DaniGirlTravels

Oh my! I have been sitting in front of my computer now for 3 days straight and I am starting to crumble. Planning this trip has started to overwhelm me. My father is flying in to meet me in 2 weeks and I need to have this scheduled with hotels booked. He is older and doesn't not walk so well, but if we go slow, he should manage. I am bringing a wheel chair "just incase". I am currently in Belgium. Please help with any advice you might have. We will be taking trains the whole way.

This is what I have so far.

We are going from Brussels, to Brugge, to Caen (Normandy, bc he is a war veteran). From there we are going to work our way to Rome.

I thought it might be a good to fly from Paris to Rome and work our way back to Belgium (thought it would be easier on my dad), but my husband thinks it's silly, that we should enjoy our time (because we have it) and take a train through France and that breaking the trip up in 4 hour segments and sitting on trains should not be hard on my dad at all.

1. Do you agree with my hubby? Do you think we should skip the flight from Paris to Rome and work our way down like my husband suggested? Or hop on a cheap Ryanair flight to Rome and work our way up with our planned destinations?

The first place I wanted to show him after France would be Cinque Terre

2. If we did take the train down, what places would you suggest we stop between Normandy, France and Cinque Terre? (I've seen Paris, so something different would be helpful) and because of my dad, easily accessible off the train.

3. Also, which part of Cinque Terre & Beach would be easiest on my dad's walking experience?

From Cinque Terre I thought the next stops would be Rome, Florence, Venice, and then Lucerne Switzerland. I am trying not to spend too much time on the trains because of my dad.. to you think Venice to Lucerne might be to long??? Do you suggest something in between?

Since we are working our way back to Belgium, and he really wants to see a German concentration camp I thought we would then go from Lucerne, Switzerland to Munich to visit Dachau then off to Cologne and back home to Brussels. (We've already seen Amsterdam)

I would appreciate any help and suggestions!!!!! Thanks in advance!!!!!! it's tough lining up the exact days with all the hotels in advance. If you could also suggest any nice budget hotels or budget eats for these places that would be great too. Thanks again for ANY help!

zoecat

How many nights of travel are you planning?

DaniGirlTravels

We will start off in Brugge June 21 - 23
Normandy June 23 - 24
and we can travel until about July 12th

and I thought it would be good to get dad back to Belgium by at least July 12th because he flies back to the US on July 14th.

DaniGirlTravels

So starting with Brugge, it looks like 22 days total.

Kristinelaine

Since four of your cities are in Italy, I think you might be best off with the cheap flight to Rome. You don't really have a lot of time when you want to visit that many cities in 18 days.

I think you need to lay out the cities in a logical order and then check out how long the train trips are between them to see what is really doable. I always use http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/e
to check out train trips.

DaniGirlTravels

If I did fly from Paris to Rome and work my way up - I thought I would do just up the coast of Italy to keep it easy: Rome, Siena, and Cinque Terre, and then make my way up to Switzerland, Germany, and back to Belgium.

How does this sound?

Thanks for our help in advance!!

mimipam

I won't be much help but will tell you that the Cinque Terre is not an easy place to walk around. Vernazza is great but small beach and steep climbs. Maggiore (sp) is larger with a better beach but still not a large beach. Have you been there before? We stayed in Vernazza and just to get to our room was a hard climb. The best thing for your dad would probably be to ride the train between towns (takes about 5 minutes each) and see them. The easiest walk is between the last two towns. Also, I believe it is possible to take a boat trip and see the towns from the water.
Perhaps you should pick the most important places and concentrate on them so you and your dad will have a memorable experience and not be so tired and remember little. You have said you have time - how much? WIll you have to change trains frequently and rush to do so? I wish you the best of planning and hope you can just enjoy the time with your dad. The beaches at Normandy are impressive and beautiful - since now they are peaceful. Happy travels!!!

zeppole

Le Cinque Terre is an extremely difficult destination for anyone with mobility problems.

Also, Venice has many, many bridges crossing canals. Visiting Venice requires a lot of stair climbing.

Many trains in Italy are next to impossible for elderly or mobility-impaird people to board and exit because of the steep steps between the platform and the carriage. Many train stations do not have any elevators or escalators, only steps.

It sounds to me like your father would be extremely interested in World War 2 sites in Europe that have meaning for him.

I suggest that you skip Italy entirely because of the mobility issues and focus on France, Switzerland and Germany. And go more slowly.

zeppole

Also -- be aware that it is already getting very hot in Italy. You'll be cooler in more Northern destinations.

I notice you also want to go to Siena because you think it is "easy." It involves a lot of climbing.

Christina

It's hard to advise without knowing what your dad most wants to see. I haven't been to Cinque Terre, but from what I've heard of it, the main point of it is walking around. Perhaps I'm wrong on that, just wondered why that was a point you wanted to go so much.

Why Luzern? Yes, Venice to Luzern can be a very long trip, but if you leave in the early morning you can get a train that takes only about 6-7 hours (others can take forever). But you'll still need to transfer a couple times at best. That will be a lot of trouble, it seems to me, as you have to move very quickly. Luzern is a pleasant city, of course.

I don't know why you think the train per se is a problem for your father, perhaps you can elaborate on that. I just don't know why sitting for some hours is a problem. I would think the transfers would be the problem. Flights are often a big PITA as far as I'm concerned with the airports and luggage, etc.

As for where you could stop between Paris and Italy -- Lyon or Avignon would be good points to stop. Lyon is probalby more difficult in getting around than Avignon -- I mean a lot of the things to see are up on a hill or whatever. There is a funicular, and the main part of Lyon is flat. Of course you could stop in Nice, although it's not that far from Italy. But it is very beautiful there viewing the sea from the boardwalk.

YOu can get a direct train from Venice to Innsbruck, then stay there a bit, to break up the trip. From Innsbruck, you have to go through Zurich to Luzern.

annhig

hi mimi,

i remembered that there have been some links before on this board to various internet sites dealing with disabled access -
google gives us this:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourc...or+wheelchairs.

Generally, i would think that you would not want to move more often than every 3-4 days - in my experience older people generally find it easier to stay put than keep moving around.

regards, ann

DaniGirlTravels

Thank you for giving me suggestions. I have no problem skipping Venice, because like you said, it could be very difficult, but I would really like to show him Rome since he is an Italian American.

I thought Siena would be nice because it's along the way up the coast which I will be traveling.

As far as Cinque Terre, I have been there once and thought it was such a cool town, so I wanted to share it with him, but remembered is a very "walk heavy" area, and was trying to figure out the best way to do it.

As far as Lucerne, Switzerland... switzerland is part of our Eurail pass and we need to go through it to get back to our landing spot in Belgium so I thought it would be good go-between.

DaniGirlTravels

And my dad can walk... just kinda slow and sometimes he gets exhausted easily, so we sit down and take breaks. But I wanted to bring a wheel chair because there are time when you just want to go. I am 33 and in pretty good shape. If we decide not to use it I can also leave it in a hotel. When on the trains I can fold it up and just take my time with my dad getting on and off and he should be fine.

zeppole

Siena is not on the coast.

When it comes to trains in Italy, you need to understand that it doesn't matter if you are carrying your father's luggage. Your father needs to be able to pull himself up onto a train by taking a first step that is higher than his knee, and a few more steep steps after that. Likewise, getting off the train, he needs to be able to take a huge step down.

The heat in le Cinque Terre (they are five towns, not one) can be intense, and there is no way to move about the towns or access the trains without steep climbing.

Even people who can walk get exhausted in the heat of Italy

Where in Italy is your father's family from?

You might consider renting a car in Italy and doing some scenic driving instead of train travel, especially to visit where your father's family comes from.

zoecat

Siena is not on the coast (and has a lot of hills) and the Cinque Terre (it is a group of cliff hugging villages) is not a town. Instead of Siena, consider Lucca. It is close to the coast (as is Pisa, another choice) and very flat. Sarzana is another town close to the coast and on the train line between Rome and the Cinque Terre.

In the Cinque Terre, you can take the public boat or train from town to town. The views from the water are lovely. The towns are not on level ground though. They are small, so perhaps if you take it slowly it won't be a problem.

zeppole

Although you can take a public boat to view the le Cinque Terre towns from the water, you still need to get to either Levanto by train (involving changing trains en route) or to Lerici by car.

I recommend you forego le Cinque Terre entirely in the middle of the tourist season, but if you insist on seeing it, I would recommend that you use a car to get to Lerici. It has plenty of parking and a long flat promenade connecting it to the neighboring town of San Terenzo. I would book a hotel in either town, and check first by e-mail that it is on the promenade, not up in the hills.

But rather than see a cliffside town by the sea, perhaps he would rather see where his ancestors come from it Italy? It's all beautiful.

DaniGirlTravels

Thanks again!!! Really appreciate all your help, you have no idea!

As far as my dad getting up and down from trains he will be able to do that. Lets just say his body is always a bit sore and fragile, but he can walk (at a slower pace) and he can walk up steps, just slower then most.

amwosu

Check out guided tours of WWII sites in Normandy. Well worth the price.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-day-tours.cfm

Ann Marie

BigRuss

You want to go to middle-of-the-boot Italy, Switzerland, the Normandy coast, southern and Rhine Valley Germany and back to Belgium via Netherlands in 22 days with a not-so-mobile oldie.

Are you trying to kill the old man?

An old bugger with mobility problems (and "he can walk, but needs to rest" means mobility problems) can't handle the trip you have envisioned. You need to pick a few places. If he is a war vet interested in WWII history, you should skip Italy, take him to Normandy, back through Paris (because HE would like it, that you've been there is irrelevant), and perhaps catch a flight to Germany before taking ICE and Eurostar trains back to Belgium. He likely can't handle a Rome-Pisa-Paris-Normandy-Lucerne-Munich-Cologne-Brussels trip and at half his age, I wouldn't do it either.

zeppole

Sure! I live near le Cinque Terre and I'm just trying to describe to you the realities. I see almost NO people over 60 years old using the train line where I live -- the one that goes through le Cinque Terre.

If your dad can step up from the floor to the seat of a chair holding on to something, you get some idea of how steep the steps are on and off the train on the Ligurian coastal line. Another way to get an idea is to use a ladder, two steps at a time, or porch stairs, two steps at a time.

When my mother visited me in Italy, I avoided the trains because I was afraid she might break a bone in her foot descending from them.