PatrickLondon

I'm no expert, but I don't have a lot of trouble (once I'd been told about those old BBC test questions for announcers - Milngavie and Kircudbright; I'l leave you to guess). Pronunciation for names derived from Gaelic is pretty regular, I think: the problem is that the spelling rules are different from the Anglo-Saxon equivalents, and it probably helps to recognise what might be separate words (Craig, Ben, Eilean) or descriptive add-ons (Mhor/more, Beag) in Gaelic and therefore what might be the "core" word that governs the stress.

At the last election, there seemed to be much joshing among English reporters and commentators as to who could possibly pronounce the new (Gaelic) name for the Western Isles constituency: Na Eileanan-an-Iar. But if you've learnt any foreign language you start by recognising that the allocation of particular spelling in English to particular sounds isn't the be-all and end-all.

It's the local corruptions and elisions, particularly in English, that are really inconsistent.

doonhamer

Mouseireid - Talisker is a Skye whisky [from the only distillery on the island]and has a wonderful smoky quality.

janis

PatrickLondon: I often use Milngavie and Kircudbright (and Leicester and Cholmondeley) as examples of "two countries seperated by a common language" during my travel seminars.

As for single malts - I haven't yet acquired a taste for many of the island ones. I guess they are too peaty for me -- The Macallan is my fav. But Bowmore could certainly switch me over . . . .

twina49

After visiting Scotland in May (by the way - absolutely LOVED it), we were wondering if the word "Drum" has any particular meaning? Seemed as if a lot of words began with Drum or had Drum in them (Drummond Castle, etc.).

Daisy54

Further up the thread, dschoening asked about a pronunciaton guide for Scottish places names - I've found this site to be helpful - http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/pronounce.htm

I looked it up when we were planning to visit Glasgow and I needed to know how to pronounce "Buchleuch" since we were visiting a site on that street and if we took a taxi, I wanted the driver to actually know where to take us. As it turned out, we walked.

hopingtotravel

My goodness, I didn't realize I'd started something!
Now you know why my Scottie dog is named Talisker.
As an aside, we spent three nights at the above-mentioned Craigallachie (sp) and loved it.
We also toured McCallan and I think my husband would agree on its smoothness.

my2cents

What a great website, Daisy54 -- now we have a chance of not mangling some of the place names!

LAwoman

Thanks for the site, Daisy54. It says that the stress should be on the second syllable for both Aberdeen and Inverness (see Braemar). Sounds funny to me - can that be right?

KT

Hmmm..maybe they can't count. The stress in Aberdeen and Inverness is on the final syllable. The most commmon error is to stress the first syllable. But the second syllable? That's pretty hard to do.

AnselmAdorne

zippo, I certainly spelled that name incorrectly. The Canadian place is spelled Craigellachie, according to Natural Resources Canada. (I also found it spelled with one "l" and with an "a" in various places, but I take the government website as being the horse's mouth.)

Anselm

sheila

Mousireid, Talisker is from Skye and is even more seaweedy than Laphroig. You're quite right to suggest that Bunnahabhainn is much smoother.

I don't think there is sufficient even-ness of pronunciation to have a set or rules in either Gaelic or Scots.

Is that how Craigalachie is spelt in Canada, Anselm? It's almost spelt the way zippo spelt it in Scots Ah, I sea your later post-that IS how it's spelt in Scots, tho' zippo was close.

There are 2 Craigellachies, one is the small hamlet of that name and the other is a big rock, up near Rothiemurchus (emphasis on the 2nd and third syllables), from when comes the motto og the Cla Grant (see the front of the MacAllan bottle. "Stand fast, Craigellachie!". And who remembers Grant's Standfast whisky (not a malt)


Drum, in Gaelic, means "back of" but not in Drummond where it's just a name

LAwoman

Sheila, what is the difference between Gaelic & Scots? Sorry to be ignorant but thought they were basically the same.

laverendrye

Gaelic and Scots are very different languages. Gaelic is a Celtic language (along with Irish, Manx, Welsh, and Breton); Scots is a Germanic language in the same language family (some would say a variant of) English.

laverendrye

Gaelic and Scots are very different languages. Gaelic is a Celtic language (along with Irish, Manx, Welsh, and Breton); Scots is a Germanic language in the same language family (some would say a variant of) as English.

sheila

I agree with lavernderdrye (twice). But Scots is not homogenous, and has many variations (like Gaelic doesn't, I hear you ask).

Differences? Here's an example. the Gaelic for "church" is "eaglais" (eekleesh) and the Scots is Kirk.

What's slightly amusing about that is that I was going to use "dust" as an example, for reasons which will be come obvious. The Scots for dust is stour(stoor) as the Danish is stoer, pronounced the same way- did you know the Danish for vacuum cleaner is stoersooker?); so i went to look up the Gaelic, and, would you believe, it's "stur"!!

AnselmAdorne

It's interesting, Sheila, how close "eaglais" (or eekleesh) is to église in French. There were, of course, very close ties between Scotland and France over the centuries, so one could expect some migration of words between the two.

Anselm

AnselmAdorne

Hmmm, on further thought, the Scots had a close relationship with Flanders, as well. The original Anselm Adorne, a merchant trader of Bruges, died in Scotland in the service of the Scottish royal family in 1485 or thereabouts.

Anselm

KT

I don't know about eaglais/église, but it seems like it could predate the Auld Alliance and date back to the introduction of the Roman Catholic church: the Latin ecclesia, which in turn is derived from Greek.

By the way, for Scots fans, I was interested to find recently in Sweden that "good" in Swedish is "bra." I guess those braw Scottish lads have Viking antecedents.