historytraveler

I've found that codeshare's will usually check
your bags through. Just ask nicely.

Kristina

Convincing arguments for both the plane and the train.

More to consider...

We typically don't check bags but I I've flown through LHR enough to know what a nightmare it CAN be that a 2.5 hr connection makes me nervous enough to book the longer layover if we fly.

We have a credit card which will get us into the Priority Pass Lounges at LHR and there are a couple in both T3 and T5 so if we take the 11:40 we can hang out there.

That said, I looked at train tickets today for the latest date out (in Feb, August is not available yet) and two tickets, with a "two together" discount, cost about half of what two plane tickets would cost, including getting into London. And that's not even with any sale fares (I think). So that adds to the train argument, saving us about $130. But again, worth the hassle?

If we land around 13:00, will it really take 1.5 hrs to get into Edinburgh, near the castle, especially if we don't have to wait for our bags? Isn't there a tram which goes from the airport into the city?

Sue- Thanks for your thoughts. You might have missed the details in all the posts here, but I actually have more than 6 days, I have 8 nights total to plan in Scotland, not including the overnight train we plan on taking back to London. And while stopping in York is a fine idea, we already have 2 nights booked at a hotel in Edinburgh, so I'd like to make it all the way there on the first day.

Gardyloo-we are flying on BA metal nonstop from Boston. We will be on the East Coast for 4 days before flying to London for a family reunion. The flight back from London is also nonstop to LAX. It was too good of a deal to pass up. So if the flight to Edinburgh is in the same terminal, we would still have to go through Immigration and Customs, and then back though security to get to the next gate?

Gordon_R

>>If we land around 13:00, will it really take 1.5 hrs to get into Edinburgh, near the castle, especially if we don't have to wait for our bags?<<

It won't - that's an inflated estimate. More like 45-60 minutes max. Edinburgh airport is small and manageable compared with the likes of Heathrow.

>>Isn't there a tram which goes from the airport into the city?<<

Yes - it takes approx. 30 mins to Princes St. There's also an Airlink bus service.

Sue_xx_yy

Thank you Kristina I realize I may have read your posts too hastily to get the proper picture. I might have gotten confused as I tend to think in number of nights, not number of days, as a 'day' when traveling can be hard to define in terms of time, whereas a night has a clear definition, one needs a bed (or seat on an overnight airline flight or train) to stay in no matter what one plans to do in the hours previous.

<i> you can go to the BA service desk in the arrivals area and they can probably switch you to the later flight; I've found them quite reasonable in situations like this. </i>

Gardyloo, I defer to your FF judgement, but would this not be stretching it if Kristina is traveling on separate tickets? A through-ticket is nearly always more expensive than the cost of two separate tickets, even without a change fee, and I have always assumed that's because the airline builds in for - okay, more profit, but also the overhead cost of their doing just as you suggest, rebooking pax in the case of the occasional missed connection. You might have been lucky as well because of your FF status. For the deep discount herd, I wouldn't count on any favours from the gate agents.

Kristina, we've traveled on separate tickets using London as a hub several times, but only with an overnight or two built in between, because of the financial risk if we miss the next flight, especially on the return. It doesn't happen that often but flights are late betimes. (Twice, my flights have been delayed taking off by many hours.) This was one reason why I suggested only going as far as York, since you would only be on the hook for replacing the London-York train if you were late arriving. The next day's York-Edinburgh train would be much less problematic. But I am a worry wort. BTW as your official worry wort I am relieved you have your last night booked in London.

Best of luck, enjoy Scotland.

Sue_xx_yy

<i> So if the flight to Edinburgh is in the same terminal, we would still have to go through Immigration and Customs, and then back though security to get to the next gate? </i>

You may or may not have to go through security (most likely not, but Gardyloo will know for sure) but most definitely either way you will go through Immigration on after landing at LHR (and maybe customs if you get selected) because London will be your POE (point of entry) to the UK. The London-Edinburgh flight will be classified as domestic so you will be delivered to that part of the Edinburgh terminal and will just immediately exit the airport once you have your bags.

Kristina

Sue, I too am a worrier, hence all this micro-planning nearly 8 months in advance. That's exactly why we are in London the night before departure. In fact, buying the US-London tickets without other plans were a stretch for me, but I know how expensive summer tickets can get and I jumped. When I bought them, I didn't know where we'd be going from there, only that we'd be going <i>somewhere</i>.
Buying the Tattoo tickets locked us in to Edinburgh for those days and now here we are. Until then, everything I'd booked had been refundable.

I certainly don't like having split tickets, but that's the only option I have now (or take the train). And that's why I'm wary of taking the 9:15 flight, especially if our arrival into LHR gets delayed in any way. If we had a through ticket, I know they'd rebook us for sure, but without it, even though the tickets are on the same airline, they really don't have to. OTOH, maybe I am worrying too much.

Gordon-thanks, we are going to do our best not to check bags on the way in. An hour would get us to the hotel by 2-ish. Still, I'm torn about which flight. I sure would like to get there earlier.

Gardyloo

If your bags are through-checked (ask at Boston) then you'd go through immigration at LHR (T5 from BOS) and bag claim/customs at EDI. International bags arrive at a different carousel than those originating inside the UK, and you'd walk through the (probably unattended) "green door" - nothing to declare, badda bing.

If you're checking bags I probably would take the later flight just to be safe. If BA doesn't through-check you'd have to go "landside" and claim and re-check bags, and things get busy at Heathrow in the morning. If you just have carry-ons, the process will be expedited and you can opt for the earlier plane.

Kristina

My flight has an on time arrival rating of 83% with an average delay of 12 minutes according to flightstats.com

If we don't check bags, and the average holds, we'd still have 2 hours to get to the next flight. If we're in the same terminal and all we need to do is get through immigration, then I think I may opt for the earlier flight.

FWIW, British Airway's own website would allow me to book that ticket BOS-LHR-EDI on the 9:15 flight as well.

BTW, for anyone looking for a check ticket to London in the summer, it looks like they are out there again. My route, for which I paid $508, went up to $1200 right after I bought it. Today it's $657. In AUGUST.

PalenQ

2 hours seems fine but if you miss the earlier flight can you then transfer to the later flight without huge costs?

Immigration IME can see long long lines but two hours seems nice - planes often land early now too -by fudging and inflating the normal times I think.

Sue_xx_yy

I've been rechecking the separate ticket policies thing.

According to this flyertalk thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...ickets-14.html

AA's policy is to treat oneworld customers on separate tickets (i.e. both tickets are for oneworld member airlines) as if they were on a through-ticket, including re-routing in the event of a Irrops.

BUT as of 1 June 2016 Oneworld changed their policy not to require through-connection and misconnect protection for separate tickets of member airlines; most airlines including BA have already stopped offering these services to oneworld alliance passengers services, and flyertalk warns that AA may stop doing so at any time. See above link.

As a flyertalk user noted,

<i> Just as an FYI - based on postings in the BA and OW fora, BA and CX are being very clear that they will not protect customers on separate connecting tickets in IRROPS situations. </i>

Kristina

Sue- Hmmm, good info to consider. But I can't tell from that if it's ALL separate tickets they won't cover, or only those from another carrier. Both my tickets will be on BA.
I did find this in the thread "As of 1st June BA no longer accepts through checking of baggage even between BA flights on separate tickets with new updated Oneworld rules" though I don't plan on checking bags.

Today I was looking at the domestic flights on BA and they have two tiers, Basic and Plus. Plus is 10 pounds more. With that you get a checked bag AND, on the day of travel you can change your flight for "free until 1 hour before departure". With Basic, there is a fee and you have to pay any fare difference.
So, might this not protect me? If my flight is VERY delayed out of Boston, I might be able to re-book before even leaving the US. This is, of course, assuming there are seats on the next flight available.

historytraveler

BA is generally very good at notifying you if your flight is significantly delayed and as you suggested, you can rebook before departure. Most flights are delayed at their departure point. I would definitely pay the extra £ 10. Also note that Sue's information only states that the airline is not obliged to check your luggage through, It doesn't state that they won't. If both tickets are with BA, I think your chances are very good that you will be able to check bags through to EDI. I've never had a problem but, then, there are no guarantees. Such things are often at the discretion of the agent in charge.

Kristina

Historytraveler- the question isn't about checking bags through, it's if they will re-book us without a fee if we miss our connecting flight because the tickets are not connected and thus they are not obligated to do so. In theory, we could be left without a ticket at all if we miss the flight.

historytraveler

Then I suggest you go to the British Airway's website, plug in Information, delayed or cancelled flights, then rebook/refund. It should answer your questions.

Sue_xx_yy

<i> on the day of travel you can change your flight for "free until 1 hour before departure". </i>

Kristina, I really appreciate the chance to work this issue through together, because it is always helpful when parsing the arcane world of fare rules, for one's logic to be checked by someone else. I'm hoping you are right and I am wrong, because:

I am afraid that the protection is useless for you because the phrase implies that you have to be at the flight connections desk at an hour before your originally scheduled EDI flight is due to depart - i.e, no later than 08:15 (actually more like 08:10 so the agent at the flight connections desk has time to rebook you.) If you could get to the connections desk in LHR by 08:15, you could make the 09:15 flight in the first place.

The rule you cite seems to mean only that you can change to a later flight, but only under circumstances where you have the luxury of being able to choose to go on a later flight, not the circumstances where circumstances have forced you to re-route to a later flight.

Supposedly AA, which is BA's partner in Oneworld, will treat separate tickets <i> within Oneworld </i> as a through itinerary. (I'm guessing this was to facilitate people who booked reward tickets, then bought a second, revenue ticket to make a more complex journey than that covered by the reward.) According to the various experiences of other people, the 'through itinerary' included not just the services of onward checked baggage handling, but protections relating to misconnections.

One other thing: one reason I have never as a leisure traveler put too much stock in 'protections' is that in the event of misconnection, they only guarantee to put you on the next <i> available </i> flight, not necessarily the next <i> scheduled </i> flight. If one is a low-status flyer, and I and spouse are, and the next scheduled flight were to be heavily booked, I didn't count on us being rerouted on the next scheduled flight. I figured, to heck with it, if there's a possibility we can't get rerouted for many hours, we might as well bite the bullet, and only purchase our next flight for a departure hours apart in the first place.

Sue_xx_yy

BTW, here's an example of when that rule can help:

We booked a second ticket LHR-NCE returning CDG-LHR. The second leg was scheduled to depart at 13:00.

We got to CDG in plenty of time, so much so that I asked the check-in agent if we could go on an earlier flight - obviously, for one that same day. There are tons of flights CDG-LHR, in fact one was leaving at 12:00. It was still only about 10:15 when we made our request. Basically we were asking to be flown standby on the 12:00, but if not, to stick to our original flight. Agent determined there was availability, and we were bumped forward to the 12:00 flight, no extra charge.

Of course, it suited both parties for this to happen. We enjoyed the convenience, and as for BA, they filled otherwise empty seats on the 12:00, and had a tad longer time to try and find customers for the seats we'd vacated on the 13:00. Note though that the circumstances were not dire, but only one of convenience - for both parties.

Kristina

Good points Sue. Perhaps we should book the later flight as a precaution and then see if we can change to the earlier one on arrival. Even assuming we can change without a penalty by buying the Plus ticket, if we book the earlier flight and miss it, I don't want to get stuck on the "next available" flight which could be 8pm or something like that.

Ugh. It's just that sitting in an airport for 4-5 hours <i>waiting</i> when you could be out in the place you are trying to <i>get to</i> is torture.

PalenQ

always error on the side of caution - when you need your plane to be on time it may be the odd time it is not.

Have a proper tea in Heathrow while waiting.

janisj

I have flown several times (at least 6 or 7) on an unprotected/un linked ticket between London and Scotland. Usually because I changed plans after booking my transatlantic flights. I don't recommend doing so, but it has always worked out OK.

Unless your incoming flight is seriously delayed you should be fine. But in the last few years I've found BA less and less 'accommodating' for instance not interlining with AA on a separate booking even though they are partners.

Sue_xx_yy

Kristina, the hard part is that Murphy's law will apply. If you book the later flight, your first flight will be on time (and Gardyloo is right, this is probably going to be the case.) If you book the 09:15, there will be a problem, sigh.

I've been rethinking your train option. Since you won't have checked bags, let's assume you get in on time at 06:50; let's also assume you are cleared formalities by 08:00. Okay, you get on the inter-terminal train (it only takes 5 mins to go to terminal 1-2-3, the 20 minutes journey on the website already takes into account the maximum 15 minute waiting time.) Okay, so you then hop on the tube for King's Cross station. It will be a peak fare so take that into account. You'll arrive around 09:30, say.

Here's the interesting part. According to

https://www.thetrainline.com/train-times/off-peak

you can travel on ANY off-peak train on the date shown on the ticket. So you could make a train at 10:00 arriving Edinburgh 14:20. The 09:30 train doesn't arrive much earlier, so no point in sweating it for that one. If you are late, you have lots of options - trains leaving almost every half hour - right up until 16:00 (rush hour peak.)

So you could book the 09:15 flight and only if that falls through and you can't get rerouted on a decent option for no charge, you can go downtown and buy a walkup, but off-peak time, train fare for most of the day. Even off-peak, walku fares are not especially cheap (the site I linked to is quoting around 120 pounds each, as opposed to 66 pounds in advance) but it's only an 'in case of' option which you may not have to exercise. But you might feel better knowing you have a backup plan in place.