Katiehab

Just to put my Skye comments in perspective, I am from Maine, and originally from California. I have done the cross-the-US trip 6 times: twice in a car, four times in an RV. It used to take me an hour to get to work in LA every morning, and my house was 8 miles from my office. I agree that compared to that, Skye is not enormous, nor is it heavily populated, nor is it full of traffic. However, a four hour roundtrip to go what would look like not much distance on a map, is worth mentioning. It's less the "as the crow flies" distance, and more of the "everything is up one peninsula and down another" distance. Being a resident of Maine, which is in a similar situation, I should have known better I suppose, but I didn't really think of an island having peninsulas. I mention it here because the general "ahhh yes. It takes a long time" reaction we got to our surprise from the residents of Skye leads me to believe it is a common misconception.

travelGEEK: I loved Skye very very much, and we had a wonderful time and saw lots of beautiful things, including interesting wildlife, BUT we also loved Stirling and the Trossachs, and Blair Castle, and THOSE areas were very beautiful and had interesting wildlife. The best thing we did for ourselves was to not move around every single night... and that was traveling without children! I'm SURE whatever places you decide to stay, that you are going to have a wonderful time and see great things. Whatever you don't get to, you can see next time!

janisj

Katiehab: No need to justify yourself. You aren't the first one Improvisor has patted on the head >><i>There, there little girl. That is sweet but you really need to get out more.</i><<

<i>Most</i> of us understood exactly what you meant

janisj

travelGEEK_live: Don't stay in Ft William. It is a dump. Plus you will have already spent a few days in the area. If you want a break/stop over - look at near Callander or maybe Killin.

Callander is a great base for the Trossachs, Inchmahome, Stirling, Doune, Loch Lomomd, rivers/lochs/hikes, etc.

Improviser

"I mention it here because the general "ahhh yes. It takes a long time" reaction we got to our surprise from the residents of Skye leads me to believe it is a common misconception."

Yes, that was my point katie, it is considered a long drive and an enormous island. Perception is everything.

Janisj, get over yourself. No doubt I am probably too sophisticated for Fodors, so what. Have you never heard of 'slumming'?

Here's a great bargain hotel in the Pitlochry area(Blair Atholl) to try in the spring or fall. They do special 5 nights for the price of 3 every year. http://www.athollarmshotel.co.uk/spe...s/seasonal.htm
Works out at 25 GBP per person per night. A bargain indeed. It's a true highland hotel, even Queen Victoria stopped her for tea back in the day and right across the road is the Duke of Atholl's castle. Did anyone know he has the right by royal degree to maintain a standing army. The only private standing army in the UK I believe.

It's about 20 minutes north of Pitlochry and there are great hiking trails along the river between the two or from Blair Atholl up Glen Tilt to Braemar if you're really ambitious. It's 28 miles, done it a few times.

Of course there is little point in going to the Pitlochry area if you do not spend enough time to visit the Pitlochry Festival Theatre. One of the finest small theatres I've encountered anywhere in the world.

For a meal I recommend Fern Cottage. The owner/chef Rifat is from Turkey while his wife Karen is Pitlochry born and bred. The menu is truly mediterranean thanks to Rifat.

For a stay in Pitlochry itself I suggest the Craigatin House. It has one of the best breakfasts in Scotland in my opinon. For starters, they know what brown/wheat bread is and not all eggs come hard.

At the Atholl Arms (linked above) I once asked for brown toast for breakfast and the young girl answered, 'all toast is brown'. Umm, Canadians say brown bread while Americans generally say wheat bread but I don't think anyone calls white bread toasted, brown toast.

Besides knowing how to cook an egg over easy they also serve apple pancakes with bacon and maple syrup. That must be a one of in Scotland, it's the only one I've ever found. Makes choosing bacon and eggs vs. pancakes a really hard choice.

A stop in Kilin can be fun for a family as you can rent canoes at the north end of the village. They call them 'Canadian' canoes but don't let that fool you they're Old Town canoes which of course Katie can probably tell everyone are from Maine her current home state.

You can do a nice little paddle down the river into Loch Tay. A couple of little islands in the mouth of the river make a nice picnic lunch spot. Don't forget to take your Swiss Army Knife to open the wine.

Callandar is a kitsch tourist town full of low quality hillwalking(hiking) clothes stores and tourist gee gaws. The exception is CCW (Caledonian Country Wear) which sells quality waking gear and has a cute little cafeteria upstairs which would be good for kids.

Another really nice spot to visit is Ballater which is on the Royal Deeside. Interesting to see a bakery among other shops displaying royal warrants. Ballater is known for its royal connections.

The place to stay there of course is the one and only world's smallest Hilton hotel, The Craigendarroch. The hotel is nothing special but it does convey bragging rights to having stayed in the smallest Hilton and as if that wasn't enough it also has the tallest living Xmas tree in the UK right outside the front door. It is a redwood that was planted by the original owner of the house I belive. The guy who invented marmalade.

janisj

improvisor - you have posted on about 20 threads in the week you've been registered here - and have attacked/slammed/scorned/mocked other posters on at least half of them. So are you here because you've been kicked off all those other forums you prefer?

MissPrism

The old saying is that 100 miles is a long distance for a Briton and 100 years is a long time for an American.

Tastes do differ. I've been to the Edinburgh Festival several times for opera, concerts and plays. I haven't been to a single Fringe event and would need a general anaesthetic to attend the Tattoo. My Scottish husband is exactly the same.

Anyway, to return to the OP.
Loch Ness and Ben Nevis have good publicity agents,as does Glencoe but I personally would go somewhere like Torridan http://www.visittorridon.co.uk/
you've got beautiful lochs, wildlife and mountains that are not the equivalent of the M1. Skye is not far. You might even see a golden eagle.
The only downside in August would be the midgies. You will certainly need insect repellent. Oddly enough, Skin so Soft from Avon works for many people.

Improviser

Janisj, look in a mirror. You have posted on just about every thread I have replied to, to attack me.

I respond to threads as I see fit and leave it to the moderators to tell me if I am contravening some forum rule. I don't belive I have done so on any thread. Why don't you let the moderators do their job and not contravene their rules by making personal attacks on me?

I like that saying MissPrism, I've never heard it before. It makes the differences quite clear in a few words.

Skin so Soft is an interesting story. For decades, hikers/backpackers in N. America have used it for a mosquito repellant. Avon were very slow on the uptake as they never seemed to have figured out why it continued to be one of their best selling products for years. Finally, they caught on and guess what. They started selling Avon Mosquito Repellant (skin so soft). A bottle about 1/5th the size and 5 times the price of Skin so Soft. ;-)

Some more restaurant suggestions:

In Ediburgh if you get a hankering for a burger and fries the best I ever found was at Browns on George Street. For seafood, Fishers on Thistle Street. The ultimate for dinner in Edinburgh is of course The Witchery and it's also perhaps the ultimate as a place to stay the night.

The best fish and chips in all of the UK is to be found in Anstruther Fish Bar on the Fife coast. You'll find it easily, it's the place with the lineup outside every single day.

They won the UK's best award so many times they finally ask the judges to stop awarding it to them and let someone else have a chance. The original owners sold up about 10 years ago and the new owners spent a year in training before letting the old owners go. What did the old owners do with their million pounds they sold for? Retired to Spain where you guessed it, they opened a fish and chip shop.

On Skye the best place to stay and eat is the Kinloch Lodge. The restaurant is Michelin starred.

Finding a good steak anywhere in Europe can be a real challenge. The Balbirnie in Fife meets the challenge. You can also take a stroll in the grounds after to walk off the calories. Especially when the rhododendroms are in bloom which happens to be all year as different varies that bloom in different seasons were purposely planted to achieve that. I have visited in every month but have no reason to disbelieve them. No wonder it has won Scottish Wedding Hotel of the year in 7 out of the last 9 years.

Improviser

No edit function on this forum huh?

Should be rhodo varieties not varies and should be I have not visited in every month, not have visited.

travelGEEK_live

Have done some homework as Gardyloo's map presented another option. Part of our problem was getting to Skye and the Highlands while still having time to visit Stirling, Wallace Monument, Bo'Ness Motor Museum and Falkirk wheel. At first, we were starting in Glasgow, seeing the highlands and Skye, then going to to Edinburgh for this first Scotland trip. The long drive from Skye to Edinburgh along this route would leave little time for sightseeing, e.g. Stirling, etc.

Option 1 ("Gardyloo" Option):

Fly into Edinburgh Airport by 10:30 am - pick up car, start there. Stop off at the Falkirk Wheel, and Bo'Ness Museum, onto the Wallace Monument and then walk through Stirling Castle. Drive to Loch Lomond before checking into the Highlands. Visit Skye, and then see Eilean Donan, Loch Ness and then through Pitolchry, and over the Forth Bridge into Edinburgh.

Option 2 ("Perthshire" Option):

Fly into Glasgow Airport - pick up car, stop at Loch Lomond and drive onto our stay in the Highlands. Skip Skye, but visit Eilean Donan and Loch Ness (and maybe Fort Augustus) en route to nice cottage in the Perthshire Hills countryside. From there, visit Wallace Monument, Stirling, plus do a castle loop that includes Glamis, and check out some of the area's highland games. On route to Edinburgh, check out the Bo'Ness museum and Falkirk wheel, Forth Rail Bridge (?)

Option 3 ("Castle" Option):

Fly into Edinburgh airport, take "Gardyloo" plan to Loch Lomonde but then continue up the A82 and stay first night in Inverlochy Castle with activities on site. Next day check into Glencoe for the rest of our Highlands stay. From there, continue on either to Skye (Option 1) or Perthshire (2) for a stay, and then check into Edinburgh. On leaving Edinburgh, travel along Hadrian's Wall to Hexham and stay on the other side of the wall in an English castle for one night.

We were trying to arrange a castle option when we started planning this trip - even a stay for one night in a castle would be a huge deal. But we had trouble finding dates that would line up with the rest of our plans. If there are not too many stops on Itinerary 3, it might work. Adding one night overall to the itinerary (so 11 nights, not 10) would enable us to do this.

- Which is better? Starting Glasgow/ending Edinburgh or starting/ending Edinburgh?
- Which itinerary of these three works best and why?
- Which itinerary would you chose as part of your first ever (and possibly only) trip to Scotland?
- What do you think of the option of staying in Perthshire versus visiting Skye?
- Would it make more sense to go 3 Glencoe/4 Skye (or Perthshire) or 4 Glencoe/3 at the other?
- Doing the castles would mean dropping Edinburgh to two nights - any comments here?
- Any last comments on staying at a Lodge like Kinloch in Skye or a cottage in the North?

Would you spend a 3rd night Edinburgh at the expense of a castle stay or 4th night Skye?

We are concerned about the cottage on Skye as it is near a roadway - we cannot tell if not traffic is an issue on the north end of the island (for all we know, the lodges we have looked at might be just as close to the road). The road looks to be the A850 - will noise or privacy be concerns?

I'm not as savvy as some of you - I've made up itineraries on Google maps but how do I include them here for you? If you let me know I could post them here.

Once in Edinburgh, we are hoping to take in the Beginning of Time exhibit/museum, Camera Obscura, Edinburgh castle (canon sounding) and crown jewels, Elephant House (for lunch), Arthur's Seat, if time, Holyrood (is it worth it - there is some speculation...). Also writer's museum, and a few small shops. Evenings will mostly be a write-off. This is a lot so we realize we may have to pare the list down - any ideas for the must sees?

Mimar

Travelgeek, are you arriving in Scotland after a long overnight flight? If so, jumping into a rental car is for anything but a very short drive is not advised. You'll be sleepy and jet-lagged. Spend some time in your arrival city.

On Skye, I wouldn't worry about noisy traffic at night on the road outside your cottage. The roads are very quiet, especially on the north end.

Re: Google maps. You can make the maps public and post their links. But I don't think that's necessary.

janisj

>>We are concerned about the cottage on Skye as it is near a roadway - we cannot tell if not traffic is an issue on the north end of the island (for all we know, the lodges we have looked at might be just as close to the road). The road looks to be the A850 - will noise or privacy be concerns?<<

Uh - No. You will laugh about having asked this once you have been there . . .

travelGEEK_live

Okay - thank you for the note - good to know the roads are quiet.

Also thought - another option would be to take only two nights on Skye (this would give us 3 Glencoe, 2 Skye (but on the north end in a Lodge/Inn), then a Scotland castle night for 1 night, 3 nights in Edinburgh, and 1 night in a castle on the other side of the wall.

So many ways of doing this - we're a bit lost as to the best way to spend our time.

Anyone had a chance to think about the itineraries posted?

Is anyone able to comment on the itineraries or help with the questions noted?

Again, any reply would be great as we are booking transportation right away.

Adding the castle ets us moving around more in terms of overnighting, but we have never stayed in a castle - we are looking at Langley and Inverlochy so it would be good to know if they would be worth giving up a night or two somewhere else, like Skye, Glencoe, or Edinburgh.

travelGEEK_live

Hey Mimar - BTW, we would already be in the UK but would just have to get up early to fly down to Edinburgh (or Glasgow). Good thinking though - it would never work after an overseas flight.

janisj

IMO - you need more rather than less time on Skye. It is a large island w/ slow (sometimes VERY slow) roads. It takes time just getting from place to place let alone all the fabulous walks/hikes/sites. You really don't have time to add to Skye - but I certainly wouldn't cut it any . . .

As for your new itinerary options . . .

#2 isn't great (bad actually) in that you are including Eilean Donan and Loch Ness but omitting Skye. Eilean Donan is merely a very pretty photo stop. The castle is not worth paying to go inside. And Loch Ness is about the 50th most attractive loch in all of Scotland (if that high)

#1 is OK - but just so you know one doesn't just 'walk through' Stirling Castle. It is a 2.5-3 hour stop.

#3 is pretty similar to #1 except you are now including northern England, which a whole different topic.

I have a hard time getting through all the other 'stuff' since you seem to be throwing lots of ideas against a wall and seeing what sticks. Don't over think so much.

One thing - in ANY case, you don't want to be driving immediately after getting off an overnight flight. So if you are flying in long haul you'll really want at least a day to decompress/recover from jet lag before heading out. That would most likely mean front loading Edinburgh (or Glasgow) and do it at the beginning car-less.

travelGEEK_live

Thank you for replying janis -about overseas flights- we'll be in England a full week to start.

Originally, it was 16 nights England total/10 Scotland:

-5 nights London
-6 in Wiltshire
-to Scotland early am after check-out
-2 nights Lakes nights
- London for 3 nights before the trip home

So we have some "padding" on both ends of the trip to Scotland.

What we are thinking of doing now is trimming London to 4 nights at the beginning since we are going back at the end. By trimming a night there, we could add a night to our time in Scotland.

So this would give us 15 nights England, 11 nights Scotland (14 days/10 days). Comments?

We would arrive in Scotland a day earlier than planned - this is where the castle comes in, as the castle in the Highlands is open on that particular night (for now) so this would afford us a castle stay. Our existing lodgings are full that night so going straight there to begin the Scotland trip would not work (had we been able to do this, the extra night could have been added to Skye, or to Edinburgh, later on in the trip). Does this make sense? Tough to explain.

We are including N. England in our plans either way - when we leave Edinburgh, we will drive along the area of Hadrian's Wall so we can sightsee on the way to the Lakes - we hope to stop off at Vindolanda, Housesteads, and a few other places along the way - we will go through Carlisle, take our rest stop at the Lakes, then head to London to finish.

Another three nights would be great (add one to Skye, one to Edinburgh, and take the castle stay in Hexham for a night so we are not so rushed passing along Hadrian's Wall country) but the last part of the trip cannot be adjusted. Hope this adds some helpful info.

Any other comments? Knowing the area already, how would you stack the itinerary to create the best experience for a new traveller to the country seeing it for the first (and perhaps only) time? Also, any other responses to the questions in our post above?

Pressing questions right now are:

- do we add the extra night in Scotland at the expense of an extra night in London or Wiltshire? - do we start our Scotland trip in Glasgow and try to catch Stirling and nearby sites later?
- or do we start in Edinburgh, try to see Stirling and the sites listed above at the start?
- do we chose Skye or Perthshire countryside for our time in the middle
- how many nights each stop?

Good thing you replied janis - Eilean Donan sounds like the "end all" from what I have read, and a couple of the books I have read placed Loch Ness in Scotland's top 10 must-see experiences : )

Based on your recommendation, if we skip Skye completely, and use Perthshire to access Stirling and see some Highland Games, we would take a pass on Eilean Donan and make up for it by stopping at the castle on the shores of Loch Ness when passing by.

Another option exists, but I am not sure it is wise to give up the chance to visit Skye based on what we've heard, especially if we may never return, but here goes: Glencoe 3-4 night, Edinburgh 3-4 nights, with 1-2 castle visits at the beginning or middle, and 1 at the end.

janisj

>>Based on your recommendation, if we skip Skye completely, and use Perthshire to access Stirling and see some Highland Games, we would take a pass on Eilean Donan <<

Ok. I'm getting really confused here. Where did I recommend skipping Skye? Eilean Donan is a very nice photo op - but going there or no has no bearing at all on whether one visits Skye.

Only you can decide if you'd rather go to Skye or not. It is fantastic - as are many other parts of Scotland.

enzian

Bookmarking. . .

sofarsogood

Travel geek this is all very confusing, It seems you're getting bogged down in the minutiae but what's the bigger picture?

Tells us what's fixed and can't be changed, and the ONE itinerary YOU want to do so can get feedback on the practicalities of that. At the moment you're not getting the best response because its not clear what you want.

travelGEEK_live

Oops - sorry about that Janis - poorly worded on my part.

I was referring to travelling to Eilean Donan without moving further on to explore Skye. What I should have said was that going all that way to see ED without carrying onto Skye may not be the best idea for us, so if we skipped Skye, we would skip ED as well - working today (Sunday) and a bit rushed so posts are not so clear.

Bookmarking...Enzian - I am not sure what this is about. Can anyone elaborate?

Sofarsogood - The ONE itinerary we would like has too many days - this is what makes it difficult. We fell into this trips looking at the travel books that suggested we could cover everything we are looking at in 7 nights/1week. The more we learned on our own, the more we appreciated that it would be crazy to try and do that.

Sofarsogood - thank you for the feedback - I will try to be more clear - have to finish work and rush off to a wedding so hope to reply again shortly.

janisj

>>Bookmarking...<<

Bookmarking is enzian's way to find the thread again.