Scotland-Looking for itinerary advice for 9 day trip
Dec 3rd, 2016, 10:28 AM
#21
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Yes, and more recently than you most likely.>
why are you down on night trains -what turned you off?
And many folks do not care for night trains.
<Yes, and more recently than you most likely.>
No doubt and the trains one would think would be even better today than in the 1920s!
Cheers!
why are you down on night trains -what turned you off?
And many folks do not care for night trains.
<Yes, and more recently than you most likely.>
No doubt and the trains one would think would be even better today than in the 1920s!
Cheers!
Dec 3rd, 2016, 12:22 PM
#22
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk/galle...-rail-journeys
The East Coast Line was named one of Britain's 10 best rail journeys by The Guardian but as janis says you will have even more scenic train rides in Scotland -with the top 3 in the Guardian being in Scotland - if you do not want to rent a car you can still see the wonders of Scotland. Again not against cars but if you do not want to drive and just laze back and look at scenery out of the train window...
The East Coast Line was named one of Britain's 10 best rail journeys by The Guardian but as janis says you will have even more scenic train rides in Scotland -with the top 3 in the Guardian being in Scotland - if you do not want to rent a car you can still see the wonders of Scotland. Again not against cars but if you do not want to drive and just laze back and look at scenery out of the train window...
Dec 3rd, 2016, 12:30 PM
#23
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Should have said the East Coast Line Newcastle to Edinburgh - about half of it - the rest is so-so but for non-jaded veteran tourists any part of Britain to me is nice - lots of pastoral scenes -sheep everywhere. And yes glimpses of the Durham Cathedral and tony school next to it are awesome - sit on the east side of the train for best views.
I'd take the night train one way and maybe get off at York for a few hours on day trains back to London.
again I have taken night trains a zillion times and the Caledonian Sleeper was perhaps the most comfy I've taken in compartments and all around vs those in Europe- I'd pay extra for a first-class private compartment.
I am curious as to why janis would not take them - and again night trains ain't for light sleepers. I took it to Inverness then the Kyle of Lochlash line (in Guardian's most scenic list) to Kyle and a bus to Skye- bused around Skye then took ferry to Maillag from Skye and West Highlands Line (usually called the most scenic rr line in Britain - to Ft William from where you can get the overnight train to London too.
Along with Edinburgh that routing by train and bus would be sweet for just 9 days.
I'd take the night train one way and maybe get off at York for a few hours on day trains back to London.
again I have taken night trains a zillion times and the Caledonian Sleeper was perhaps the most comfy I've taken in compartments and all around vs those in Europe- I'd pay extra for a first-class private compartment.
I am curious as to why janis would not take them - and again night trains ain't for light sleepers. I took it to Inverness then the Kyle of Lochlash line (in Guardian's most scenic list) to Kyle and a bus to Skye- bused around Skye then took ferry to Maillag from Skye and West Highlands Line (usually called the most scenic rr line in Britain - to Ft William from where you can get the overnight train to London too.
Along with Edinburgh that routing by train and bus would be sweet for just 9 days.
Dec 3rd, 2016, 02:00 PM
#24
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Historytraveler- On the Caledonian Sleeper there is a dining car and no changing of trains, both from Fort William and Inverness. Look at https://www.sleeper.scot/
janisj- The hotel points are at the Sheraton in Edinburgh. I think this is fairly close to the castle, no?
For the record, I am not interested in Loch Ness or the Jacobite train.
But yes, Skye holds fascination, though not if it will be ridiculously crowded. But how "crowded" is it? Are we talking "Amalfi Coast in Summer" crowded or just "more than the other 11 months of the year but still manageable"? Because the thing is, we rarely can travel when it's NOT high season. My husband is a teacher and has summers off. We'll never be able to go in May for example, because that's not when he has time off. So is it better to go in August when we can, or to not go at all?
PalenQ- Thank you for the suggestions. We plan on standard class for the train because the only difference between that and first class would be that we'd have two single compartments instead of sharing 1 with two bunks. The compartments are otherwise identical and I don't think it's worth the 50% premium. The timing of the overnight train works best on the way back to London, rather than taking it TO Edinburgh. If we were to do that, we'd have to wait until 11:30pm in London after an overnight flight for that train.
Gardyloo- I may have fallen into the trap of "you MUST go to Skye", yes, though it does indeed look lovely. I am not opposed to considering Mull and I will investigate it further. But please see my question above to Janisj about how crowded it is and let me know what you think.
To all- The questions I asked did not pertain to IF I should take the overnight train. We want to. If we have a horrible time, I'll make sure to come back and let you know so you can say "I told you so".
As for London, yes, the hotel is can be cancelled, but I think we'd like the day and a half there nonetheless. We spent a week there 2 years ago, but there are a couple of museums I'd like to see and we like the city. Plus, if we fly back, we don't get to take the overnight train!
And for the record, it's most likely less expensive for us to take the train back than to fly plus have another night in the hotel. Two tickets on the train (with two together rail card) are 158 pounds for both of us. I don't think we could fly for just that unless we lucked on a sale, then still add a night in a hotel somewhere.
So back to the original questions...what to do between Day 3 and Day 9? If it makes more sense to come back from Inverness because of the car thing, we can do that, though if we concentrate on the area around Glencoe and the Isle of Mull, then that might not make sense which then leaves me with the Fort William car question.
I do like the idea of Callander and if we pick up a car in Edinburgh, we can go to Stirling Castle on the way there. With that option though, we would definitely need an itinerary which ends in Inverness.
janisj- The hotel points are at the Sheraton in Edinburgh. I think this is fairly close to the castle, no?
For the record, I am not interested in Loch Ness or the Jacobite train.
But yes, Skye holds fascination, though not if it will be ridiculously crowded. But how "crowded" is it? Are we talking "Amalfi Coast in Summer" crowded or just "more than the other 11 months of the year but still manageable"? Because the thing is, we rarely can travel when it's NOT high season. My husband is a teacher and has summers off. We'll never be able to go in May for example, because that's not when he has time off. So is it better to go in August when we can, or to not go at all?PalenQ- Thank you for the suggestions. We plan on standard class for the train because the only difference between that and first class would be that we'd have two single compartments instead of sharing 1 with two bunks. The compartments are otherwise identical and I don't think it's worth the 50% premium. The timing of the overnight train works best on the way back to London, rather than taking it TO Edinburgh. If we were to do that, we'd have to wait until 11:30pm in London after an overnight flight for that train.
Gardyloo- I may have fallen into the trap of "you MUST go to Skye", yes, though it does indeed look lovely. I am not opposed to considering Mull and I will investigate it further. But please see my question above to Janisj about how crowded it is and let me know what you think.
To all- The questions I asked did not pertain to IF I should take the overnight train. We want to. If we have a horrible time, I'll make sure to come back and let you know so you can say "I told you so".
As for London, yes, the hotel is can be cancelled, but I think we'd like the day and a half there nonetheless. We spent a week there 2 years ago, but there are a couple of museums I'd like to see and we like the city. Plus, if we fly back, we don't get to take the overnight train!
And for the record, it's most likely less expensive for us to take the train back than to fly plus have another night in the hotel. Two tickets on the train (with two together rail card) are 158 pounds for both of us. I don't think we could fly for just that unless we lucked on a sale, then still add a night in a hotel somewhere.
So back to the original questions...what to do between Day 3 and Day 9? If it makes more sense to come back from Inverness because of the car thing, we can do that, though if we concentrate on the area around Glencoe and the Isle of Mull, then that might not make sense which then leaves me with the Fort William car question.
I do like the idea of Callander and if we pick up a car in Edinburgh, we can go to Stirling Castle on the way there. With that option though, we would definitely need an itinerary which ends in Inverness.
Dec 3rd, 2016, 03:14 PM
#25
<i>Gardyloo- I may have fallen into the trap of "you MUST go to Skye", yes, though it does indeed look lovely. I am not opposed to considering Mull and I will investigate it further. But please see my question above to Janisj about how crowded it is and let me know what you think.</i>
I hesitate to use the word "crowded," because it's never crowded like, e.g., Old Faithful in Yellowstone or Yosemite Valley on a summer day. But I suspect - because of its size and relatively "unknown" status - that you'd find Mull much more "empty" feeling, with fewer cars and tour buses (which can drive you mad in the Highlands) in your way. No promises, of course.
Here's an imaginary map showing a possible route starting and ending in Fort William. Note the parts on Mull are purely speculative and really meant just to illustrate possibilities. It's not entirely "off the beaten path," but parts are certainly less beaten than Skye in August. https://goo.gl/maps/VHFu1hYaXso
Features:
- Fort William to Tobermory via the Ardnamurchan peninsula, along gorgeous Loch Sunart.
- Tobermory with its picturesque waterfront and wee distillery, Fionnphort with its access to Iona (probably the most "crowds" you'll encounter - pilgrims to the ancient abbey) and Lochbuie with its standing stones and Moy Castle, then Duart Castle on the way to the ferry back to Oban (and visible from the ferry.)
- Oban, the tourism hub of this part of the west coast, much more pleasant then Fort William.
- Kilmartin with its abundance of prehistoric sites, stones, etc. spread throughout the glen below the old church (with its collection of carved stones.)
- Inveraray, village and castle. (The castle was Shrimpy's place in Downton Abbey.) Eat local fish.
- Glen Etive, with the road branching off the main Glen Coe - Fort William road opposite the edge of the Rannoch Moor. Glen Etive is one of the most beautiful glens in Scotland - very dramatic stuff. http://gardyloo.us/20130613_71Hs.jpg
- Glen Coe and back to Fort William. If time allows, take a couple of hours to drive down the "Road to the Isles" to Glenfinnan with its iconic 1745 memorial and Harry Potter rail viaduct.
If interested I could also propose a northern loop from Fort William that could include Skye but much more.
I hesitate to use the word "crowded," because it's never crowded like, e.g., Old Faithful in Yellowstone or Yosemite Valley on a summer day. But I suspect - because of its size and relatively "unknown" status - that you'd find Mull much more "empty" feeling, with fewer cars and tour buses (which can drive you mad in the Highlands) in your way. No promises, of course.
Here's an imaginary map showing a possible route starting and ending in Fort William. Note the parts on Mull are purely speculative and really meant just to illustrate possibilities. It's not entirely "off the beaten path," but parts are certainly less beaten than Skye in August. https://goo.gl/maps/VHFu1hYaXso
Features:
- Fort William to Tobermory via the Ardnamurchan peninsula, along gorgeous Loch Sunart.
- Tobermory with its picturesque waterfront and wee distillery, Fionnphort with its access to Iona (probably the most "crowds" you'll encounter - pilgrims to the ancient abbey) and Lochbuie with its standing stones and Moy Castle, then Duart Castle on the way to the ferry back to Oban (and visible from the ferry.)
- Oban, the tourism hub of this part of the west coast, much more pleasant then Fort William.
- Kilmartin with its abundance of prehistoric sites, stones, etc. spread throughout the glen below the old church (with its collection of carved stones.)
- Inveraray, village and castle. (The castle was Shrimpy's place in Downton Abbey.) Eat local fish.
- Glen Etive, with the road branching off the main Glen Coe - Fort William road opposite the edge of the Rannoch Moor. Glen Etive is one of the most beautiful glens in Scotland - very dramatic stuff. http://gardyloo.us/20130613_71Hs.jpg
- Glen Coe and back to Fort William. If time allows, take a couple of hours to drive down the "Road to the Isles" to Glenfinnan with its iconic 1745 memorial and Harry Potter rail viaduct.
If interested I could also propose a northern loop from Fort William that could include Skye but much more.
Dec 3rd, 2016, 05:25 PM
#26
It is 'crowded' - it is a BIG place and tbe sites/sights are spread over the entire isle. Nothing at all like the AC. In fact in some parts you won't see anyone else . . . accommodations can be hard to find.
And on a whirlwind visit, you are almost certain to focus on the places other first timers want to see, so yes, there will be 'crowds'.
And on a whirlwind visit, you are almost certain to focus on the places other first timers want to see, so yes, there will be 'crowds'.
Dec 3rd, 2016, 06:04 PM
#27
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Gardyloo-
I have to say, your map links are just awesome! Thank you so much for the suggestions. And that photo is beautiful as well.
Today when looking at the Google map of Mull, I noticed Glenborrodale Castle (not on Mull) and I see your route takes us by there. It looks like it could be an option for an overnight castle stay.
How many days do you see for that circular route? All 6? There is so much good stuff there. Do you see us staying on Mull for part of that time? It looks so desolate from the photos I've seen.
I would LOVE to see the other northern route you propose, thank you. There's part of me that really likes the look of Kinloch Lodge.
I have to say, your map links are just awesome! Thank you so much for the suggestions. And that photo is beautiful as well.
Today when looking at the Google map of Mull, I noticed Glenborrodale Castle (not on Mull) and I see your route takes us by there. It looks like it could be an option for an overnight castle stay.
How many days do you see for that circular route? All 6? There is so much good stuff there. Do you see us staying on Mull for part of that time? It looks so desolate from the photos I've seen.
I would LOVE to see the other northern route you propose, thank you. There's part of me that really likes the look of Kinloch Lodge.
Dec 4th, 2016, 07:12 AM
#28
Well first, here's a northern loop - https://goo.gl/maps/9ZPVZCVtyk32
This starts with the "Road to the Isles" out to Mallaig and the ferry over to Skye. As with Mull (above) my routes <i>on</i> Skye are just representative of options; the actual route would be up to you. I happen to like Carbost for its views of the Cuillins, and I put Uig there because it's as close to the "Celtic Fringe" as you're going to get without traveling to the Western Isles; I believe the majority of the people there still speak Gaelic.
Anyway, the route then returns to the mainland (although remember you're still on a big island) and does a quick trip inland to Dornie for its views of famous Eilean Donan castle, then back to picturesque Plockton and Loch Carron. It then threads north through spectacular scenery and sea lochs to Torridon and on to Ullapool, then back across to Inverness and down the Great Glen back to Fort William. Google these places or use Undiscovered Scotland to see what points of interest there are close by; as with the southern loop you're still going to have to do a fair amount of editing and won't have time to see everything.
For the southern loop above, Here's a possible timetable:
1 (AM train) Edinburgh - Fort William (get car) - Glenborrodale (but see below.)
2 Glenborrowdale - Mull
3 Day on Mull
4 Day on Mull, PM ferry to Oban, overnight Oban
5 Oban - Kilmartin - Inveraray
6 Inveraray - Glen Etive - Glen Coe - Ft. William
For the northern loop, something like this:
1 Edinburgh - Fort William - Skye
2 Day on Skye
3 Day on Skye
4 Skye - Dornie - Plockton - Torridon
5 Torridon - Ullapool - Inverness
6 Inverness - Fort William
Fair warning: I tend to be rather aggressive in my day tripping in the Highlands, although I don't think any of these days is overly grueling on the driving front.
A word on Glenborrodale Castle - haven't stayed there and it looks very nice, but of course it's not a "real" castle; it was built in the 20th Century as a purpose-built guest house. You might want to look at recently-opened Mingary Castle - http://www.mingarycastle.com/index.html - as a possible alternative. It's very close to the ferry to Tobermory, and is a 13th century structure, not something built in the 19th or 20th Century in the "Scots baronial" style. Good reviews for the most part on TripAdvisor. I haven't looked for castle-hotels for the northern loop alternative; they're really not my style.
This starts with the "Road to the Isles" out to Mallaig and the ferry over to Skye. As with Mull (above) my routes <i>on</i> Skye are just representative of options; the actual route would be up to you. I happen to like Carbost for its views of the Cuillins, and I put Uig there because it's as close to the "Celtic Fringe" as you're going to get without traveling to the Western Isles; I believe the majority of the people there still speak Gaelic.
Anyway, the route then returns to the mainland (although remember you're still on a big island) and does a quick trip inland to Dornie for its views of famous Eilean Donan castle, then back to picturesque Plockton and Loch Carron. It then threads north through spectacular scenery and sea lochs to Torridon and on to Ullapool, then back across to Inverness and down the Great Glen back to Fort William. Google these places or use Undiscovered Scotland to see what points of interest there are close by; as with the southern loop you're still going to have to do a fair amount of editing and won't have time to see everything.
For the southern loop above, Here's a possible timetable:
1 (AM train) Edinburgh - Fort William (get car) - Glenborrodale (but see below.)
2 Glenborrowdale - Mull
3 Day on Mull
4 Day on Mull, PM ferry to Oban, overnight Oban
5 Oban - Kilmartin - Inveraray
6 Inveraray - Glen Etive - Glen Coe - Ft. William
For the northern loop, something like this:
1 Edinburgh - Fort William - Skye
2 Day on Skye
3 Day on Skye
4 Skye - Dornie - Plockton - Torridon
5 Torridon - Ullapool - Inverness
6 Inverness - Fort William
Fair warning: I tend to be rather aggressive in my day tripping in the Highlands, although I don't think any of these days is overly grueling on the driving front.
A word on Glenborrodale Castle - haven't stayed there and it looks very nice, but of course it's not a "real" castle; it was built in the 20th Century as a purpose-built guest house. You might want to look at recently-opened Mingary Castle - http://www.mingarycastle.com/index.html - as a possible alternative. It's very close to the ferry to Tobermory, and is a 13th century structure, not something built in the 19th or 20th Century in the "Scots baronial" style. Good reviews for the most part on TripAdvisor. I haven't looked for castle-hotels for the northern loop alternative; they're really not my style.
Dec 4th, 2016, 07:24 AM
#29
Meant to add, you could also do the northern loop starting and ending in Inverness, which might make the car less expensive and give you more time on the ground. https://goo.gl/maps/YZ52Br6SwPu
Dec 4th, 2016, 08:27 AM
#31
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A long train trip after an all-night flight could not be great either - especially since you have to get over to King's Cross in London to get the train.
Better to fly or stay the night in London and enjoy more the longish train trip - (first class is a lot lot nicer on those trains than 2nd class- check discounted tickets in first class too- sometimes not much more. Free food and drinks the whole way.
Better to fly or stay the night in London and enjoy more the longish train trip - (first class is a lot lot nicer on those trains than 2nd class- check discounted tickets in first class too- sometimes not much more. Free food and drinks the whole way.
Dec 4th, 2016, 08:44 AM
#32
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Gardyloo- Thank you! I had not noticed that Glenborrodale was "new". Hmmm. Mingary looks nice.
I like the northern loop too and I'm now leaning toward starting/ending in Inverness. I think that might be easier all around. There are more train choices to get to Inverness than there are for FW. I'm sure the car rental options are better as well.
So if we start in Inverness, would you recommend a night there before picking up a car?
I like the northern loop too and I'm now leaning toward starting/ending in Inverness. I think that might be easier all around. There are more train choices to get to Inverness than there are for FW. I'm sure the car rental options are better as well.
So if we start in Inverness, would you recommend a night there before picking up a car?
Dec 4th, 2016, 08:55 AM
#33
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PalenQ-Yes, we're planning on flying to EDI. That's because the overnight train at the start of the trip does not make sense (given the timing). Plus, I think it just would be easier to get off the plane at LHR and get on another, rather than go into London to catch a train. With what we already have booked in Edinburgh, there's no time for an overnight in London at the start.
Dec 4th, 2016, 09:24 AM
#34
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I know you are looking forward to staying at Kinloch Lodge on Skye, and it is very nice but will offer a suggestion for the other itinerary which has you with an overnight in Oban. I have stayed at the Manor House in Oban a number of times, and it's one of my favorites. The rooms with a sea view are worth the price.The restaurant is good although Kinloch is the better of the two. Still an excellent place. I believe the website is www.manorhouseoban.com
Dec 4th, 2016, 09:36 AM
#35
<i>I like the northern loop too and I'm now leaning toward starting/ending in Inverness. I think that might be easier all around. There are more train choices to get to Inverness than there are for FW. I'm sure the car rental options are better as well.</i>
Like many people, I don't find Inverness particularly attractive, although there are some interesting places nearby (Culloden et al.) So if you took the train to and from Inverness, I'd probably head out west on arrival.
Frankly with your limited time and wish list, I'd skip the train ride TO Inverness (which IMO is fairly boring) and arrange a one-way car hire from Edinburgh to Inverness, allowing for the train south. One-way rentals usually don't involve the high one-way premiums they do in other countries, and having the car would expand your alternatives without much of a time penalty at all. (One way rentals to/from Fort William are tricky because there aren't many national/global car agencies in Fort William; not the case with Inverness.)
Route - https://goo.gl/maps/WRy9b9Ltaps
1 Edinburgh - Glen Etive - Glen Coe
2 Glen Coe - Dornie - PM on Skye
3 Day on Skye
4 Day on Skye - Plockton
5 Plockton - Torridon - Ullapool
6 Ullapool - Inverness, train south
Like many people, I don't find Inverness particularly attractive, although there are some interesting places nearby (Culloden et al.) So if you took the train to and from Inverness, I'd probably head out west on arrival.
Frankly with your limited time and wish list, I'd skip the train ride TO Inverness (which IMO is fairly boring) and arrange a one-way car hire from Edinburgh to Inverness, allowing for the train south. One-way rentals usually don't involve the high one-way premiums they do in other countries, and having the car would expand your alternatives without much of a time penalty at all. (One way rentals to/from Fort William are tricky because there aren't many national/global car agencies in Fort William; not the case with Inverness.)
Route - https://goo.gl/maps/WRy9b9Ltaps
1 Edinburgh - Glen Etive - Glen Coe
2 Glen Coe - Dornie - PM on Skye
3 Day on Skye
4 Day on Skye - Plockton
5 Plockton - Torridon - Ullapool
6 Ullapool - Inverness, train south
Dec 4th, 2016, 09:46 AM
#36
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Not a lot to do Inverness to be honest but staying one night would make for a more relaxing trip.
Not quite a castle but I had a decent stay here once:
http://bunchrewhousehotel.com/
Right on the Firth of Forth.
Not quite a castle but I had a decent stay here once:
http://bunchrewhousehotel.com/
Right on the Firth of Forth.
Dec 4th, 2016, 11:57 AM
#39
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HistoryTraveler- Thanks, I'll check it out.
Gardyloo-you've given me even more to condsider, thank you!
jtpj777-Bunchrew House looks lovely but it is a bit out of my budget in August.
kraines- I got an alert from it, I think from The Points Guy. There was a TON of availability, all the way through Sept 2017, but the summer dates disappeared within 2 days. There are still a lot of cheap fares out there to Europe, through May.
Gardyloo-you've given me even more to condsider, thank you!
jtpj777-Bunchrew House looks lovely but it is a bit out of my budget in August.
kraines- I got an alert from it, I think from The Points Guy. There was a TON of availability, all the way through Sept 2017, but the summer dates disappeared within 2 days. There are still a lot of cheap fares out there to Europe, through May.
Dec 4th, 2016, 12:32 PM
#40
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If we were to do that, we'd have to wait until 11:30pm in London after an overnight flight for that train.>
Moot point but for others - when I've taken that those trains you could board them in Euston (?)Station much earlier than departure time- not guaranteed though. Flying that leg is of course much nicer.
Moot point but for others - when I've taken that those trains you could board them in Euston (?)Station much earlier than departure time- not guaranteed though. Flying that leg is of course much nicer.
