Schengen Rule

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Oct 23rd, 2017, 12:59 PM
  #1
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Schengen Rule

I recently retired and am planning an independent 15-16 month trip through Europe, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia & Morocco. I understand that I can only be in the Schengen area for 90 out of 180 days. My question is about whether or not I can keep leaving and then returning. Also, since I won't have a definitive itinerary, is it possible to fly into Amsterdam or Brussels with a one way ticket or will I need a return flight? I am a Canadian citizen. Thanks for your help!
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 01:15 PM
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The definitive itinerary would kind of be the issue. You don't know where you're going next?

Usually you need proof of onward travel. It doesn't need to be a return ticket, but if they were to ask you when you're leaving, "I don't know" is probably not an acceptable answer.

I'm also not sure what you mean by returning and leaving. Do you mean you plan to use one country as a hub? I wouldn't think backtracking would make much sense.
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 01:25 PM
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I meant I didn't want to return to Canada, but rather spend the next 90 days in non-Schengen countries and then back into Schengen territory and keep that going. I'm only just beginning to explore so that's the reason for my questions. If I have a hotel booking in Berlin, for example, will that satisfy immigration in Brussels?
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 02:35 PM
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Basically, yes -- you can stay 90 days and come back after the 180 days has run. Or you can stay less than 90 days and come back for other period as long as the total in-Schengen doesn't exceed 90 in 180.

However that is just what is allowed - not what is guaranteed. You get up to 90 days at the discretion of the immigration officer. Probably 99% of the time that is what you'll get no prob -- but if they see multiple entries/exits and suspect you might be working or something they may ask more probing questions.
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 04:09 PM
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Brussels and Berlin are both Schengen. (I thought?) So a hotel in Berlin doesn't prove you'll be leaving Schengen. A train ticket from Paris to London, or a plane ticket from Berlin to Egypt is proof of onward travel.

No, you don't have to go back to Canada. You just have to avoid Schengen until you can re-enter.

Like Janis said, nothing is guaranteed, but most of the time you'd have no problem, especially if you have satisfactory answers to their questions. The only people I've hear of having issues are usually young backpackers or people who appear to be trying to violate the terms of a tourist visa. I didn't get any questions at all, and I had two one way tickets from different airlines. One passport check when I entered Schengen, one passport check when I left Schengen. No one checks your passport between Schengen countries, a train from Brussels to Berlin is like a flight from Vancouver to Toronto. I'd heard there were supposed to be extra security when landing in Paris, so maybe there are exceptions, but I didn't encounter any.
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 05:30 PM
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Normally there are no ID checks but they can happen. Sept I flew with in Spain so no borders crossed and on landing had my ID checked. Kind of irritating the flight was already late and I risked missing my transfer.

If you're routinely entering the risk is somebody noticing and wondering what's up. It's legal but the possibility is you're working or otherwise illegal in Europe and trying to skirt the rules.

But as mentioned if you're mature the odds are much less .

Unless things have changed if you're away that long won't the province drop your health coverage? Glancing at the OHIP page you'd lose coverage.

You'll need to setup things like banking and even tax payment. These days it's not that hard but you'll need to do it in advance.

Unless you've got somebody at home to do things like this plus bill payments you'll likely want a laptop. Something else to haul.
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 05:37 PM
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>>If I have a hotel booking in Berlin, for example, will that satisfy immigration in Brussels?<<

>>So a hotel in Berlin doesn't prove you'll be leaving Schengen. <<

I think you may be talking past each other. I didn't read that as asking if staying in Berlin qualifies as leaving Schengen. I understood it to be "If I have a hotel booked in Berlin, will they let me enter Schengen via immigration in Brussels?"

Basically -- just keep precise track of your days in Schengen (event a few hours counts a as one of your 90 days out of 180). It sounds like you have a lot of flexibility, and if it was me I wouldn't do exactly 90 in, 90 out, 90 in and so on. I'd think that would look suspicious after 2 or 3 entries. I'd try to mix it up a bit.
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 08:57 PM
  #8
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Thanks so much for your responses. This will be much more difficult than the six months I just spent bussing throughout Mexico, all of Central America, and then exploring Colombia & Cuba. The only country that wanted proof of exit was Costa Rica and I was allowed 90 days in each country. None of my friends/family had ever heard of the Schengen rule and some still don't believe it as so many backpacked for a year in Europe in their youth. I was hoping to be a little freer and spontaneous, but I guess that will be difficult. I will plan accordingly. I never leave home without my iPad and yes, I'll have to reapply for my healthcare, but I was told that's a simple process that I can do upon my return. As for taxes, they only care about people who owe money and luckily, I don't fall into that category so I can file late.
Thanks again...this really helped!
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 09:55 PM
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Good.
Just a word of cautious. Don't expect immigration officers to be comprehensive.
I once had to intercede for Turkish workers who had gotten a visa via Switzerland to work in belgium. They spent one night in jail and were sent back home.
That immigration guy could not care less.

Now as for your friends not believing Europe has become so strict you can always tell them that we don't understand US building a wall on their frontier. ;-)
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 10:03 PM
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I have certainly seen and been through spot checks on passports within Schengen, on the trains passing through Austria from Italy to Germany. They were obviously looking for false documents, and on one occasion took off a group of young men; but could no doubt be pernickerty about anybody's documents if they chose.
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 10:22 PM
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You'll save money on transport if you're being less spontaneous. Buying tickets ahead of time can sometimes save you a lot of money. And you may want a general map out of places to go, so you can be aware of events that might effect lodging availability or crowds. I've no idea if you're doing hostels, but availability may be tricky if you hit, say, Venice during Carnival or Strasbourg during the Christmas Markets. If you have money or you're less picky, it matters less. Chinese tourism has really begun to take off, and some places have really intense crowd problems. I would avoid Venice during cruise ship season, for example. You also may want to prebuy tickets to museums so you aren't disappointed or waste time waiting in line. I enjoy spontaneity but not when it means waiting an hour plus in the sleet.

I have so missed the spectacle of you shooting American fish in the global barrel, Pariswat. I fear you may be out of practice due to your long absence. That was entirely too obvious. Much like Trump's unlikely-to-ever-be-finished wall.
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 11:22 PM
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Pernickety ? Nice word

Marvellous I am losing the habit I am afraid. I stay away from these discussions now do made a list of posters best to avoid. . So I am down to just humorous traits. No longer murderous tirades. But my own self will not change

I did post a totally non conflictual thread under the form of a quizz !
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Oct 23rd, 2017, 11:26 PM
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IIRC the treaty dates from 1995 (1996?) prior to that each country had it's own time limits. In addition the zone has repeatedly been enlarged. Even the Swiss entered a few years ago.

The UK isn't part of the zone. It's also got quite a few low cost airlines servicing it's larger airports.

It's likely easier to find a one way from North America to London,Dublin and Lisbon then many other countries.

Norwegian air. Tap. Both offer one way tickets at reasonable costs. The full service carriers will charge you more for a one way then a return
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Oct 24th, 2017, 12:11 AM
  #14
 
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You can use this website to keep a track of your Schengen visa days. https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vis...calculator.htm

Remember the day you enter and the day you leave count as full days for the allowance.

The database is improving all the time and your days in Schengen will be noted on a central database. It is no longer the case that Italy say will turn a blind eye to overstayers.
There are regular checks on trains and at road borders now, and random checks on flights too.
Not all countries in Schengen are in the EU, likewise not all countries in the EU are in Schengen.
It doesn't have to mean you cannot be spontaneous in your travel, but you do have to be aware of your allowance.

You need to be sure you have health care coverage for your entire trip. Not any travel insurances will cover such a long trip, and your home health care may not cover you for all eventualities whilst travelling. European (and north African) health care systems will not pay for your care, you will be expected to pay for it yourself.
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