I'm losing sleep over planning for college graduation travel with niece (23) & nephew (25). Neither have ever traveled outside of the U.S. before, so this is a big deal and they have no idea what to do. I'll take my niece over first to Ireland, then we'll meet up with my nephew and his mother in either London or Paris, depending on where I take my nephew for his trip. I'm wondering what my nephew would like more, Scotland or Switzerland. I was thinking of a train tour in either place, but I would consider driving in Scotland. The Swiss train tour looks excellent as is. I'm looking into festivals, concerts, events in either place that my help direct our planning. We'll be going about April or May. I've taken their brother and sister over, and they were a bit overwhelmed by all the churches, so I know not to overdue too many of those. I was also 15 years younger. I'll be with my niece for 17 days in Ireland before meeting up with the others in London & Paris. Then I'm alone with my nephew for 10-ish days. This will be my 10th trip to Europe, but I would like to experience new things too.

I think I'm stuck on the ages, since they're so much younger and I'm so much not younger. The budget isn't too much of an issue, but it's not unlimited.

No way at all to decide for you / him. He is not that young so should be able to offer some ideas of his own -- maybe get a couple of guidebook and you and he sit down and look over some of the options and decide together. Both countries are magical - What time of ear is the trip?

A 'train tour' really isn't a thing in Scotland, so plan on driving or if you didn't want to drive, maybe take a Rabbies tour for a few days combined with a few day in both Edinburgh and Glasgow. https://www.rabbies.com/en?gad_sourc...hoC7uAQAvD_BwE

The Swiss train tour looks excellent as is.

What train tour are you referring to? I'm currently in Switzerland and have been visiting routinely for about 25 years. You don't need a 'tour' of any kind. Swiss trains/buses are easy to navigate on your own, so there's no need to pay $$$$$$ for so called 'scenic' train rides as you can take the same routes using regional trains and save yourself mega bucks.

What interests your nephew? Does he like to hike? Does he like cities? Does he like the mountains? Is he into adventure sports?

Knowing this will help us make suggestions.

Do keep in mind that Switzerland is eye-wateringly expensive. Keeping the kid fed might cost a lot more than you think

Yes - you can definitely do Scotland more economically than Switzerland

How are their language skills? If this is the first time out of the US would they be comfortable in a country where they don’t have much fluency in any local language? Of course there are plenty of people who have English but it might be easier in a country where they speak more or less the same language.

That wouldn't be an issue in either Scotland (well, maybe a little ) or Switzerland.

My partner and I have traveled through a lot of Europe and only know English and have managed well in our travels. So, the "kids" know a little of Spanish, but that's not in my wheelhouse for them at this time. I'm planning the whole trip since they will be in school and expect all the arrangements to be made on their behalf. The other issue is that there are train tours through both countries offered by Vacations by Rail and they're not that expensive. I am not a tour guide. I am a hobby travel planner. My nephew is athletic and will probably like anything a normal, male 25 yo would like, which is:
A bit of hiking, a castle, a Guinses, a Whiskey, a football (soccer) or rugby game, the Highland Games, see a lot, pack the day, night life, Zermatt

I would like:
St Moritz, Montreux, Zermatt, good food, museums, plays, events, leisurely travel, not adventurous after dark

Couple of notes: My partner is not coming with us on this journey. Also, I don't drink. I can handle waiting on one drink in a bar, but dislike hanging out in a bar while others drink.

A note of warning: Most people on this forum are strongly committed to independent travel, so you might not get helpful input about the tours you are considering.

FWIW: It sounds like YOU prefer Switzerland. Public transportation in Switzerland is excellent, so you really shouldn't need a tour unless that's your preference. My impression -- I'm no expert! -- is that the April to May timeframe can be a bit tricky in parts of Switzerland, with various closures as glaciers melt as summer approaches. And honestly, I found St. Moritz vastly over-rated, thought the area itself is glorious.

I loved my time in Switzerland, but I don't think of "a Guinses, a Whiskey, a football (soccer) or rugby game, the Highland Games, see a lot, pack the day, night life" when I think of Switzerland -- sounds more like Scotland to me. I could be wrong!

OK -- train tours of Scotland are not a great idea. Really not! For one, unlike Switzerland, the trains don't go to all the most scenic places. But most important the target customers for Vacations by Rail and similar are not 25 year old recent college grads. If you booked one of those you can almost guarantee he'd be the youngest person by about 25 or 30 years. Mostly because older folks can afford them and because they (in general) are less active.

If you are set on some sort of train 'tour' Scotland is not the best place for that.

" . . .a Guinses, a Whiskey . . . "

OK you likely know Guinness is Irish - not Scottish (though if that is your drink of choice it is available everywhere). But Whiskey i.e. 'e'whiskey is Irish or American. In Scotland, its Whisky (sans the e) - as in Scotch Whisky whether blends (like Johnnie Walker/Famous Grouse) or single malts (like Macallan, Glenfiddich, Laphroaig, whatever)

I personally think a late April/May trip to Scotland would be fantastic. You could spend maybe three days in Edinburgh, then rent a car for 5 or 6 days to tour around some of the Scenic Highlands and west coast, and finish with a couple of days in Glasgow. The middle part could be self-drive or one of Rabbies tours (Rabbies is exclusively small groups -16 or fewer people in a mini bus - and they attract all ages). Doing the tour also means you wouldn't have to be the 'designated driver' on pub nights.

This is some terrific input. I was worried about the weather in Scotland in April / May, and while I know be glorious, it sounds like a good time to travel there. Nothing like reading about "Whisky" while drinking my morning coffee.

I was worried about the ages of the travelers on these rail tours. Nothing says boring more than being on a tour with people 40-60 years older than you! Yes, I was hoping for a break from driving around the U.K. again. I just did it in July, and honestly, we didn't stop or wander as we had envisioned. We literally just drove from point to point. That took a lot of effort. But I can rise to the challenge, so long as I get good GPS service. It's hard to find paper driving maps anymore. And thankfully, we get full auto insurance on the car rental. Always!

As for independent travel, again, we just spent 45 days traveling in Europe "independently" and it was fantastic, but the planning took a lot out of me too. I was hoping to catch a break with a tour. I'll start with finding events in the areas we're planning to be at, then schedule a plan around these dates and locations.

I'll get planning.

In rural parts of Scotland a GPS is fine but don't rely on it 100%. Have a map too. Not a fold up paper map but a UK road atlas - which are are still easy to find. Don't buy one at home - wait til you are in Scotland and it will be much cheaper.

Something like this - (which would coast at least twice that in the States) https://www.waterstones.com/book/gre.../9780008652944 .

They are even cheaper in garages

I'm buying it now because it really helps with the planning. I had one for England this year and never got my husband to open it. Ugh.

Wow, I think I would find this really challenging. I was wondering if something like a guided walking holiday at one of the country houses from HF Holidays might be an idea. Your nephew could join the more arduous walks with the younger, more conditioned hikers, and you could do the more moderate hikes. You'd have some time apart and could meet other people. There's a house in the Scottish Highlands (Fort Williams) that could be wonderful, but when I looked at the itineraries, all the walks seem quite long. However, they have country houses all over the England, like the Lake District, the Peak District, Cornwall, Yorkshire, so many gorgeous walking places. Best of luck planning! https://www.hfholidays.co.uk/

Terrific idea! Thank you!! Different levels of activities, he's with people his age and it doesn't knock me out of my Sox (get the reference Chicago Girl?). I would also consider a small Rabbis tour, as Jannis suggested.

I looked into events and their dates. There's a Highland Game in Greenock and a Beltane Fire Festival in our time period that he would enjoy, but that will take some planning to get there, but it's doable.

It just can't be me, all day, every day. We'll need other people and activities to make it more fun.

There is a Games in Gourock but AFAIK not in Greenock. They are nearby towns. There are direct trains from central Glasgow to Gourock in under 40 minutes (Gourock Fort Matilda station is a 2 or 3 minute walk from the Games)

Yes, it could be an idea to do an HF Holiday. Though I don't expect there'll be many folks in their 20's. The hikers I often see on my vacations appear middle-aged, but still incredibly fit for longer "walks." I'm really curious what your nephew thinks about the idea, and how he'd feel being around a bunch of older, married walkers and tourists. (I have a 23-year-old nephew, and while he's a smart, kind young man, I imagine we'd be sick of each other's company with too much time together. Our interests and energy levels are just too different. I imagine he'd be game for a hike, but likely wouldn't be as charmed by the countryside as I am with my interest in British history.)

The scenery in the highlands certainly is dramatic. I'm not sure it's my kind of hiking, as I find I prefer the landscapes of the Peak District or the Cotswolds. I didn't enjoy the Lake District hiking as much, but I've never seen the Highlands. I prefer a more gentle, rolling terrain, with grass and sheep. I think the house in the Yorkshire Dales in Malham (Newfield Hall) would be really nice, too. Near Pateley Bridge, Haworth (the Bronte Parsonage and hike to Top Withens), and so many other places. The Peak House would put you near Haddon Hall, the plague village of Eyam, Chatsworth, and so many great walks. I suppose it's all a bit of a compromise, but I was thinking on days when you didn't want to hike, or when weather was crummy, what would you do on those days.

If you're traveling from London up to Scotland, maybe look at the Caledonian Sleeper. I've never taken it, but I've heard of this as an option.

Please update us on what you decide, and best of luck planning!

I am not going to post actual suggestions in both countries but have been to both Scotland and Switzerland a lot of times in my 30's. I have never been a drinker so bars and pubs are not my thing but I love to get out and look at the scenery (I've taken just about every Rabbie's tour). I am not a hiker so this might have something to do with where I'd go but Scotland has my heart, and it never fails to disappoint. I always found different things to see and do and would go back in a heartbeat. Switzerland is alright and I just got back from there a few weeks ago. Yes, its scenery is pretty, but Scotland wins in my book. You really couldn't go wrong if funds aren't a problem with either and I wouldn't let language be the deciding factor. Good luck in deciding.

Thank you.

I think returning to Switzerland was my wish, but you're right, he might like Scotland better. Everyone who says, "ask him", doesn't get the concept of someone who has never left the surrounding area of their home, other than to / from college. They really don't know what they like. Every other niece and nephew I have given a guide book to in order to help plan our trips has never, ever, lifted a finger with a recommendation or suggestion or even returned the book! So, if I leave it up to him or them to plan, it won't get done. Besides, I really do enjoy doing it. I'll present the plan to them, my niece for our Ireland trip and my nephew for our Scotland trip, and they can make suggestions after that. There are many people out there that don't want to lift a finger to plan and really just want it planned for them.

I've honestly received so many useful tips on this site. I follow advise when it fits the scenarios. I'm grateful for all the help planning. I never would have known about Montreux if it wasn't for this group. We also tried a new hotel in Brussels this summer based on a recommendation, Fleur de Ville. It was lovely, and the best breakfast we had in Europe, ever.