girlspytravel:

I'm not sure how you "know" that the Sorbonne programme is only a language course, since this statement is a) inconsistent with what people posting on this discussion thread have said about the Sorbonne course they attended; and b) inconsistent with the description on the Sorbonne's website: http://www.ccfs-sorbonne.fr/sommaire.php3?lang=en

One of the reasons for attending the Sorbonne's language and civilisation course is because it has a general lecture/culture component, in addition to French language classes. The school does offer courses at all levels. It also seems to have some arrangements with some US universities regarding college credit.

The downside, from what I've heard from some people investigating the school, is that the fees are relatively high for non-residents.

Christina mentioned fle.fr. This organisation is like the Souffle website I mentioned. These are quality associations of French language schools. Schools are required to meet certain standards to belong. I think (but I'm not sure) that Souffle's standards are stricter than FLE's - perhaps because Souffle actually inspects schools.

Kate, (sigh!) since you seem to want to engage in polemic about nothing-the Sorbonne's summer programs may well have a cultural component, but it is primarily a university, state-funded, in the business of educating students for college credit and graduation.

It is NOT primarily a language school for foreigners, the latter of which are private schools (other than AF, which is state funded) specifically set up as an introduction for foreigners to both the language AND the culture-with a FULL program on both parts, that can comprise anywhere from two weeks to one year or more. Although Sorbonne programs may well have culture/literature courses- I doubt whether they are for the beginner-however at a language school, they have such classes in which beginners can take part in a wide variety of interesting and enjoyable classes, including cooking courses. This is why I say that good language schools go well beyond the scope of most university language programs-because they serve a very different purpose, and employ a different niche in the foreign language learning environment.

Another voice re the Sorbonne -- I attended the Sorbonne civilisation etc course for foreigners, and they are not just language. However, I was not a beginner, I was near the top level with college and high school French teachers, so I did have some other type classes (French literature and architecture, etc.).

I am pretty sure that it would be only language for someone who didn't know French, though. After all, if you don't know French, you wouldn't be able to understand a class in French. I'm not positive about that, but I don't think they have any classes in English for rank beginners who don't know enough French to understand lectures in French. After all, this course is not just for English speakers, they have people from all over the world (although maybe half of my class was Americans or Canadians or British). I seem to recall that the extra courses I took were "electives" and these were only available to people who places above a certain level.

I don't think intex ever posted the language ability of her sons. If they have taken French 4-6 years or ewere very good in French, then they could be taking classes other than French language in those Sorbonne classes. However, since she says they want to take the year off to learn French, I have a suspicion they may not know much at all. There were some college French majors in my classes who were in their senior year, for example.

The fees at the Sorbonne when I went were really really cheap and I was a foreigner. They are really cheap for their language classes for foreigners because the French govt wants to spread the gospel of French, so to speak, and subsidizes the teaching of French to foreigners. They may not be cheap for regular class outside that program, but these kids couldn't qualify for anything like that, anyway, I'm sure. Courses at the College de France are basically free, and if they really did know French very well, they could go there (little known trivia fact, the American actor Bill Murray took a year off to take classes at the College de France and one of his children was born in Paris).

If you don't know French, I do think the AUP might be the only place to take classes in English. I know there are some business graduate schools and things where that might occur, but not at the level being sought for these kids.

I did also attend a private French language school just to brush up once and have fun, and they might have classes for beginners in some cultural things, but I don't think they would qualify for college credit, especially for a freshman. Older students sometimes can get things as "independent studies", but not freshmen or kids not even enrolled in a college. FWIW, this is the private school I attended in Paris and it was excellent
http://www.institut-parisien.com

They do have some "civilisation" classes once a week, and a few other things, but say those are not for beginners. They arrange housing and are a good school, and reasonable in fees. But for beginners, you would be spending fulltime in language classes (about 20 hours a week) in most courses. I don't know that it would be preferable in any way for a beginner, though.

Anyway, just to mention some of the foyer assns. and links I know, here are some, but most are totally in French, of course. Most have age limits and various places have limits on whether they are only for males or females, etc., and some are only for young workers, some only for students, etc. Many do have cultural outings or activities for their residents, but they do not arrange the school or work for the person staying they. They are just residences. I think the important thing is to decide on a program and then they will often have ties or recommend places to stay.

this is the Assn des Residences et Foyers de Jeunes www.arfj.asso.fr

This is a list of all foyers in the 6th (on the mayor's website)
http://www.mairie6.paris.fr/mairie6/...jsp?page_id=90

This is the Assn des Foyers des Jeunes Travailleurs www.aljt.com

This is a list by the U of Paris of all private foyers in the Ile-de-France
http://www.univ-paris12.fr/64892748/...e___pagelibre/

There are many more foyers for young ladies than men or mixed sexes. In short, I think there are plenty of housing options, and the key thing is to figure out the main activity and how to do it (whether school, working, etc.). There are websites that may be of more help in that regard, and may be listing under volunteer work. Students of that age can get some temporary work permits for a year, as I understand it. Here is one example of options

www.volunteerabroad.com

Here is a French organization in Provence where you work doing historical site preservation and restoration, but also have time for hiking, cultural activites, etc.
http://www.sabranenque.com/

It only has four month projects, it looks like, but that's just an example of the kinds of things available.

Actually, you CAN get some college credit through private language schools such as Eurocentres-but there are some limitations there, and they do not transfer as easily as credit from an accredited university.

However, the Sorbonne programe simply does not have the cultural components, and indeed, the close mentoring of the best of the language school programs, where you have a teacher taking you on guided visits to sights around town during the week, and also guided trips on the weekend, to places such as Rheims, Chartres or Mont St. Michel, in addition to having afternoon programs filled with art, film, and other cultural classes-but many many outside trips for fun and educational value. That is why I suggest this type of school for your kids, they'll get a lot more enjoyment from this environment than they would at a more structured, traditional university program, I think, which isn't going to have these types of extensive, teacher-guided activities, as they are not set up for that purpose.

Language institutes such as Eurocentres ARE geared for beginners through the most advanced language levels, and NONE of them are conducted in English, that's the whole purpose of going to a French language school-to learn French and to learn its culture, and the best do a very good job indeed. There have a number of people I have noticed on this board whose children have gone to Eurocentres in Paris and have highly recommended it, as I do, and I am a former full scholarship graduate student in foreign languages and literature-so I like to think I know a little something about these things- and I do think a private language school of this type would be the type of foreign language learning environment that your kids would find most enjoyable at their age, as well as educational.

You may want to peruse this website, Intex, which provides a brief description and link to nearly every French language program available in Paris, both university and private language school instruction:

http://www.studyabroad.com/programs/...rench_in_paris

girlspytravel:

Congratulations on your scholarship.

As for "polemic about nothing", I was simply questioning your broad and apparently unsubstantiated assertion that the Sorbonne does not offer a culture programme alongside its language courses. If you checked the web link, you would see that it does, in fact, offer a language and culture program for beginners. While you are correct in stating that it is not primarily a language school for foreigners, it does appear to have had this as part of its mandate for a very long time (dating back to 1919). Of course, I would agree that the more French you know, the more you'll be able to take advantage of programmes offered in the Sorbonne environment. The debutant course that my colleague's girlfriend is taking at a beginner level incorporates only 3 hours of "civilisation" per week.

I was encouraging lntex's kids to look at the Sorbonne programme because I found that in most of the foreign language programmes I've attended that were not associated with universities (8 schools - French and Spanish), the promised "cultural programmes" were rather lightweight. The exception was Millefeuille Provence (but that is not a school for beginners, or pre-college students).

Indirectly, you make a good point about programmes and that is regarding the level of mentoring and personal attention at the schools. I have not attended Eurocentres but I'm always on the lookout for a good school (since I live in Paris and continue to try to improve my French). lntex - something you should pay very close attention to when you investigate schools is the student-teacher ratio (what they promise, and what they deliver) for the classes. Some schools are relatively inexpensive (AF, for one) but these schools often have large classes. A school with fewer students per class and a well-organised programme of "mentored" activities will deliver more bang for the buck than a cheap school with large classes.

Finally, I would recommend that, if the kids don't speak any French at all yet, they should start studying now. Although they might be busy with final year studies and activities, it would be a worthwhile investment for them to take a night course at the local Alliance Francaise, high school or a college (or even to find a tutor). Not for credit, so there's no pressure, but just so that they can cover the basics. If they arrive in France with no French whatsoever, there is a greater risk that they'll fall in with a completely anglophone peer group and never really speak French. If they have a little French under their belts, they might be more inclined to start speaking French from day one. Taking some French now also will also them to try out the language learning experience and show that they're committed to learning French when they get here. (I have a very intelligent friend, with a graduate degree, who was surprised to discover that she's a complete blockhead when it comes to learning foreign languages. She's tried several times and just seems to lack the aptitude. She once said to me, as I was embarking on another language holiday, that she had once thought of taking a semester off to study Spanish and was grateful not to have done so because she realises now that she would have found it extremely difficult and not very rewarding because she finds language learning so difficult.)