In general, I don't think having a little too much to drink and getting mildly drunk, but not causing trouble, carries much if any stigma in the US. I think it DOES carry quite a bit of stigma and would be shameful in small southern Italian towns where many observe the traditional ways. In bigger cities and in the north, though, it may be more like the US, i.e. somewhat of a non-issue for the majority of people, with some people never over-indulging, and some others having an alcoholism problem. Possibly in yet other cultures, like in cold countries, drinking a lot, maybe too much, might possibly be the norm. There really are cultural differences, I think.

CMT- I agree, there are big cultural differences:
Get drunk in any town near Dublin (just an example!!!) on a friday night: no one notices;
Get drunk in any town near Palermo: local people will remember you got drunk;
Get drunk in any town in Saudi Arabia:
...you might be in trouble!!!

No offence for any of these cities and countries, but there are certainly different cultures in different places, and these make travelling even more interesting.
That's why the phrase : "Getting drunk is not considered the thing to do...", has a meaning to me if referred to a place or another.

Ha! Good examples.

Resurrecting this thread because there's a new thread with almost the same title on the same question.

>I wondered later if my attempts had been interpreted by the waiters as believing I HAD to use Italian because I didn't believe/assume that THEY knew English. And perhaps, this was considered demeaning on my part.<

Dog_mother, I had a similar situation in a restaurant as well, and wondered the exact same thing. I knew I had spoken correctly, but the waiter seemed to just want to get on with it and not make me bother with trying to speak Italian to him. It made me a little sad! This happened in Florence, but nowhere else.

I found Italians to be pretty patient, and friendly as well. They do have a keen understanding that tourism is a big part of their economy.

The only thing I can add/echo is that Italians seem to appreciate it if you at least try to attempt the basics: saying hello and goodbye when entering a shop, saying please and thank you, etc. I noticed that if you tried to speak these basic phrases, even if you got them wrong, they would either wink and laugh, correct you, or simply overlook your meager attempt at Italian and acknowledge you back, properly. It was usually done with warmth and kindness, I never felt anger or annoyance.

On the other hand, what I did notice was that they do not respond well to Americans who simply march up to them and start barking in English, especially without saying please or thank you - in English at least! Everytime I saw that happen (and it happened a lot) I cringed and watched as the daggers flew. It seems meaningful to Italians if you show that you can just try a few key phrases.

Last but not least, I have to say that the worst thing I witnessed was an American woman who thanked an Italian shopkeeper by saying "Muchas Gracias." Lady, do you even know what country you are in??

Oh faredolce, the "mucho gracias" - that is too funny because I have known people that have gone to Italy and before their trip have said that they would not have a problem communicating in Italy because they understood Spanish. Hello???? I know both Italian and Spanish are a Romance language but thinking that Spanish would suffice in Italy always gave me a good chuckle although I know Italians can understand Spanish better than an English speaking person who does not speak another language. But still - do some people even have a clue about the country they are going to visit?

That little scene actually was one of my favorite moments in Italy. Her "Muchas Gracias" was said rather triumphantly as she walked out (followed by an, "okay?&quot. I started shaking my head and hung it in shame for my fellow traveler. The shopkeeper looked at me and shrugged and cracked up. We exchanged the unspoken, international version of "What-ever!"

LOL faredolce, thanks for the good laugh. And I bet the Italian did the shrug of the shoulders and the rolling of the eyes. Too funny!

Hi All,
I'm new to Fodors, have been reading this thread with much interest. One question occurs to me, and may also throw some light on a situation I was in here in Sydney recently.

In the US, is it not customary to greet a shop keeper/assistant on entry and bid them goodbye when you leave?

And, are Please & Thank You not the norm?

I'm not trying to be "smart" or critical here - just curious.

My niece owns a small coffee shop in an "upmarket" eastern suburb in Sydney and I took over for a few hours last week while she ran some errands. There were 5 or 6 people at the counter, for whom our barista was making coffees, and I was plating up some cakes etc to go out to the tables. Our family has been in hospitality for 3 generations, so I was not exactly out of my depth with this number of customers.

I was, however, a bit taken aback when a rather large gent pushed his way between the people at the counter and barked "coffee" at me. Now, we serve at least 6 varieties, discounting all the exotic & weird permutations that have become trendy, especially in that part of town, so "Coffee" wasn't exactly the most enlightening order I could have received. Not to mention request.

So, I looked at him inquisitively. " I want a coffee !" (louder).

"Apparently. And if you would like to tell me how you would like it - Long Black, Espresso, Latte, Cappucino, Macchiato, Flat white or something else, I shall be happy to get it for you as soon as we have served these people."

"Cappucino" he barked and was mid-turn to lope out to a table when I quietly added his "Please", which he had obviously simply forgotten in his haste. He favoured me with a glare that reminded me of Lot's wife and continued outside.

At this stage, there were assorted eyebrows on the ceiling, muffled guffaws and Paolo was shaking so much he was in danger of spilling the "fabulous froth" all over the floor.

I made sure the cappucino had a in the froth and deliverd it with a smile and a purred, "Enjoy your coffee, Sir, Is there anything else I can get for you?". "No, just bring me the check"

Which I did, and thanked him when he came in and paid 30 mins or so later.
It wasn't reciprocated, and I wondered whether those two little words of social lubrication had been excised from his vocabulary by his frenetic lifestyle or whether he had simply had a "courtesy bypass" at birth.

Now, I wouldn't have raised this, except that there have been quite a few comments about the Italians' appreciation/expectation of salutations & per favore & grazia's on this thread.

I'm off the NYC shortly and don't want to be "out of sync" so to speak. Do I need to brush up my barking (LOL) or was this chap an abberation?

The norm. here (and I suspect/hope in most other places) is along the lines of .... "'Morning, may I have a skim milk latte, please" "Thanks" "'Bye"

I'm sure I'm risking a few "flames" but would genuinely appreciate your comments. Is this a cultural difference I need to be aware of - or was this just a bad mannered bore?

No flame at all, except to point out to Bokhara that the brusk gentleman he describes can't be taken to represent all Americans or any other group. You can see that behavior in large cities, esp. in the northeast, but it's certainly not the norm.

That said, although there are some class differences in the US -- e.g., small very expensive stores treat one differently from huge discount houses -- in general, most Americans (IME) customarily expect to walk into a store and survey the merchandise without being much noticed until and unless they need help and cannot help themselves. It's fine for sales personnel to approach and say "may I help you?" or "is there anything I can help you with?" but going much further than that can be considered pushy and intrusive in many situations -- although sometimes specific establishments pride themselves on "good service" which may translate into more aggressive sales behavior ("this would look good on you, sir&quot. Some customers appreciate that but some find it annoying.

Of course he was bad mannered. But when you visit NYC you will more likely see another customer tell the offender to get his a$$ to the back of the line rather than have the whole village of you engage in mutual eyerolling and guffawing.

You're going to need a slightly thicker skin in NY. "Morning, may I have a skim milk latte, please" might be considered excessive and not responded to in kind.

Agreeing with HKP that the bristley, curt behavior seems more prevalent in the NE and in fact NE transplants to other parts of the US, especially the south, find the level of social exchange you quote to be OTT and false. But please and thank you work and are appreciated almost everywhere.

For me the level of interaction depends on the sort of place I'm visiting. I don't announce "Greetings, all!" when I walk into the supermarket. But I'd certainly make eye contact and exchange a brief greeting with someone attending a small shop.

Bokhara and Rockhopper
Good evening ;-)You got it right. When I first left NYC to venture off into the world I felt like an idiot using niceties like "please" and "thank you" which took up so much time, had nothing to do with the situation at hand and thought it was unnecessary mollycoddling.
Happy to report I have changed my ways, gotten into the spirit of things amd slowed down enough to smell the cappucino.

Good for you, Ahotpoet I bet you get a great response,too !

You wouldn't believe how well I'm treated, especially when I'm wearing my tiara.

NEVER, BUT NEVER ask for a capuccino after lunch or dinner. Italians never do that! Pls DO NOT drink it with your meal either (neither tea!).

Ahotpoet: Love it ! My imagination's running riot ! Have you, by any chance seen the Australian film, "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert"?
Cheers, B.

Yes Bokhara I've seen it although I don't remember much about it. Didn't they travel around in a bus? Not exactly like my RV trip along the Atlantic seaboard....
Back to the subject. Another rule of Italy...... you always have to wear the latest fashionable spiked heels while touring Pompeii. I've seen it done. Who knew???? Just wished I was faster with my camera so I could show you the evidence.

Just had a thought regarding "Rules of Italy". Be like the Italians and break all the rules, LOL.

Yes, it's possible to cross a street in Rome. Just find an old woman and let her go first!

Dring coffee of tea with a meal is also not done in the UK either, unless the meal is tea of course.
I recently had lunch with an American and he asked for coffee with his meal. It's to the credit of the restaurant that they brought it without comment.