Pat: I don't believe that most non-Americans wish they were us; but that's the impression that children grow up with and retain, when learning that (except for Native and African-Americans, of course) our millions of ancestors were Europeans/Asians/Latinos who chose to immigrate to this country.<BR><BR>Then, of course, we saved the world in WWII. "We" are heroes! Even if this happened when we were two years old.<BR><BR>Of course when you read widely or travel, you find out differently, and start to realize the complex, love/hate or at least like/dislike relationship European (and other) nations have with the U.S.<BR><BR>But early conditioning is persistant. Subconsciously, some Americans are probably disappointed or even resentful not to be accorded special recognition by virtue of their lofty status as Americans.<BR><BR>That's why criticism directed at Americans gets them angry and defensive out of proportion to its importance. And of couse the critic must be motivated by jealousy or envy.<BR><BR>

One thing I have always thought about the "ugly American" concept is that some behaviours that seem very normal here in the United States seem really out of context in other countries. For example, Americans tend to be very outgoing and not shy about talking to strangers. <BR><BR>If you were a person from another country visiting the United States, you might think "My, what friendly people to make me feel welcome." But if you are in your home country and an American comes barreling over to you at your restaurant table, sticks out his hand and says "Hi, I'm Phil, how much do I tip my waiter?", you might think, "My, what an intrusive, oafish fellow." I think a lot of first-time American travellers aren't aware of the subtle differences in cultural behaviour and just go around acting like they would at home.<BR><BR>I don't know if I've explained that well; does anyone get what I'm talking about?

Dina,<BR>I can hear your propoganda machine regarding the war loud and clear. America did not WIN the war...it was the Russians who fought back after brutal assaults by the Nazis and eventually raised their flag over Berlin. It was an allied TEAM effort. As a Canadian I tire and take offense constantly hearing that YOU won the war. Do you know how many Canadadians lost their lives also (and Brits, etc.). WE won the war. Together. I don't mean to start a flame war here but your comment is fact of the propoganda that your children are taught which forms the "we're number one" mentality. I mean your women's hockey team actually had MY country's flag on the floor (not stepped on I will say) before the gold medal game. After the fact that the US flag form the WTC incident was part of the opening ceremonies. That's the type of garbage that your country teaches your children. <BR>Sorry for the rant but get your facts straight.

Corporal, save your ire. I am not a propaganda machine, I was being facetious. Or ironic, or satirical. Maybe I did it too well? <BR>Of course the U.S. did not "win" the war, I was merely using that as an example of the firmly pro-American history many Americans are taught, glean through Hollywood films, etc. and still believe. I can see how it pisses you, a Canadian, off---so that is my point.

Corporal, front and center: ;-)<BR><BR><BR>I agree that the USA. Great Britain, Canada and other nations won WWII.<BR>You're not objecting to that proud battered American flag from the WTC being apart of the Olympic ceremonies are you? I hope not.<BR><BR>There were 3,000 souls lost (mostly American)in that cowardly act of terrorism. It did not hurt a damn thing for us to march that proud, battered flag in the ceremonies.<BR><BR>Did our women's hockey team really throw the Canadian flag to the floor? I dunno since I would rather pick lint off my curtains than watch a hockey game. If the women's team did that then I agree that was poor <BR>behavior!<BR><BR>My original point was that I was amazed that there was such an avenue to let people trash American tourists. I have to say that that web site has improved somewhat on that. In 1997 I went into that Steve's web site and found many, many postings bashing Americans for everything. Wearing the wrong cloths. Talking wrong. Walking wrong Breathing wrong. Eating and drinking wrong. <BR><BR>Maybe it is because of 9/11, but I read more positive things this time around in that particular web forum.<BR><BR>I said this last summer and I wil say it again. I will not go out and spend 1,000-1,500 dollars on cloths just because some Europeans and some silly Americans don't like my wearing white sneakers or tan docker type trousers, faded jeans, a Tennessee Vol 1998 National Championship sweat shirt that I wear for hikes or whatever the cloths.<BR><BR>Especially when I see Europeans wearng some of the same type of clothing.<BR>

Doesn't anybody get it? Dina is trying to explain (apparently unsuccessfully to some) why it is sometimes easy to bash Americans--basically because of their upbringing and being bombarded with the kinds of things Dina cited.<BR><BR>Give it up Dina--either people can't read, or for whatever reason misinterpret the points of your posts.<BR><BR>And Orangesun I totally fail to understand why you are so disturbed by posts on another forum on the net. Agree or disagree, but agonize over it. I guess I just don't get that!<BR><BR>j

Joanne, seeing any bad behavior bothers me. I'm not saying that bad behavior in a public situation should go unnoticed or anything. Yes, I know that some Americans while traveling have exhibited poor behavior. I saw some American man once yelling at some little timid bespectacled desk clerk once. The man said that I'm so and so and I work for this place and you'll will not do this and you will not do that.<BR><BR>I felt like walking over to this blowhard and telling him to shut up.<BR><BR>I know that Americans act poorly in some situations. I also know that is totally unfair for some to single just us Americans out as a whole for poor behavior, especially when I've seen other tourists from other Nations also exhibit poor behavior.<BR><BR>It was just that folder that was set up to do for that porpoise that bothers me.

Orangesun: I have no idea how or why the folder on Ugly Americans was started. Perhaps many submissions went in that direction so a folder was started. <BR><BR>Similarly threads on many subjects are started on this forum. If the title sounds interesting I investigate. If I have suggestions or answers to offer, I give them. If the thread offends me I exit and go elsewhere, or perhaps respond if it offends me sufficiently to make me let off some steam. But in no case am I sufficiently offended to start a new thread about it.<BR><BR>I love my country and was patriotic even before 9/11, but truth is truth and if boorish behavior is observed and then included in the Steve's forum so be it. I frankly can't see the need to start a folder for Ugly Frenchmen, Ugly Germans, Ugly Brits, etc., even though obviously such behavior exists, simply because you feel Americans should not be singled out.<BR><BR>I completely fail to understand your strong feelings about this, but to each his own.<BR><BR>j

What I still don't get is why someone else's "bad behaviour" should bother anyone so much. I'm not talking about an unruly child who disrupts a quiet dinner for everyone in a restaurant. I'm talking about the typical "Ugly American" accusations. When I come back from travelling, I am motivated to write about the sights I saw, the food I ate, the friends I made. I could care less about how strangers acted or what they wore. Again, I contend that it's a fear of being lumped together with those horrendous individuals, to be thought of as "better than them."

123: If you "could care less" about others' behaviour, it means you do care <BR>somewhat. I know that you mean you *couldn't* care less. <BR><BR>But I *could* care less, meaning it does make me a bit uncomfortable if I see that my fellow American leaves a bad impression, which then may predjudice foreigners towards us all. (And I'm not speaking of sneakers.) <BR><BR>As I said before, other Americans are your "family" in a global sense, so yes, we may be lumped together...<BR>But since I have no control over others' behavior, I can only forget it and try to make a nicer impression myself.<BR><BR>And before I get flamed, no, I don't go around kissing Europeans' feet to ingratiate myself. I think I can enjoy myself, suit myself and leave a good impression as well, with my behavior. <BR><BR>As for appearance, someone posted the remark "...it's not as if the trip were a date or a job interview." Maybe my second third, fourth trips (ha!) will find me more jaded, but for this first one, I DID feel like I had a "date" with Europe.

Dina, so did Europe try to kiss you on your first date? :~) <BR><BR>Seriously, I understand that metaphor and how that may have worked for you when it came to how you wanted to appear, visually. And I feel the somewhat the same way (in fact, I care more about how I look now, that I did on my first couple trips to Europe.) But, in fairness to others, I don't think everyone feels that need to make that kind of visual impression. <BR><BR>Now, on the other hand, I do think it's a good idea for everyone to try to make a good impression with their *behavior*. And, to that end, I think that's where that Steves' "Ugly American" forum may be of some service, pointing out gauche :~) behaviors of others that one may want to try to avoid. <BR><BR>orangesun, if that was the only forum Steves' provides, I might share your amazement. But it's just one of countless forums on his site and, as such, I guess I put its presence into perspective. People write about all kinds of things on his site and writing about Americans behaving badly is just a very small part relative to all of the forums & postings there. <BR><BR>Philip, I agree with your comment that "some people just feel that they have a sense of entitlement." Well said. <BR><BR>Julie, I also agree with you about some very normal behaviors here in the United States seeming out of context in other countries. In fact, I have a book on cultural differences between the U.S. and France and the author points out numerous examples of that, one of them being the kind of thing you mentioned, American gregariousness vs. French reserve. <BR><BR><BR>

Capo-Europe kissed me on our first date-on both cheeks **

Dina, how incredibly rude of you to correct my grammar. This is a travel board. "I could care less" is a common expression, even if it is not technically correct, and I'll bet that at least 99.9% of the readers knew what I meant.

123, I was correcting your syntax, not your grammar, but only to make my own point. <BR>Whoops, yet another correction, doubly rude. I don't know what made me do thatt, it was just too easy. I humbly beg forgiveness. <BR>

Blah. Blah. Blah.

Orangesun:<BR>You're not objecting to that proud battered American flag from the WTC being apart of the Olympic ceremonies are you? I hope not."<BR><BR>What I am objecting to is YOUR people daring to use MY flag in a way that would make the American people scream out for treason especially after Sept. 11. And, NO,I am not objecting in any way to the WTC flag being presented at the opening ceremonies. I am only noting the hypocrisy of wanting the world to respect that tattered flag and then going on and treating an allies' flag with disrespect. Even if it was only hockey or a sport you don't care for. Your "I hope not" comment is pretty threatening and I suggest you think about it before posting another comment like that again. I rarely reply to these posts (this will be my last) but I initially responded to Dina's comment anyway. Dina, I apologize, I did not see your comment as irony at the time so please see my feelings for how the Canadian flag was treated, however trivial it was to Orangesun who just doesn't get it. <BR>Signing off <BR>(and I vow to try not to get caught up in such a runaway post again)<BR><BR><BR>

I feel it's far wiser to discuss your concerns with Rick Steves.

So says the Mirror...<BR><BR>BRITS are the rudest, worst behaved and least adventurous holidaymakers in the world - and Germans the best.<BR><BR>Tourist offices placed us bottom of 24 countries, a survey said yesterday.<BR><BR>In contrast those sunbed bandits from Germany ranked highest for behaviour and their attempts to speak the local language. Dermot Halpin, boss of online travel service Expedia which conducted the survey, said: &quot;Much as it pains me to say it, the Germans deserve the best sunbeds.<BR><BR>&quot;British holidaymakers are some of the most widely travelled in the world. But that doesn't mean we're good at it.&quot; Expedia questioned tourist offices in 17 popular destinations worldwide. Britons were worst for rudeness, followed by Russians and Canadians.<BR><BR>They were also worst for their behaviour, learning the language and enthusiasm to try local delicacies.<BR><BR>Next on the bottom of the list were the Israelis, Irish and Indians. At the top, the Germans were followed by Americans, Japanese, Italians and French.<BR><BR>Americans were the most polite and most generous tippers and Italians the most adventurous eaters.<BR><BR>The Foreign Office said: &quot;A lot of our tourists are no worse than other nationals. Look how well behaved they were at the World Cup in Japan.&quot;<BR>

Please tell us that Steves wasn't secretly staying in a five star hotel in Zurich and that his clothes didn't stink!

Can't we give this one a rest? The OP is over a year old. Got problems with Rick Steves, post on his travel site.