colonna

I just returned from a four-month trip to France, Belgium, Italy and Greece (and it was wonderful). When I booked my FF ticket last summer, I had never heard of the Schengen 90-day rule, and the airline didn't mention it; just before I left, I read something about it on this board, but I didn't change the trip-- I went ahead, with mild trepidation.


Absolutely nothing happened until I was set to leave Athens at 8:00 AM last week, when the exit control man scanned my passport repeatedly, asked me when I'd arrived in a "member country," scolded me and told me not to do it again. He said, "If I want to come to the US, I ask how long I can stay. You must ask." But he didn't say who to ask (France? Belgium? the president of the EU?), and I was eager to get out and just thanked him.

My questions are: If you are not in any place long enough to get a visa, is there any way to travel around the EU for more than 90 days? and (rhetorical) How is a person supposed to know about this rule? Friends who live in Europe had never heard of it, though I guess they would have no reason to. It did seem that the airline might have asked me if I knew I might be in violation.

Also, what is the purpose of the rule?

quokka

You were really lucky to get away without a fine and an entry in your passport.

When travelling to a foreign country, it's the traveller's duty (who else's?) to check in advance if there are any visa rules to observe, isn't it?
Any travel guide book, the website of any embassy, any country's tourist information website contains this kind of information.

sheila

1. Yes. get a visa before you leave.

2. Ignorantia iuris neminem excusat

3. It's the law. It's to control entry to a country.

Nonconformist

You're supposed to apply for a visa before you arrive, from the first Schengen country you plan to visit. Then it's valid in all the others. And not to be unsymaptehtic, but it's your responsibilty to organise what visas or otehr entry clearance you need. You seem to have got away with it this time, as it doesn't sound as if they've blacklisted you.

Purpose: to stop people from coming with the intention of working illegally, basically. Few tourists with jobs at home can spare more than three months for a trip.

colonna

I do feel lucky, under the circumstances. But it was not hard to miss this news-- a slightly outdated guidebook wouldn't have had it, and I didn't see it in the paper. I've spent a lot of time on tourist websites (not embassy ones, I'll admit), without seeing this warning, just encouragement to visit. I knew I couldn't stay in any particular country, but didn't realize there was a new rule applying to all EU countries.

Passerine

You joined Fodors in 2007. Since then, there have been many posts about the rules of staying in the Schengen zone (do a simple search). So how can you honestly report it was "not hard to miss" this news? Especially when you admit you DID hear about it on Fodors? You were very lucky that the Greek official was so permissive.

traveller1959

After I have slaughtered my wife, I was very surprised that I was imprisoned.

I did not know that it was forbidden to murder one's wife. How is a person supposed to know about this rule?

Alec

As everyone has said, it's up to you to find out about any entry rules applying to you in any country or group of countries you visit, and abide by them. You did overstay in Schengen by a month. Greek authorities let you continue on your return journey, but they could have thrown the book at you - usually a ban from returning to Schengen for 5 years.
The fact none of your friends knew about Schengen rule isn't surprising. They probably have a long-term visa, permanent residency or EU passport so they are exempt from 90-in-180 day rule (strictly speaking, if you have a long-stay visa for one Schengen state, your stay in other Schengen countries is limited to 90-in-180 days, but in practice hardly anyone cares).
Remember Schengen and EU aren't the same - some countries not in EU are in Schengen (Switzerland, Norway, Iceland etc) and some EU countries have opted out of Schengen (e.g. UK, Ireland, so separate rules apply).

Otzi

So in the future we should be contacting the Lithuanian Law Society of America to read every book in their library prior to visiting? I just love the holier-than-thou attitude some of you people have. The OP was simply asking for help and advice; not asking for a scolding from internet parents. If I go to a country that prohibits passing wind on the street I deserve to go to prison because I didn't read up on all the nation's laws?

daveesl

This is another example of the people on this board going into attack mode on a post. The OP posed a legitimate question. Yes, some of the comments are to the point--you should know the basic regulations and laws of where you are going to travel. But let's get real, there are all kinds of things that are ok in one place and can land you in jail in another.

traveller1959

Sorry, but the OP's post was outright arrogant and insulting.

Each country on this planet has admission and immigration rules - the USA have some of the strictest on earth (last December at Chicago airport, my son was interrogated for one hour by heavily-armed U.S. immigration officers just because he had an Egyptian stamp in his passport - he had joined us for a Nile cruise).

Foreign visitors are regularly humiliated and harassed by U.S. immigration officers and OP is complaining that the Schengen countries require a visum if someone stays longer than three (!) months! How arrogant can people be?

JulieVikmanis

ok, I'll admit to being as ignorant as the OP about Schengen rules regardless of how many times it's been posted about here. Now you have my attention. And I have what is probably a very stupid or obsessive question. We travel to Europe several times a year, never for anything like 90 days or more but I've just tallied up the amount of time we're likely to be there for all the trips we have scheduled and if we take one more, we could go over the limit--provided the limit is 90 days in a year (not if it's 90 days in 180) Our longest trip is 19 days and these trips are spread over a full year with a month or even two or three in between. Should I be worried about getting a visa?

thursdaysd

I'm with traveller1959 - before you visit another country, you check the visa rules. Preferably on the embassy web site. You never know - I figured I didn't need a visa for Australia when I was using my British passport - I was wrong. Fortunately that's a visa you can get at the airport as you board the plane (in Indonesia, no less!), but if I'd been stuck it would have been my own fault.

Alec

JulieVikmanis

You are fine. The limit is 90 days in any continuous period of 180 days.

flanneruk

So which is it?

Colonna's too lazy to read the stamp in his or her passport? But still feels entitled to whinge.

Or the useless tossers in the Schengen system can't be bothered stamping passports to tell visitors when they're supposed to get out? But still feel entitled to lecture us for not wanting to have anything to do with their xenophobic - and clearly ill-communicated- stunt.

Either way: thank God (or rather our Government, which most certainly isn't God) we're not in it.

ira

Hi Col,

You are allowed to visit any or all of the Schengen countries of 90 days.

You must leave for 90 days before reutrning for up to 90 days.

spaarne

The Schengen Agreement was initiated in 1985. The purpose was to make it easier for nationals of countries who needed a visa to get one visa which would be valid in Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, and France. Prior to this they needed to get a separate visa for each country.

Americans do not need a visa for these countries, nor for the other 20 or so countries which now accept the Schengen visa, for stays of up to 90 days. Back in the old days Americans could jump over the border somewhere on the 89th day, get a stamp in the passport, and continue on for another 90 days. Now it's 90 days in a 180 day period for all of the Schengen countries. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law, but where is the list of Schengen countries posted that an innocent American can handily find, much less, except for specialized travel sites like Fodor's, how would anybody even know that such a thing as the Schengen zone exists.

It looks like the OP hit the wrong immigration cop, who then had a change of heart. I have overstayed Schengen 3 or 4 times by months and was never advised of the fact as I left Holland.

BTW, my entry stamp at London last month gives me 6 months in the UK, and adds "Employment and access to public funds prohibited." The UK and Ireland are not members of the Schengen Zone.

nancicita

I'm shocked that one could book travel to Europe for a 4-month stay without ever thinking about visa requirements.

colonna, why did you wait so long to find out about the rules?
You should have contacted the consulate of the country that you are traveling to well in advance of your departure date to sort out details and ask questions.

visas are required for many nationals of other countries (for example, Chinese nationals) who want to travel to the Schengen states. Those of us with American passports are lucky that we have a 90-day visa waiver. It is a privilege, not a right, for US passport holders to be able to travel to Schengen. Having this privilege does not entitle Americans to being completely ignorant about visa policies.

colonna, you're very lucky that you didn't get ARRESTED and DEPORTED by the Foreign Police!

yk

Every guidebook I've ever bought or borrowed from the library, has a section on Visa/Entry requirements. It's not rocket science.

TravMimi

Many people don't know about it, or need to know about it, but the OP was aware of something about it, and did state:

..I read something about it on the board, but didn't change the trip -- I went ahead, with mild trepidation.

There goes that sympathy factor. Sorry