Seat wars or how many seats can two people control?
May 31st, 2005, 11:33 AM
#41
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Underhill - non-status passengers who buy Y, B, M, E, or U economy fares (and I think those on standard ff awards, but I'm not certain), can reserve seats in Economy Plus on United. But for international flights, those fares are often at least $500-$1000 more than discounted fares. Tough call for 3-5 extra inches of legroom. The seat width is no different than regular Economy.
May 31st, 2005, 11:48 AM
#44
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Love United's Economy Plus, will fly that whenever possible. Least favorite economy class: Delta!
All really far people should be FORCED to buy two seats, and should be seated somewhere on the plane where they cannot block access to the aisles. Just as suitcases are weighed, the passengers should be, too. I'm not kidding about this; we've had flights made miserable by large people with the obnoxious attitudes described by the op. Sue, my sympathies to your daughter.
(How fat is too fat for a single seat? They have an algorithm for suitcases, they could have something you stand under, or in---like the security gateway---to compare your height to your weight. A BMI over a certain standard would be fair.)
All really far people should be FORCED to buy two seats, and should be seated somewhere on the plane where they cannot block access to the aisles. Just as suitcases are weighed, the passengers should be, too. I'm not kidding about this; we've had flights made miserable by large people with the obnoxious attitudes described by the op. Sue, my sympathies to your daughter.
(How fat is too fat for a single seat? They have an algorithm for suitcases, they could have something you stand under, or in---like the security gateway---to compare your height to your weight. A BMI over a certain standard would be fair.)
May 31st, 2005, 12:29 PM
#46
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I used to be a travel agent and have also worked for an airline. I've flown 1st class and business class a lot. I've also paid for quite a few coach seats to Europe. When I worked in the travel industry, the single most time consuming thing was seat assignments. A lot of times, the airlines hold back seats for airport check-in. A lot of times the seats are available at airport check-in only. I've thought for years that Southwest Airlines has the right approach to this never ending problem. First come, first serve. I've flown them twice Chicago to San Diego and it's amazing how smoothly it works. One flight my husband and I had to sit apart and on our return we made sure to get to the airport extra early. The passengers and crew alike seem happier.
That being said, we flew Air France back from Paris last month. I was in the middle section of coach with a couple next to me who should have been in a motel. And a very large family with small children behind me. The person in front of me put his/her seat back and I had to literally climb over the armrest to get out of my seat. And I'm only 5'2 and 100 pounds. Am going to Copenhagen in September and after that most uncomfortable, crowded flight, have splurged and bought a business class ticket. The airlines are now offering nonrefundable business class tickets to Europe that are about 1/2 the price of full business class. This nonrefundable business class ticket as about twice as much as the cheapest economy nonrefundable ticket.
suec1, I'm so sorry your daughter had to encounter jerks like that behind her. And I think she deserves a medal! If I were you, I'd write to both Delta and Air France to complain and see if they will compensate your daughter.
Judy
That being said, we flew Air France back from Paris last month. I was in the middle section of coach with a couple next to me who should have been in a motel. And a very large family with small children behind me. The person in front of me put his/her seat back and I had to literally climb over the armrest to get out of my seat. And I'm only 5'2 and 100 pounds. Am going to Copenhagen in September and after that most uncomfortable, crowded flight, have splurged and bought a business class ticket. The airlines are now offering nonrefundable business class tickets to Europe that are about 1/2 the price of full business class. This nonrefundable business class ticket as about twice as much as the cheapest economy nonrefundable ticket.
suec1, I'm so sorry your daughter had to encounter jerks like that behind her. And I think she deserves a medal! If I were you, I'd write to both Delta and Air France to complain and see if they will compensate your daughter.
Judy
Jun 1st, 2005, 01:56 AM
#47
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Regarding BMI - I recently read that the Phillipine police are required to have a 34" waist - no larger than this.
Regarding reclining seats - if the person behind my seat is already seated when i arrive, in sotto voce I ask them to inform me when they have reclined their seat so that I can do the same. I've never received a negative reaction. If the person forgets to inform me...they were pre-advised and it all works out.
Also, I am very careful to recline my seat before any drinks or meals are served.
Regarding reclining seats - if the person behind my seat is already seated when i arrive, in sotto voce I ask them to inform me when they have reclined their seat so that I can do the same. I've never received a negative reaction. If the person forgets to inform me...they were pre-advised and it all works out.
Also, I am very careful to recline my seat before any drinks or meals are served.
Jun 1st, 2005, 03:30 AM
#48
"All really far people should be FORCED to buy two seats, and should be seated somewhere on the plane where they cannot block access to the aisles. Just as suitcases are weighed, the passengers should be, too."
Agreed, on condition that they also give all passengers IQ and personality tests - Oh and maybe check bank balances and breath tests. I simply hate to have to sit next to stupid, intolerant, poor people who might have halitosis. I am course, am perfect, and people would queue up for the privilage of sitting near me on a plane.
Agreed, on condition that they also give all passengers IQ and personality tests - Oh and maybe check bank balances and breath tests. I simply hate to have to sit next to stupid, intolerant, poor people who might have halitosis. I am course, am perfect, and people would queue up for the privilage of sitting near me on a plane.
Jun 1st, 2005, 03:32 AM
#49
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Since you slept through most of this little adventure I'd say it was your kid who had the "interesting" flight home..too bad you were too sleepy to get up and slap the big mouths 'up side of the head...!
Jun 1st, 2005, 03:39 AM
#50
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willit,
A person's IQ and/or personality doesn't spill over into others' seat like fat does. Why should I pay for a seat and only get 1/2 because I'm small and the large person can't fit into one? That's another thing Southwest does right...they enforce the two seat rule for people who cannot fit into one seat.
A person's IQ and/or personality doesn't spill over into others' seat like fat does. Why should I pay for a seat and only get 1/2 because I'm small and the large person can't fit into one? That's another thing Southwest does right...they enforce the two seat rule for people who cannot fit into one seat.
Jun 1st, 2005, 05:37 AM
#51
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chele60,
Your earlier post didn't mention that you'd asked the slob to move a bit, so we're actually in agreement.
Once someone asks -- even if they shouldn't ideally have to -- for a little relief and they are ignored, then all niceties are off. The guy has gone from inconsiderate slob to simple jerk. I might have been pulling on the seat ... while juggling a drink.
Your earlier post didn't mention that you'd asked the slob to move a bit, so we're actually in agreement.
Once someone asks -- even if they shouldn't ideally have to -- for a little relief and they are ignored, then all niceties are off. The guy has gone from inconsiderate slob to simple jerk. I might have been pulling on the seat ... while juggling a drink.
Jun 1st, 2005, 06:29 AM
#52
Forcing large people to buy two seats is, for me, ourely a money making scheme. If there is a "spare" seat for the person to buy, then that same seat is available for the airline to leave free to give some comfort to the large person, and prevent some other passenger being inconvenienced.
If a person is large enough cause problems for other passengers, and a flight is full, then I agree that possibly they should be asked to take a later, less full flight.
My initial ironic remark was only semi in jest. At various times I have had to sit next to inconsiderate people,malodourous people, people who drank to excess. All of whom I found far more annoying than moderately large people.
My personal "nightmare" on a flight is having people in the ailse seats take sleeping medication, then block the exits throughout a long haul flight.
If a person is large enough cause problems for other passengers, and a flight is full, then I agree that possibly they should be asked to take a later, less full flight.
My initial ironic remark was only semi in jest. At various times I have had to sit next to inconsiderate people,malodourous people, people who drank to excess. All of whom I found far more annoying than moderately large people.
My personal "nightmare" on a flight is having people in the ailse seats take sleeping medication, then block the exits throughout a long haul flight.
Jun 1st, 2005, 07:55 AM
#53
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willit,
That sounds great until you consider that the large person might need to get somewhere at an appointed time.
Someone who is "moderately large" isn't a huge problem but when a person really does take up two seats and one of those seats is occupied it's time they fork out the extra bucks for everyone's comfort.
That sounds great until you consider that the large person might need to get somewhere at an appointed time.
Someone who is "moderately large" isn't a huge problem but when a person really does take up two seats and one of those seats is occupied it's time they fork out the extra bucks for everyone's comfort.
Jun 1st, 2005, 09:08 AM
#55
I am obviously not explaining myself well.
A large person wishes to board a plane. he is asked to buy an extra seat. That seat must be available for him to purchase.
200 passengers and 200 seats, it doesn't matter how many seats he "buys" - he can only have 1 - all around are squashed.
150 passengers, 200 seats - there is room to allocate large passenger a seat so that he does not infringe on somebody elses space. The payment is irrelevant.
A large person wishes to board a plane. he is asked to buy an extra seat. That seat must be available for him to purchase.
200 passengers and 200 seats, it doesn't matter how many seats he "buys" - he can only have 1 - all around are squashed.
150 passengers, 200 seats - there is room to allocate large passenger a seat so that he does not infringe on somebody elses space. The payment is irrelevant.
Jun 3rd, 2005, 12:14 PM
#56
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If it were a well-known regulation, then fat people would voluntarily identify themselves and pay in advance for the second seat, both to spare them the embarassment of having to do so at the check-in counter, and the possible inconvenience of being bumped from the flight because there was no extra seat for their arse.
Aug 10th, 2005, 08:45 AM
#57
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Just for the record...I am a really big guy...6'1" 450 lbs. I do have a gland problem even if you don't believe it but I do my best to not infringe on others rights. I do buy two seats but that is no guarranty that the airline will put both seats together...I know it is a waste of time to tell this to some folks but I like the post someone else made about trying to be polite at first...You really don't know all there is to know and you just might be missing part of the story.....
Aug 10th, 2005, 09:47 AM
#58
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On a US Air Venice to Philly flight last month many of the seatbacks did not lock, including the one of the passenger in front of me, who reclined down to my knees for the entire flight. He was also sound asleep the entire time so I never got the chance to ask him to pull it up. The only way to comfortably get out of the seat was to grab the top of his seatback, which I did freely during the flight. I understand the "right to recline," but unfortunately I find fully reclining the seatback bad for my lower back, so I recline just a little, if at all.
Oh, and that wasn't the only problem on the flight, which I complained about and got a voucher for a future flight. It pays to complain.
Oh, and that wasn't the only problem on the flight, which I complained about and got a voucher for a future flight. It pays to complain.
Aug 10th, 2005, 10:32 AM
#59
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It is against the law to sell goods or services at different prices to various people because of their height, weight, eye, hair, or skin color, age, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, fitness, or health status.
This infraction is known as "price discrimination" and has been illegal for decades. The fat guy gets a ride, period, and it's the airline's responsibility to accommodate him without inconveniencing its other customers.
This infraction is known as "price discrimination" and has been illegal for decades. The fat guy gets a ride, period, and it's the airline's responsibility to accommodate him without inconveniencing its other customers.
Aug 11th, 2005, 11:10 PM
#60
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A couple of years ago I had a very special experience returning home to Cincinnati from Paris after a Christmas/New Year's trip.
I had taken a shuttle from the Dacia Luxembourg to CDG for an 11-something am flight, but was the first one picked up and had to endure what I can only recall as a glorified unguided tour of the city as we picked up several other people, most of whom were located in the 7th arr. near the Eiffel Tower.
Once we finally arrived at the airport, I made my way to the gate indicated for my Air France/Delta flight and was surprised to find there was nobody at the gate already to check people in. (I'd asked the people in the Delta booth if the gate number was correct and been told yes.) I waited at the gate until someone finally showed up (the sign indicated the flight was for SEOUL!) and, luckily, the employee called someone else for confirmation of my flight and found that it had been moved way down the terminal.
By the time I got there and tried to check in, they had just closed the flight and told me I would be on stand-by. Being alone and never having been in that situation before, I asked what to do and they told me to wait 15 minutes and check back with them to see if a seat was available. I was polite and smiled (but terrified!) and retreated to find a place to hover with my luggage.
After the time was up (and not having heard my name called), I got in line again and was absolutely amazed when the lovely gentleman at the counter told me that they had upgraded me to Business Class! While this was probably just the luck of the draw, for me it was the best Christmas present ever.
I will always love Air France and the kind and very special service that I received on that flight.
I had taken a shuttle from the Dacia Luxembourg to CDG for an 11-something am flight, but was the first one picked up and had to endure what I can only recall as a glorified unguided tour of the city as we picked up several other people, most of whom were located in the 7th arr. near the Eiffel Tower.
Once we finally arrived at the airport, I made my way to the gate indicated for my Air France/Delta flight and was surprised to find there was nobody at the gate already to check people in. (I'd asked the people in the Delta booth if the gate number was correct and been told yes.) I waited at the gate until someone finally showed up (the sign indicated the flight was for SEOUL!) and, luckily, the employee called someone else for confirmation of my flight and found that it had been moved way down the terminal.
By the time I got there and tried to check in, they had just closed the flight and told me I would be on stand-by. Being alone and never having been in that situation before, I asked what to do and they told me to wait 15 minutes and check back with them to see if a seat was available. I was polite and smiled (but terrified!) and retreated to find a place to hover with my luggage.
After the time was up (and not having heard my name called), I got in line again and was absolutely amazed when the lovely gentleman at the counter told me that they had upgraded me to Business Class! While this was probably just the luck of the draw, for me it was the best Christmas present ever.
I will always love Air France and the kind and very special service that I received on that flight.
