SCOTLAND - Itinerary, Lodging Help Please
Jul 7th, 2013, 08:41 PM
#41
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Yes, "book marking" means I find the discussion useful for my owm plans. There Are valuable contributions here I want to be able to incorporate into my own plans. Bookmarking makes it easy to find them again, and spares the contributors from answering the same question again.
Jul 7th, 2013, 09:39 PM
#42
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I agree that some of us have lost the plot!
I will defer to janisj, sofarsogood and others who have more experience in Scotland compared to my 3 trips. However, I will say that our trip that included the Trossachs, Skye and Loch Ness/Culloden is the family favorite of our (extensive) travelling in 2+ years here in the UK. From that trip, I'd pick the Trossachs & Skye if I had to chose (with a visit to Urquhart Castle on the way back from Skye).
Since you want to take on Edinburgh, then Trossachs/Skye/Edinburgh makes for a nice 10-11 day holiday.
This was based on the following priorities:
1) historical events/places (Stirling Castle, Bannockburn, Wallace Monument, Urquhart Castle, Culloden, etc.)
2) great scenery with good walk options (Ben A'An, Glencoe Visitors Centre, Skye, etc.)
I think your interests are similar but perhaps not. It's your trip (not mine) so I'm just trying to explain our rationale to see if that helps.
It appears you have an additional requirement of staying in really nice (5-star-ish) places. I can't fully relate to that. We stay in nice places but not luxurious -- I look for a good value that meets my requirements.
I would suggest picking where you want to go and finding the nicest place to stay rather than steering the trip around the nicest places to stay.
Take a step back. What are your hard requirements? Must sees? I'm sure a good trip will come together even if it isn't everything.
I will defer to janisj, sofarsogood and others who have more experience in Scotland compared to my 3 trips. However, I will say that our trip that included the Trossachs, Skye and Loch Ness/Culloden is the family favorite of our (extensive) travelling in 2+ years here in the UK. From that trip, I'd pick the Trossachs & Skye if I had to chose (with a visit to Urquhart Castle on the way back from Skye).
Since you want to take on Edinburgh, then Trossachs/Skye/Edinburgh makes for a nice 10-11 day holiday.
This was based on the following priorities:
1) historical events/places (Stirling Castle, Bannockburn, Wallace Monument, Urquhart Castle, Culloden, etc.)
2) great scenery with good walk options (Ben A'An, Glencoe Visitors Centre, Skye, etc.)
I think your interests are similar but perhaps not. It's your trip (not mine) so I'm just trying to explain our rationale to see if that helps.
It appears you have an additional requirement of staying in really nice (5-star-ish) places. I can't fully relate to that. We stay in nice places but not luxurious -- I look for a good value that meets my requirements.
I would suggest picking where you want to go and finding the nicest place to stay rather than steering the trip around the nicest places to stay.
Take a step back. What are your hard requirements? Must sees? I'm sure a good trip will come together even if it isn't everything.
Jul 7th, 2013, 11:42 PM
#43
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Okay - thanks Janis. Sofar, here are some big picture facts that may help (26 nights total):
- 4 or 5 nights London to start (minimum 4 nights are set)
- 6 nights Wiltshire (set - we will not shorten our stay here)
- fly to Scotland for a 10-night trip, 11 nights if we drop a night off first bit in London
- finish in Edinburgh, return to England via Hadrian's wall, sightsee on route to the Lakes
- 2 nights Lake District then 3 back in London (the Lakes are set at 2 nights, London min. 3)
25 days total - if we give up a day in London, we would have 14 days England, 10 Scotland. 14 Scotland and 10 England would have been better for this trip based on what we have learned.
Accommodations arranged for almost all areas - need to finalize lodging for the "middle of the bit in Scotland," and book Highlands Castle for one night if we are staying there. There is some flex in the dates, but moving from 10 nights Scotland to 11 means going with 4 nights in London to start (altogether we would still have 7 nights London in total this trip).
By "middle of the bit in Scotland" - I am referring to the "Skye" or "Perthshire" self-catering stay between the Highlands and Edinburgh. Taking a shorter stay in Skye (e.g. 2 or 3 nights) would land us in an Inn or hotel, rather than self-catering (we need to break up the hotels...)
Ideally, we would like to accomplish the following while in Scotland:
- Highlands archery, scenery/falls, a hike (plus a full day dedicated to the Jacobite - already set)
- Skye for scenery, biking, hiking, Portree, Dunvegan, Museum/Island Life, market, boat tour
- Loch Ness and castle (visit while driving), Eilean Donan - visit en route
- Loch Lomond (stop by en route), the A82 plus road to the isles drive (if going to Skye)
- Edinburgh castle, Cam. Obsura, Arthur's seat, Museum(s), a few shops, maybe Holyrood etc.
- Need to work in Stirling Castle, Wallace Monument, also Falkirk Wheel, Bo'ness Motor Museum
- Staying in a castle somehow would be nice - we have never done this
- Re-entering England via Hadrian's Wall would be cool - Housesteads, Vindolanda, etc.
We need to act now for other arrangements, and book our middle accommodations, as well as transport to Scotland right away - so this is why we are turning to the forum. If you still have questions, please let me know - the questions we are trying to address are posted above.
- 4 or 5 nights London to start (minimum 4 nights are set)
- 6 nights Wiltshire (set - we will not shorten our stay here)
- fly to Scotland for a 10-night trip, 11 nights if we drop a night off first bit in London
- finish in Edinburgh, return to England via Hadrian's wall, sightsee on route to the Lakes
- 2 nights Lake District then 3 back in London (the Lakes are set at 2 nights, London min. 3)
25 days total - if we give up a day in London, we would have 14 days England, 10 Scotland. 14 Scotland and 10 England would have been better for this trip based on what we have learned.
Accommodations arranged for almost all areas - need to finalize lodging for the "middle of the bit in Scotland," and book Highlands Castle for one night if we are staying there. There is some flex in the dates, but moving from 10 nights Scotland to 11 means going with 4 nights in London to start (altogether we would still have 7 nights London in total this trip).
By "middle of the bit in Scotland" - I am referring to the "Skye" or "Perthshire" self-catering stay between the Highlands and Edinburgh. Taking a shorter stay in Skye (e.g. 2 or 3 nights) would land us in an Inn or hotel, rather than self-catering (we need to break up the hotels...)
Ideally, we would like to accomplish the following while in Scotland:
- Highlands archery, scenery/falls, a hike (plus a full day dedicated to the Jacobite - already set)
- Skye for scenery, biking, hiking, Portree, Dunvegan, Museum/Island Life, market, boat tour
- Loch Ness and castle (visit while driving), Eilean Donan - visit en route
- Loch Lomond (stop by en route), the A82 plus road to the isles drive (if going to Skye)
- Edinburgh castle, Cam. Obsura, Arthur's seat, Museum(s), a few shops, maybe Holyrood etc.
- Need to work in Stirling Castle, Wallace Monument, also Falkirk Wheel, Bo'ness Motor Museum
- Staying in a castle somehow would be nice - we have never done this
- Re-entering England via Hadrian's Wall would be cool - Housesteads, Vindolanda, etc.
We need to act now for other arrangements, and book our middle accommodations, as well as transport to Scotland right away - so this is why we are turning to the forum. If you still have questions, please let me know - the questions we are trying to address are posted above.
Jul 8th, 2013, 12:05 AM
#44
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Indy_Dad - you are an awesome traveller - and the Trossachs look wonderful (nice scenery).
We want to visit the Highlands for sure - we like this kind of scenery - we are committed to our lodgings there though we could go with three nights instead of 4 from what we hear.
Photos of the Trossachs look super to but we did not plan any accommodations there : (
Skye gets rave reviews - doubtful it would disappoint (aside from Edinburgh it seems to have the most "to-do" items on our list of things to see - our challenge here is the drive to Edinburgh, especially if we stay on the North of the island (I think we would like the scenery there).
Another challenge is how to get at Loch Ness, Wallace Monument, Stirling Castle, Falkirk, and the Bo'Ness motor museum (we are keen on cars) without feeling rushed.
We could never see these if we started in Glasgow, saw the Highlands, then Skye, and drove to Edinburgh (Edinburgh drive from Skye is doable in a day, but not with much sightseeing).
We might be able to see these sites coming from Glasgow, if we went Glasgow to Glencoe, up through Loch Ness and over to Kyle L., to Skye, then back down to Inverlochy Castle (one night). This would give us a head start the next day, and it might allow us to reach these sites en route to Edinburgh, but it would also limit time in Edinburgh to 2 nights owing to availability.
We thought we might be able to see sites like Stirling by skipping Skye and basing ourselves in the Perthshire hills (could do Loch Ness en route) - please see options above, I think Gardyloo was suggesting starting in Edinburgh and working our way to the Highlands from there so we could see Stirling Castle etc. at the start of our trip - at least I think that's what Gardy meant).
We want to visit the Highlands for sure - we like this kind of scenery - we are committed to our lodgings there though we could go with three nights instead of 4 from what we hear.
Photos of the Trossachs look super to but we did not plan any accommodations there : (
Skye gets rave reviews - doubtful it would disappoint (aside from Edinburgh it seems to have the most "to-do" items on our list of things to see - our challenge here is the drive to Edinburgh, especially if we stay on the North of the island (I think we would like the scenery there).
Another challenge is how to get at Loch Ness, Wallace Monument, Stirling Castle, Falkirk, and the Bo'Ness motor museum (we are keen on cars) without feeling rushed.
We could never see these if we started in Glasgow, saw the Highlands, then Skye, and drove to Edinburgh (Edinburgh drive from Skye is doable in a day, but not with much sightseeing).
We might be able to see these sites coming from Glasgow, if we went Glasgow to Glencoe, up through Loch Ness and over to Kyle L., to Skye, then back down to Inverlochy Castle (one night). This would give us a head start the next day, and it might allow us to reach these sites en route to Edinburgh, but it would also limit time in Edinburgh to 2 nights owing to availability.
We thought we might be able to see sites like Stirling by skipping Skye and basing ourselves in the Perthshire hills (could do Loch Ness en route) - please see options above, I think Gardyloo was suggesting starting in Edinburgh and working our way to the Highlands from there so we could see Stirling Castle etc. at the start of our trip - at least I think that's what Gardy meant).
Jul 8th, 2013, 06:42 AM
#45
I'm sorry - but you have gotten too far off in the weeds for me. I simply can't follow all your permutations/options/deliberations.
You have 10 nights in Scotland. easy peasy.
• Fly to Glasgow, collect car (no jet lag so no problem). Drive up the west side of Loch Lomond and to Glen Coe. Stay two nights.
• Drive to Skye - stay three nights.
• Drive to Dunkeld (much nicer/prettier than Pitlochry). Enroute via Ft Augustus take a short detour up the west side of Loch Ness to see Urquhart Castle. stay one night in Dunkeld.
• From Dunkeld drive to Stirling area - visit Stirling Castle/Doune Castle and Inchmahome Priory. Stay one night. (Or you could skip Dunkeld and drive all the way to near Stirling and stay two nights)
• Visit Auto museum/Falkirk Wheel, then to EDI to drop car. Taxi to the Calledonian. Stay 3 nights.
You have 10 nights in Scotland. easy peasy.
• Fly to Glasgow, collect car (no jet lag so no problem). Drive up the west side of Loch Lomond and to Glen Coe. Stay two nights.
• Drive to Skye - stay three nights.
• Drive to Dunkeld (much nicer/prettier than Pitlochry). Enroute via Ft Augustus take a short detour up the west side of Loch Ness to see Urquhart Castle. stay one night in Dunkeld.
• From Dunkeld drive to Stirling area - visit Stirling Castle/Doune Castle and Inchmahome Priory. Stay one night. (Or you could skip Dunkeld and drive all the way to near Stirling and stay two nights)
• Visit Auto museum/Falkirk Wheel, then to EDI to drop car. Taxi to the Calledonian. Stay 3 nights.
Jul 8th, 2013, 07:17 AM
#46
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43 responses and as far as I can see you are still where you were when you started.
Look, you are trying to plan something down to the hour. You must be or you wouldn't be including Stirling Castle, the Wallace Monument, the Selkirk Wheel and the Motor Museum all in a lump.
You have 10 days. You've said 4 in Glencoe is fixed. That's the first mistake. You are now trying to throw a castle night in, that's another mistake. You can't decide whether to visit Skye or Perthshire, why, because you can't decide which is better for you. You list some places in Edinburgh to visit. You throw in Pitlochry and Eilian Donan.
Several posters have now said they are 'confused', clearly you are even more confused. You are letting the planning get so complicated you are now suffering from 'paralysis by analysis.'
You refer to a 'once in a lifetime trip' and that to me indicates the classic mistake of thinking you have to see and do everything in this trip. YOU CAN'T do it all.
The common phrase is 'to see/do as much as possible'. Most people confuse the word 'much' with the word 'many'. They are not synonymous. The way to see/do as much as possible is actually to spend time IN places, not in BETWEEN places.
A visit to Selkirk and the Wallace Monument is basically a day trip on its own. The Falkirk Wheel and Motor Museum another day trip. Or is an hour at each your idea of 'been there, done that'?
To walk down the Royal Mile from Edinburgh Castle to Holyrood Palace is a day or perhaps even two depending on your interests. The Writers Museum in Mary Stairs Close you mention is good for an hour. The Camera Obscura is skippable for anyone other than a real Obscura fanatic. Edinburgh Castle itself is a couple of hours unless you plan to speed walk around it. If you visited the People's Museum (arguably the best on the Mile) you can spend at least another hour. If you visited the Children's Museum, yet another hour. Then there is Gladstone House, another hour. The list goes on and on. There are probably 20 places to visit on the Royal Mile at least. Then, what about the National Museum, the National Gallery, The Gallery of Modern Art and the Portrait Gallery? No time for them. Arthur's Seat is a half day. Edinburgh has so much you couldn't see it all in a week.
You are simply trying to cover too much in too little time and looking over and over again at a way to incorporate as much as possible in a short time. Each time you try, you continue to include too much.
Make a decision. Pick an itinerary. There is no BEST in any of your now dozens of possibilities you have floated. The itinerary janisj has just given you is as good as any including the 2 nights in Glencoe. I love Glencoe and love hiking but with only 10 days I would not give it 4 of them.
Look, you are trying to plan something down to the hour. You must be or you wouldn't be including Stirling Castle, the Wallace Monument, the Selkirk Wheel and the Motor Museum all in a lump.
You have 10 days. You've said 4 in Glencoe is fixed. That's the first mistake. You are now trying to throw a castle night in, that's another mistake. You can't decide whether to visit Skye or Perthshire, why, because you can't decide which is better for you. You list some places in Edinburgh to visit. You throw in Pitlochry and Eilian Donan.
Several posters have now said they are 'confused', clearly you are even more confused. You are letting the planning get so complicated you are now suffering from 'paralysis by analysis.'
You refer to a 'once in a lifetime trip' and that to me indicates the classic mistake of thinking you have to see and do everything in this trip. YOU CAN'T do it all.
The common phrase is 'to see/do as much as possible'. Most people confuse the word 'much' with the word 'many'. They are not synonymous. The way to see/do as much as possible is actually to spend time IN places, not in BETWEEN places.
A visit to Selkirk and the Wallace Monument is basically a day trip on its own. The Falkirk Wheel and Motor Museum another day trip. Or is an hour at each your idea of 'been there, done that'?
To walk down the Royal Mile from Edinburgh Castle to Holyrood Palace is a day or perhaps even two depending on your interests. The Writers Museum in Mary Stairs Close you mention is good for an hour. The Camera Obscura is skippable for anyone other than a real Obscura fanatic. Edinburgh Castle itself is a couple of hours unless you plan to speed walk around it. If you visited the People's Museum (arguably the best on the Mile) you can spend at least another hour. If you visited the Children's Museum, yet another hour. Then there is Gladstone House, another hour. The list goes on and on. There are probably 20 places to visit on the Royal Mile at least. Then, what about the National Museum, the National Gallery, The Gallery of Modern Art and the Portrait Gallery? No time for them. Arthur's Seat is a half day. Edinburgh has so much you couldn't see it all in a week.
You are simply trying to cover too much in too little time and looking over and over again at a way to incorporate as much as possible in a short time. Each time you try, you continue to include too much.
Make a decision. Pick an itinerary. There is no BEST in any of your now dozens of possibilities you have floated. The itinerary janisj has just given you is as good as any including the 2 nights in Glencoe. I love Glencoe and love hiking but with only 10 days I would not give it 4 of them.
Jul 8th, 2013, 11:37 PM
#47
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Improviser, your comments about 4 nights Glencoe are valid - Janis, I appreciate your itinerary work - no idea where Dunkfield is but will find out after posting and see what's available there.
Improviser, I don't think we are still at where we started, as we have completely dropped a long stay in Loch Ness, given up a stay on the Isle of Mull, and committed only to driving by Loch N.
Should also be noted that most of our questions have not been answered directly, though lots of good tips and ideas presented, even on mosquito spray, and overseas flights - awesome.
Should also be noted that only Janis and Gardyloo replied with actual itinerary suggestions, which was great - I have spent time working with Gardyloo's and will be checking out Janis's idea shortly. This is appreciated, especially as the original post asked for itinerary help.
Improviser - you asked for more detail, and you asked for information on our interests. In response, we posted both. Regarding museums, the kids could make it through one, given a couple of days time - they are not huge museum fans and will not last as long as I might, as an adult. Also, we really have to go by availability now - I know where the availability is for our dates - the options I have outlined are all availability-based.
As for Glencoe - two nights would be okay - but we are spending one day on the Jacobite trip. If we stay only two nights, we will not be able to do anything other than the Jacobite. So we will stay at 3 nights - this is a compromise. We did note that we could do three or four there.
As for the castle stay, we are already so long in England that I thought I could add an extra night (to make 11) at the beginning of the Scotland leg - the castle happens to be one of only two places anywhere on the route where we have found availability for that particularly night. The other is Pitolchry's Knockderry House). The castle looks beautiful - we don't have castles at home, so I thought the night there would bring us closer to the sights, while giving us more time, and the chance to stay in something we could never possibly imagine.
Not many comments about Garyloo's EDIN/EDIN plan - is there a way of working with Gardyloo's trip that works? If not, then yes, I guess we had better stick to Glasgow.
Improviser, I don't think we are still at where we started, as we have completely dropped a long stay in Loch Ness, given up a stay on the Isle of Mull, and committed only to driving by Loch N.
Should also be noted that most of our questions have not been answered directly, though lots of good tips and ideas presented, even on mosquito spray, and overseas flights - awesome.
Should also be noted that only Janis and Gardyloo replied with actual itinerary suggestions, which was great - I have spent time working with Gardyloo's and will be checking out Janis's idea shortly. This is appreciated, especially as the original post asked for itinerary help.
Improviser - you asked for more detail, and you asked for information on our interests. In response, we posted both. Regarding museums, the kids could make it through one, given a couple of days time - they are not huge museum fans and will not last as long as I might, as an adult. Also, we really have to go by availability now - I know where the availability is for our dates - the options I have outlined are all availability-based.
As for Glencoe - two nights would be okay - but we are spending one day on the Jacobite trip. If we stay only two nights, we will not be able to do anything other than the Jacobite. So we will stay at 3 nights - this is a compromise. We did note that we could do three or four there.
As for the castle stay, we are already so long in England that I thought I could add an extra night (to make 11) at the beginning of the Scotland leg - the castle happens to be one of only two places anywhere on the route where we have found availability for that particularly night. The other is Pitolchry's Knockderry House). The castle looks beautiful - we don't have castles at home, so I thought the night there would bring us closer to the sights, while giving us more time, and the chance to stay in something we could never possibly imagine.
Not many comments about Garyloo's EDIN/EDIN plan - is there a way of working with Gardyloo's trip that works? If not, then yes, I guess we had better stick to Glasgow.
Jul 9th, 2013, 07:26 AM
#48
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I would never choose Glasgow over Edinburgh for a tourist going to Scotland. Not that Glasgow doesn't have things of interest to a tourist but Edinburgh simply has a lot more in a very small (walkable) area. More bang for your buck so to speak.
The route Gardyloo laid out is as good as any other route. No route will take in everything. Again, there is no best.
Regarding castles, Knockderry is near Loch Lomond, no where near Pitlochry. There is a large number of hotels that are 'castle' like rather than actual castles. I would say that while it would take some digging with Google to find some of them, there should be plenty along any route you choose to take. Most are country houses rather than actual castles. Neither Knockderry or Inverlochy are actually a castle. I'd say if you want to sleep in a castle then go for the real thing. To find those needs more digging.
Dornoch Castle for example withstood a seige. That's a good indicator of the real thing. The other is age. Anything from the 18th century on is probably not a castle but a country estate house. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornoch_Castle
Barcaldine is the real deal as well.
http://www.barcaldinecastle.co.uk/about/
Look for the word 'tower' in a description. That often signifies it was built for defense.
Check this site for Rosslyn Castle; Castle of Park; Saddell Castle as examples. http://www.landmarktrust.org.uk/Sear...tion/scotland/
Another source is the Vivat Trust. They have several towers including this one in Edinburgh: http://www.vivat-trust.org/properties.php?pid=83
I've also rented the Tower of Hallbar which is one of their properties.
But fitting any of these into an existing plan may be difficult. On one visit to Scotland I went with the intent of doing a 'Castle tour'. That was the objective of the trip. Visit castles with no accomodation offered and stay in other castles along the way. I stayed in a 'castle' (included some country houses rather than real castles) every night for 2 weeks. It's not hard to do at all but you can't fit the castle to the plan, you have to fit the plan around the castle I'd say.
The route Gardyloo laid out is as good as any other route. No route will take in everything. Again, there is no best.
Regarding castles, Knockderry is near Loch Lomond, no where near Pitlochry. There is a large number of hotels that are 'castle' like rather than actual castles. I would say that while it would take some digging with Google to find some of them, there should be plenty along any route you choose to take. Most are country houses rather than actual castles. Neither Knockderry or Inverlochy are actually a castle. I'd say if you want to sleep in a castle then go for the real thing. To find those needs more digging.
Dornoch Castle for example withstood a seige. That's a good indicator of the real thing. The other is age. Anything from the 18th century on is probably not a castle but a country estate house. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornoch_Castle
Barcaldine is the real deal as well.
http://www.barcaldinecastle.co.uk/about/
Look for the word 'tower' in a description. That often signifies it was built for defense.
Check this site for Rosslyn Castle; Castle of Park; Saddell Castle as examples. http://www.landmarktrust.org.uk/Sear...tion/scotland/
Another source is the Vivat Trust. They have several towers including this one in Edinburgh: http://www.vivat-trust.org/properties.php?pid=83
I've also rented the Tower of Hallbar which is one of their properties.
But fitting any of these into an existing plan may be difficult. On one visit to Scotland I went with the intent of doing a 'Castle tour'. That was the objective of the trip. Visit castles with no accomodation offered and stay in other castles along the way. I stayed in a 'castle' (included some country houses rather than real castles) every night for 2 weeks. It's not hard to do at all but you can't fit the castle to the plan, you have to fit the plan around the castle I'd say.
Jul 9th, 2013, 11:42 PM
#49
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Good point again and thanks for your message Improviser. You are right about Knockderry - somehow I thought it was closer to Stirling (so that we could see several sights after picking up a car at Edinburgh airport as per Gardyloo's plan, and then overnight before hitting Glencoe.
Also a good point about planning the trip and fitting in a castle (if you can) later. This is where Inverlochy would work well (though it was built in the 1800's, and is therefore not truly a castle). We have the one "flex" night we can use to extend the stay in Scotland by a day.
This day only comes at the beginning of the time in Scotland - Inverlochy just happens to have that night available, and if they still do, it would permit us to make the Scotland half of the trip 10 days (not 9). Our problem is being able to get there - it makes more sense to begin driving from Glasgow's airport, but we are not planning any sightseeing around Glasgow.
I thought Gardyloo's plan would give us the chance to at least see Stirling Castle and the Wallace monument after leaving Edinburgh airport. But it is a long drive:
- 40 minutes to Stirling from airport
- 30 minutes - time at Falkirk on route (save Bo'Ness for return trip)
- 2 hours Stirling Castle
- 1 hour Wallace monument
- drive along Loch Lomond
- 2 1/2 Loch Lomond to Stirling
My estimate is that if we can have our car and be out of Edinburgh Airport by 10:30 am, we can arrive at Inverlochy at around 6 pm. Do these estimates sound fair?
Coming from Glasgow, we would likely only stop at Loch Lomond.
Thank you for the castle suggestions - I thought Dornoch was off our route but I will double check and I will look up the other castle names as well.
We were looking also at Langley castle (a real castle from what we understand) but staying there would mean robbing Scotland (Edinburgh) of a night.
The benefit of staying at Langley would be staying longer along Hadrian's Wall (1 night). We last heard that we could see Hadrian's wall while driving from Edinburgh to Keswick without overnighting, but we would like to stop and take at least a couple of hours to walk around and enjoy the views, plus it would be nice to stop at the Callandish Standing Stones. We would leave Edinburgh early, but we need to be in Keswick in time to prepare for dinner.
Also a good point about planning the trip and fitting in a castle (if you can) later. This is where Inverlochy would work well (though it was built in the 1800's, and is therefore not truly a castle). We have the one "flex" night we can use to extend the stay in Scotland by a day.
This day only comes at the beginning of the time in Scotland - Inverlochy just happens to have that night available, and if they still do, it would permit us to make the Scotland half of the trip 10 days (not 9). Our problem is being able to get there - it makes more sense to begin driving from Glasgow's airport, but we are not planning any sightseeing around Glasgow.
I thought Gardyloo's plan would give us the chance to at least see Stirling Castle and the Wallace monument after leaving Edinburgh airport. But it is a long drive:
- 40 minutes to Stirling from airport
- 30 minutes - time at Falkirk on route (save Bo'Ness for return trip)
- 2 hours Stirling Castle
- 1 hour Wallace monument
- drive along Loch Lomond
- 2 1/2 Loch Lomond to Stirling
My estimate is that if we can have our car and be out of Edinburgh Airport by 10:30 am, we can arrive at Inverlochy at around 6 pm. Do these estimates sound fair?
Coming from Glasgow, we would likely only stop at Loch Lomond.
Thank you for the castle suggestions - I thought Dornoch was off our route but I will double check and I will look up the other castle names as well.
We were looking also at Langley castle (a real castle from what we understand) but staying there would mean robbing Scotland (Edinburgh) of a night.
The benefit of staying at Langley would be staying longer along Hadrian's Wall (1 night). We last heard that we could see Hadrian's wall while driving from Edinburgh to Keswick without overnighting, but we would like to stop and take at least a couple of hours to walk around and enjoy the views, plus it would be nice to stop at the Callandish Standing Stones. We would leave Edinburgh early, but we need to be in Keswick in time to prepare for dinner.
Jul 10th, 2013, 10:43 AM
#50
I'm going to leave you to your planning - every post gets more and more confusing.
>>- 40 minutes to Stirling from airport
- 30 minutes - time at Falkirk on route (save Bo'Ness for return trip)
- 2 hours Stirling Castle
- 1 hour Wallace monument
- drive along Loch Lomond
- 2 1/2 Loch Lomond to Stirling<<
What is this? Why driving around in circles? And 30 minutes at the Falkirk Wheel is totally inadequate. If you take the boat excursion you need to allocate at least 90 minutes - and they are timed so you may not get on the boat immediately. And if you don't take the boat - it really is just a quick photo stop and no need to do anything but get out of the car take a couple of pictures and dash off. 2 hours is bare minimum at Stirling Castle. But then to drive to the Wallace Monument then back across to Loch Lomond and back to Stirling just doesn't make sense.
>>- 40 minutes to Stirling from airport
- 30 minutes - time at Falkirk on route (save Bo'Ness for return trip)
- 2 hours Stirling Castle
- 1 hour Wallace monument
- drive along Loch Lomond
- 2 1/2 Loch Lomond to Stirling<<
What is this? Why driving around in circles? And 30 minutes at the Falkirk Wheel is totally inadequate. If you take the boat excursion you need to allocate at least 90 minutes - and they are timed so you may not get on the boat immediately. And if you don't take the boat - it really is just a quick photo stop and no need to do anything but get out of the car take a couple of pictures and dash off. 2 hours is bare minimum at Stirling Castle. But then to drive to the Wallace Monument then back across to Loch Lomond and back to Stirling just doesn't make sense.
Jul 10th, 2013, 12:20 PM
#51
I have stayed away from this thread because frankly it's a bit hard to follow, especially for those of us who are - er - a bit "seasoned." (English = old.)
Can I make a suggestion that might help you organize yourselves a little at the get-go? Fly into <i>either</i> Edinburgh or Glasgow (my preference is Edinburgh) and book into a hotel for two nights. There are several affordable hotels close to both.
Rather than breaking camp and trying to squeeze in the Stirling etc. sights en route to/from the Highlands, just spend the first full day visiting them, then return to the hotel that night. Stirling is 35-40 minutes by motorway from either airport, and you can easily construct a loop that encompasses all the places on your list, even more (for example the marvelous architectural heritage village of Culross on the north shore of the Forth.)
Then when it's time to rocket off to the Highlands, you'll (a) be better rested, and (b) be able to take a more direct and scenic route than one complicated by zigzagging around the countryside. One thing of note is that airport hotels are far more car-friendly than those in cities or even villages, so that too might be a consideration for the first couple of nights.
With as much on your plate as you've planned, you need to pace yourselves, and of course be willing to alter things based on conditions. What if the weather is so abysmal that you don't want to get out of the car at some location? Have a backup plan.
Anyway, my counsel is to take it easy. It's not going anywhere.
Can I make a suggestion that might help you organize yourselves a little at the get-go? Fly into <i>either</i> Edinburgh or Glasgow (my preference is Edinburgh) and book into a hotel for two nights. There are several affordable hotels close to both.
Rather than breaking camp and trying to squeeze in the Stirling etc. sights en route to/from the Highlands, just spend the first full day visiting them, then return to the hotel that night. Stirling is 35-40 minutes by motorway from either airport, and you can easily construct a loop that encompasses all the places on your list, even more (for example the marvelous architectural heritage village of Culross on the north shore of the Forth.)
Then when it's time to rocket off to the Highlands, you'll (a) be better rested, and (b) be able to take a more direct and scenic route than one complicated by zigzagging around the countryside. One thing of note is that airport hotels are far more car-friendly than those in cities or even villages, so that too might be a consideration for the first couple of nights.
With as much on your plate as you've planned, you need to pace yourselves, and of course be willing to alter things based on conditions. What if the weather is so abysmal that you don't want to get out of the car at some location? Have a backup plan.
Anyway, my counsel is to take it easy. It's not going anywhere.
Jul 11th, 2013, 06:48 AM
#52
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this now getting beyond ridiculous. I can see it now, you arrive at your pre-booked accomodation in Glen Coe to find yourself in the midst of a typically Scottish weather phenomenon called rain. What's more it will continue for days. Meanwhile to the east on the Fife coast or to the northwest up on Skye, the sun is shining brightly. But your stuck with what you have.
All this trying to plan things down to an hour here and two hours there is ridiculous.
Make a list of places that look like they will be of interest to you. Fly to Edinburgh or Glasgow and then WING IT from there. As the weather dictates, visit as many of them as you can comfortably get to.
Go to A and leave when you are ready to leave, not before. Whether you get to everywhere on your list or not (higly unlikely anyway unless as noted, all you do is drive up, snap a picture and drive away) is irrelevant. What should matter is whether you enjoy what you do on each day you have. Then you fly home leaving some things for next time.
It's supposed to be a vacation, not a route march. What do you think the word 'vacation' means? It partly means you leave scheduling life by the clock at home. You leave having a list of tasks to accomplish at home.
Again I say, paralysis by analysis.
All this trying to plan things down to an hour here and two hours there is ridiculous.
Make a list of places that look like they will be of interest to you. Fly to Edinburgh or Glasgow and then WING IT from there. As the weather dictates, visit as many of them as you can comfortably get to.
Go to A and leave when you are ready to leave, not before. Whether you get to everywhere on your list or not (higly unlikely anyway unless as noted, all you do is drive up, snap a picture and drive away) is irrelevant. What should matter is whether you enjoy what you do on each day you have. Then you fly home leaving some things for next time.
It's supposed to be a vacation, not a route march. What do you think the word 'vacation' means? It partly means you leave scheduling life by the clock at home. You leave having a list of tasks to accomplish at home.
Again I say, paralysis by analysis.
Jul 11th, 2013, 11:08 AM
#53
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This is all good improviser but travelling with kids means accommodations have to be in place - we cannot move along with the weather choosing to stay or go as we please as we cannot check out early from one lodging (and have to pay 100% room charges) when the weather is not cooperating and then arrive somewhere else (early) where the sun might be shining only to find there's no room at the Inn (which will definitely be the case as shown by availability).
We are not from Scotland - I have seen far more "ridiculous" questions than ours posted on Fodors, and as we have never been there, and are certainly not from there, all we can do is try and work and read, and understand how things work - what may seem ridiculous to you, is just us trying to learn about the place we are visiting, and that is purportedly the forum's intention.
We work, we have kids, we are not retired - we have timelines to follow, we need to ensure we have accommodations in place - we cannot throw our money to the "wind" when we find the weather is not complying. And if we did not apply some analysis, we would be flying through everything, seeing nothing, on a breakneck itinerary pulled together from "been there, done that" travel book. Its disappointing that we have faulted for trying on this forum.
We are not from Scotland - I have seen far more "ridiculous" questions than ours posted on Fodors, and as we have never been there, and are certainly not from there, all we can do is try and work and read, and understand how things work - what may seem ridiculous to you, is just us trying to learn about the place we are visiting, and that is purportedly the forum's intention.
We work, we have kids, we are not retired - we have timelines to follow, we need to ensure we have accommodations in place - we cannot throw our money to the "wind" when we find the weather is not complying. And if we did not apply some analysis, we would be flying through everything, seeing nothing, on a breakneck itinerary pulled together from "been there, done that" travel book. Its disappointing that we have faulted for trying on this forum.
Jul 11th, 2013, 11:32 AM
#54
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Our previous reply (prior to Improvisor's message) did not post. We will repost it here.
Please note note that the intention was not to go from Edinburgh airport to Wallace, then to L. Lomond, and then back to Stirling, before driving to Glencoe.
The intention was to go Edinburgh airport - Wallace M., then Stirling. Then proceed to Loch Lomond, and head up the A82 to Glencoe/Fort William area from there.
From Glencoe, we would go to Skye, then return to the mainland via Loch Ness, then Edinburgh.
If we skipped Skye, we would see only Falkirk and L. Lomond while on route to Glencoe. We would then go from Glencoe to the the Perthshire hills. From a base in the Perthshire Hills, we would see Stirling, W. Monument and other sites not yet covered.
For Falkirk - our reading suggested this was a drive by more than anything. We had no information of boats or anything more to see there - now we know.
Gardyloo offered an alternative and this would work great but unfortunately we have not found the accommodation on the right night to do this. What we have found is one night at Inverlochy (which may be gone now...). Though this would not give us the extra time we need near Stirling, it would enable us to attend an event we were hoping to get to in the Highlands nearby, and participate in some other activities we were trying to incorporate.
We have tried to make two routes similar to Gardyloo's - one for hitting Skye in the middle of the trip, the other for filling the middle with the Perthshire Hills instead. Included are overnight stops as well as sights to see - Gardyloo, thank you for teaching us to use this app:
http://goo.gl/maps/eMoSC
http://goo.gl/maps/5hYD8
Please note note that the intention was not to go from Edinburgh airport to Wallace, then to L. Lomond, and then back to Stirling, before driving to Glencoe.
The intention was to go Edinburgh airport - Wallace M., then Stirling. Then proceed to Loch Lomond, and head up the A82 to Glencoe/Fort William area from there.
From Glencoe, we would go to Skye, then return to the mainland via Loch Ness, then Edinburgh.
If we skipped Skye, we would see only Falkirk and L. Lomond while on route to Glencoe. We would then go from Glencoe to the the Perthshire hills. From a base in the Perthshire Hills, we would see Stirling, W. Monument and other sites not yet covered.
For Falkirk - our reading suggested this was a drive by more than anything. We had no information of boats or anything more to see there - now we know.
Gardyloo offered an alternative and this would work great but unfortunately we have not found the accommodation on the right night to do this. What we have found is one night at Inverlochy (which may be gone now...). Though this would not give us the extra time we need near Stirling, it would enable us to attend an event we were hoping to get to in the Highlands nearby, and participate in some other activities we were trying to incorporate.
We have tried to make two routes similar to Gardyloo's - one for hitting Skye in the middle of the trip, the other for filling the middle with the Perthshire Hills instead. Included are overnight stops as well as sights to see - Gardyloo, thank you for teaching us to use this app:
http://goo.gl/maps/eMoSC
http://goo.gl/maps/5hYD8
Jul 11th, 2013, 02:02 PM
#55
>>The intention was to go Edinburgh airport - Wallace M., then Stirling. Then proceed to Loch Lomond, and head up the A82 to Glencoe/Fort William area from there<<
But that is not what you posted - no surprise that we are mostly giving up. Your posts are sort of stream of consciousness and are VERY difficult to follow.
I gave you a reasonable itinerary. Gardyloo did as well. You need to focus - and NOT throw everything plus the kitchen sink into every post. It is VERY hard to hit a moving target. I don't agree w/ improviser (duh). 'Winging it ' w/ kids is difficult. I would pre-book every accommodation. However, DDay was easier to organize than this trek. Like agonizing about the difference between Tattoo seats that are about 50 feet from each other. You are getting buried in the details.
Look at a map, decide a route, book places (NOW since things are filling up), you are done. No matter WHERE you go you won't be able to so/see everything.
This is meant as tough love - you are trying to do too much and are offering TOO MANY options and we can't keep track . . .
Maybe put yourself on a limited word count and force yourself into being succinct and to the point???
But that is not what you posted - no surprise that we are mostly giving up. Your posts are sort of stream of consciousness and are VERY difficult to follow.
I gave you a reasonable itinerary. Gardyloo did as well. You need to focus - and NOT throw everything plus the kitchen sink into every post. It is VERY hard to hit a moving target. I don't agree w/ improviser (duh). 'Winging it ' w/ kids is difficult. I would pre-book every accommodation. However, DDay was easier to organize than this trek. Like agonizing about the difference between Tattoo seats that are about 50 feet from each other. You are getting buried in the details.
Look at a map, decide a route, book places (NOW since things are filling up), you are done. No matter WHERE you go you won't be able to so/see everything.
This is meant as tough love - you are trying to do too much and are offering TOO MANY options and we can't keep track . . .
Maybe put yourself on a limited word count and force yourself into being succinct and to the point???
Jul 11th, 2013, 10:10 PM
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No problem - tough loves is okay.
Janis definitely knows her stuff - I surmise that her and Improviser are secretly best friends ; )
Did anyone look at the two maps (one is similar to Gardyloo's).
Janis definitely knows her stuff - I surmise that her and Improviser are secretly best friends ; )
Did anyone look at the two maps (one is similar to Gardyloo's).
Jul 12th, 2013, 02:04 PM
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"it would enable us to attend an event we were hoping to get to in the Highlands nearby, and participate in some other activities we were trying to incorporate."
Yet more, 'let's throw this in to the mix'.
I don't agree kids make it necessary to pre-book. But whether you do or not doesn't matter to me. If you are uncomfortable with winging it, fine. But MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
I do agree with janisj about that. As I have said, you can't do it all so it really doesn't matter what you do or don't do unless you have some very strong preferences.
Frankly, for a first time visitor I wouldn't even suggest the Falkirk Wheel or Stirling or the Wallace Monument. They're just not that big a deal. I'd suggest 2 days spent on the Royal Mile in Edinburgh alone. A week in the highlands or on Skye. Times up. But where to go is up to you, you just have to PICK SOME and end the planning.
Yet more, 'let's throw this in to the mix'.
I don't agree kids make it necessary to pre-book. But whether you do or not doesn't matter to me. If you are uncomfortable with winging it, fine. But MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
I do agree with janisj about that. As I have said, you can't do it all so it really doesn't matter what you do or don't do unless you have some very strong preferences.
Frankly, for a first time visitor I wouldn't even suggest the Falkirk Wheel or Stirling or the Wallace Monument. They're just not that big a deal. I'd suggest 2 days spent on the Royal Mile in Edinburgh alone. A week in the highlands or on Skye. Times up. But where to go is up to you, you just have to PICK SOME and end the planning.
Jul 12th, 2013, 02:07 PM
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I should not that after leaving Scotland at age 7, I visited a dozen or so times for a week or two at at time and then eventually returned to live in Scotland for 6.5 years.
I still haven't seen everything of interest in Scotland. So how are you going to even manage the 'highlights' in 10 days?
Perhaps changing your thinking from visiting 'Scotland' would help. What if you think of visiting Edinburgh and Skye. That's it, two places, your choice.
I still haven't seen everything of interest in Scotland. So how are you going to even manage the 'highlights' in 10 days?
Perhaps changing your thinking from visiting 'Scotland' would help. What if you think of visiting Edinburgh and Skye. That's it, two places, your choice.
Jul 13th, 2013, 12:26 AM
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Improviser - you know Scotland so well - it is good to receive your reply.
Our reading here indicated that Stirling Castle was indeed a huge deal and one of the top five things to see in the country - the Falkirk Wheel is always noted as well. However, the guide books list Loch Ness up there in the ranks, despite our reading here on the forum that it is not the end-all either. All along, we were thinking we absolutely MUST get to these sites.
Your idea is a good one - something I considered doing early on - e.g. just visiting two spots (only Edinburgh, and only, e.g. Glencoe). My thinking originally was that sights like Falkirk and Stirling could be seen while on base in the city - I tried to find a self-catering option in the city (much easier for us this way for longer stays) but this did not work out.
Which brings me to the problem with planning in general - it is not usually like this, and I have not tended to post to forums, but this time around, the accommodations have been a problem. Having to design a trip around what's available (despite starting early on with planning) makes it tougher to work through things - especially when you are a newby.
The reason why we moved to three (rather than two) places to stay on the itinerary was Skye. Wherever we looked, this was the favoured stop for everyone who had been to Scotland. Travellers consistently have said that it is the one place the enjoyed most of all.
The reason why we looked at a one-night castle stay at the beginning of the trip was so we could add another night in Scotland - the availability seemed to be there, so...
Can you imagine the three and four-day itineraries to Scotland? Some travellers simply take day trips to Skye, especially on the tours.
Our reading here indicated that Stirling Castle was indeed a huge deal and one of the top five things to see in the country - the Falkirk Wheel is always noted as well. However, the guide books list Loch Ness up there in the ranks, despite our reading here on the forum that it is not the end-all either. All along, we were thinking we absolutely MUST get to these sites.
Your idea is a good one - something I considered doing early on - e.g. just visiting two spots (only Edinburgh, and only, e.g. Glencoe). My thinking originally was that sights like Falkirk and Stirling could be seen while on base in the city - I tried to find a self-catering option in the city (much easier for us this way for longer stays) but this did not work out.
Which brings me to the problem with planning in general - it is not usually like this, and I have not tended to post to forums, but this time around, the accommodations have been a problem. Having to design a trip around what's available (despite starting early on with planning) makes it tougher to work through things - especially when you are a newby.
The reason why we moved to three (rather than two) places to stay on the itinerary was Skye. Wherever we looked, this was the favoured stop for everyone who had been to Scotland. Travellers consistently have said that it is the one place the enjoyed most of all.
The reason why we looked at a one-night castle stay at the beginning of the trip was so we could add another night in Scotland - the availability seemed to be there, so...
Can you imagine the three and four-day itineraries to Scotland? Some travellers simply take day trips to Skye, especially on the tours.
