Article today, 8/9/06. Talks about how they charge/over-charge foreigners. My friends are just back from Italy and had a bad experience with the trains, as well. They were travelling from Naples to Florence and no one (not in the station, nor the conductor on the train) would confirm for them if they were on the correct train, which it turned out, they were not. Finally, a friendly passenger who spoke English assisted and explained. They felt that they were being nice, not "pushy Americans," not obnoxious. The conductor just threw his hands in the air and gave a quizzical look. They were upset and surprised. Judging by today's NY Times, I'm not surprised. Any other unwelcoming experiences?

I posted the article under the titile "La Dolce Cheater."

Since I consider being fleeced an essential part of the tourist experience, I can't say I'm shocked.

It's the norm.
I lived in a seaside town in Wales.
At least one local restaurant charged locals less than visitors in the summer.
Even the greengrocer where I bought my fruit and veg. had two prices.
Tourists are a crop and unless the overcharging is too exorbitant, you just have to live with it.

"The conductor just threw his hands in the air and gave a quizzical look. "

Really, did they expect that EVERBODY, even conductors speak English? They don´t.

Yes, I confess I had a bit of the same reaction as Elina-if the conductor didn't understand English, it gets upsetting and frustrating on BOTH sides-depending also on your friends and how pushy they were acting (they SAY they weren't being obnoxious-but that might not gave beeb the case) and sometimes, the reaction from Italians can be more provincial than professional.

Trattoria "Romanelli" on the Borgo Pio 2 blocks from the Vatican added a 10 Euro bogus "tax" to our lunch bill. They were well aware that with 5 other Trattorias on the same block, the chances of them ever seeing us again was practically nil.

I hate to admit that we weren't in a position to avoid paying it, but we told him in no uncertain terms that we'd bust him at the hotel where we were staying, half a block away. We also steered a group of Americans heading their way right in front of him. I wonder if the 10 Euro scam was worth it?

>Really, did they expect that EVERBODY, even conductors speak English? They don´t.

I wonder how NY Times would report about a French tourist asking for informations in French in New York. Or maybe in Colorado Springs.

Sad to say rip offs happen everywhere. We were having dinner in a neighbor Japanese restaurant here in San Francisco. We were talking with the owner about the high food prices in Japan. He bragged that he had a 'special menu' for visitors from Japan where the prices were more than doubled. He said that to them it was still cheap and they never complained.

Obviously, to some people, everyone is fair game. We wondered what these same Japanese tourists thought if they ate in an honest restaurant - probably that they were eating for pennies.

One very busy Sunday morning, I waited in the long line to pay for my bakery goodies at Finkelsztajn in the Marais in Paris. The long narrow shop was very crowded and when I finally reached the cashier, sitting at a little table with a money box in front of her, it was very rush rush. I hadn't had time to count the change that the woman thrust at me. I moved only inches from her so as not to hold up the line.

She noticed that I hadn't left the area and still had the change in my hand, and _immediately_ mumbled something at me and pushed the equivalant of about $20 in FF at me. I had bought quite a bit and had given her a large bill. I probably wouldn't have counted my change, a dumb thing that I sometimes do, even at home. I merely wanted to ask her something!

I was naturally surprised and wondered how many times a day she got away with that. Since she was much older than the clerks and the one taking the money, I assumed, maybe right or maybe wrong, that she was an owner or grandmere.

I said in a voice, just a little bit louder than my normal speaking voice - "GONIF" (thief) and walked out.

Truthfully, not all of the baked goods were not that great - we've had much better in the same area.

Nina

"I wonder how NY Times would report about a French tourist asking for informations in French in New York. Or maybe in Colorado Springs."

I actually meant that what kind of language requirements there are for conductors? I don´t think foreign languages are required. Perhaps requirements to become a conductor are different in US if these girls took it for granted that an Italian conductor speaks English.

Doesn't EVERYONE everywhere speak English??? If not, I don't think that I will ever travel outside of the USA - well maybe to Canada and Hawaii. They are big American tourist destinations, so _probably_ at least a few people there speak some English.

Darn those stupid foreigners - why are they deliberately trying to spoil our vacations?

No way am I going to take a chance that I will starve to death or never find a bathroom.

Nina

Regarding the conductor's, er, uh, conduct.

The question is not whether he should be able to speak English. It's whether when he cannot understand a perplexed passenger, he commits the equivalent of "get lost." You mean, there's nothing in between? No way to help a polite, perplexed passenger.

As for the theoretical French-speaking tourist: Yes, I would expect the service person to make some effort to help. I've seen in in NY, Boston and other cities.

>Rome restaurants overcharge foreigners,<

It's always amusing to see someone reinvent the wheel.

There was a news post on Yahoo this AM to the effect that a recent study discovered that drinking sugary soft drinks caused people to gain weight.

Are you confusing "reinventing the wheel" with "stating the obvious"?

I finally read the article. We had an experience at L'Orso 80 (recommended by many folks here) similar to the folks who had lots of food just brought to them.

Before we had even ordered, the waiter came over to our table and said something about spinach ravioli, mostly in Italian. My husband thought he was describing the special of the day. Soon (we were still looking at our menus), the waiter brought each of us (DH, me, and kids ages 15, 13 and 10) a full sized portion of spinach ravioli. It was very good, but of course, that was more than enough to fill up the girls. I, too, felt sort of "taken care of" until I got the check - 10 euro each for the spinach raviolis - 50 euro, for food we hadn't ordered! We would have never ordered 5 adult sized portions of an appetizer, given how little the younger two kids eat! I did feel ripped off/taken advantage of.

Also interesting about using inferior ingredients for the tourists. I've complained on this board about how disappointed I was in the quality of the ingredients at many Italian restaurants, even though they were filled with apparent locals. The use of inferior ingredients for tourists may explain it.

I have posted this before but my daughter & SIL had a very upsetting experience in Rome last June.

My SIL was born and raised in Rome..lived there until about 8 years ago. They had to go back to Rome due to his parents serious health problems.

One evening he took my daughter to a family run restaurant near his house. The original owner was there but she told him she had sold the restaurant to another family and introduced the man.

They were seated and started looking at the menu. Now my SIL speaks fluent Italian of course. BTW, this was not in the touristy section of Rome.

My SIL ordered the food included a meat dish. The "friendly" new owner strongly suggested that he bring them a different kind of meat that would be "so much better". My SIL agreed.

The meat was OK, nothing special.

When they got the bill the meat was something like 5 times the amount of the meat dish my SIL had original ordered.

In that they were in Rome for a month, and it was not a trip they had planned on their budget was quite tight. They hardly slept that night they were so upset. And of course my dear SIL blamed himself that he hadn't asked what this "suggested" meat dish would cost. He wasn't use to be ripped off at neighborhood restaurants near his house.

My husband and I had this happen one time in Florence. We ordered lunch and my husband ordered a bottle of wine. The waiter suggested a different wine "so much more enjoyable signore". Well yes it was, but it was about 10 times the price of the original wine my husband had originally ordered. He too had not thought to ask the price of the suggested wine.

So be aware, always ask about cost if a waiter makes a suggestion. It is not just the touristy restaurants that pull their tricks.

I don't recall ever being overcharged "for being a foreigner" in Europe, I recall serveral occasions in the US where they charged ridiculously high prices for foreigners. It all depends. In Europe I don't think this is a problem!

Logos, in the recent article about some (not all of course) restaurants in Rome even people from northern Italy complained that the quality of food they were served compared to the native Romans was inferior. Older produce, not as good meat etc. The Rome government has been cracking down on restaurants that have been overcharging non Romans..they get fined. So evidently now some restaurants are getting around the law by not serving comprable food. That is still a ripoff.

Logos, can you please give some specific examples of how you were overcharged as a foreigner? In restaurants? Hotels? Shops? Where were they?

My story,

A Thai restaurant in Paris, we ordered two items from the menu. Pointed to the items as well.

We were served.

It wasn't what we had ordered.

My Lady Wife said, "Don't make a scene".
(She always says that.)

I scanned the menu as we ate and said, "We have been given the most expensive plates on the menu".

Sure enough, they were.