NYCFoodSnob

I've always had a section of travel guides in my home library. Some are in a foreign language. I purchased several guides based solely on a few paragraphs of information or on a few great photographs. People buy things or express interest for diverse reasons. And people who love travel research, there are probably millions, well, they just are interested in knowing stuff from a variety of perspectives.

I've never owned anything produced by Rick Steves, but I once read a personal article he wrote for a famous magazine about a specific town in Italy that I loved. I thought the writing in the article was superb.

During recent research, I found detailed Italy information on his blog about a specific subject that I couldn't find anywhere else.

I have special admiration for people who are lucky to work at a job they love. It's a gift, and Rick Steves has it. To love a job and be extremely successful at it is beyond a gift. Most people don't have that.

The lonely and unhappy cynics on this board talk too much, and it's probably because they're too lazy to seek something better to do. So their voices tend to drone and drown out others.

Museum and art gallery attendance around the world is at an all-time high.

It would be foolish to judge all travelers by the style of trip report writers who come here to brag about their 5-star hotel stays, their craving for liquor, their preoccupation with the doings and conversations of other travelers, and their desire to have a "trip of a lifetime" while spending a ton of money and doing nothing particularly noteworthy.

Throughout history, travelers have always included the vapid, self-absorbed, and the narcissistic. The internet gives these folks room to play. You simply have to swim past them and try not to rub elbows.

AlessandraZoe

I don't know that I agree, fuzzbucket.

I think that there are far more people traveling today, and one of the things we are blaming for a style of travel we don't like, the internet, has also made it possible for all of us to increase our travel possibilities, especially in the slower, more in-depth manner we desire.

I would agree that I have a personal bias AGAINST the "sound bite" traveler and perhaps it would be best if some people never left home. Every time I saw a cruise ship towering over buildings in Venice and Istanbul, I sense the end of civilization as we know it. I go nuts watching tourists take iphone pics of themselves with every single monument.

But the movie "If It's Tuesday, It Still Must Be Belgium," which premiered in 1969, tells you that type of traveler ALWAYS existed.

Looking at the situation more positively, 15 years ago, "new" technology of VCRs allowed me to show Sister Wendy tapes to my kids before we hit Florence, allowing them to decide what they wanted to see.

This past summer online bookings allowed me to gain entry to "The Last Supper" and the Scrovegni Chapel this past summer--and book the trains needed to see them. I sent my family links to what we were going to see. The ease of those transactions and preparation meant we got to enjoy more spontaneous experiences along the way.

I can now come upon a work of art in a museum that fascinates me and on the spot look it up on my smartphone. I like that access.

I also don't agree that art, language and history are not emphasized anymore.

My own school arts education program was very, very limited. With 350 kids per high school in my 1971 graduating class, we only had a total of 6 AP offerings, evenly divided between Math/Science and History/English.

I contrast my arts education experiences with the experiences my kids received in their public schools. In addition to regular art and music (plus free instrumental lessons starting in 4th grade), my kids' public elementary school had visits from "The Art Visitor"--a program started by the PTO, plus additional visits from "The Music Box", another PTO program.

The art appreciation classes in their public high school, all electives, are booked to the gills. Four out of the five languages taught in the school offer AP levels (two offer TWO AP levels). There are 3 (and perhaps more now) types of AP History. They got to experience four different choirs--and if they could have managed to have fit in orchestra with their swim team commitments, they could have taken part in that.

And there are no more than 400 students in the school per graduating class. Yes, I am in awe.

Of course, the next time a cruise ship blocks my sunlight again, I'll deny I ever looked on the bright side.

fuzzbucket

AZ - if you lived in Paris and saw what I do every day, you would realize just how lucky and privileged you are. Congratulations, but you are not - unfortunately - the average visitor to Paris.

NYFS - have you actually met any of the "lonely and unhappy cynics" you referred to? I thought not.
Judge not, etc...

kja

fuzzbucket wrote: "kja - it's not your imagination, tourists have changed." -- perhaps so! But my point was specifically about Fodorites, not about tourists in general. As for tourists in general, I have no information that would provide the basis for a meaningful observation.

justineparis wrote, "That does not mean RS books/videos are useless or bad.. they are not.. they are perfect for a certain type of traveller , and sales have been the proof of that pudding whether you agree or not." Maybe -- but you only need to convince a huge number of people to buy just one of your books to be a great success in terms of sales. And if people continue to buy his books just because they have no idea that other, potentially more useful, guidebooks are out there, well then you can end up with a HUGE marketing success without regard to quality. I'm not saying his books are useless or bad (although I have previously noted that I, personally, find them woefully inadequate) -- I'm just pointing out that commercial success is not an indication of value. If it were, we'd all be saying that MacDonald's serves the best food in the world! ;-)

pariswat

I really like your analysis kja.

(Even for a moron who won't buy guides in english)

I also think that tourists change.
Before (ow God, sounds like 'in my time'), people who traveled were the rich (and often) educated ones who did visit museums and who would spend time gaping at wonders.

Fortunately travel is now open to everybody and we are in the mass tourism.

Masses go to McDo to eat, masses wil ldo McDo type of traveling, or am I wrong ?

kja

@ pariswat -- thanks! I hope you are enjoying (or have enjoyed) your time in China and that you are sampling (or have sampled) some of its extraordinary local, yet to be mass-marketed, foods.

justineparis

kja you find them inadequate because you are not "that" type of traveller.

They are meant for travellers whos previous travel experience may have been travelling by car to the next State .. or perhaps taking a cruise to Mexico.. in other words,those completely inexperienced with Europeon travel. Those who are willing to try travel overseas ( remember.. there are many North Americans who have no desire to leave the familiar.. they see no value at all in exploring the rest of the world) but may be a bit nervous , they think it may be complicated or stressful.. and RS spends a lot of time going through very basic things.. what to wear, what to pack, what to see. He makes it clear then can do it and have fun .. he hand holds them through basic things.. how to use the metro, how to take a train, how to get the most out of 3 days in Paris..etc..

Definitely not an indepth guide to anywhere though.

RS books /videos get a lot of folks excited , they make travel to Europe look like something even mom and pop from Iowa can do..

I do not think RS books are suitable for many other types of travellers though, and that is absolutely fine.

There is no wrong way to travel really.. as long as a person takes their manners then any type of travel and traveller can have a good time..

brubenow

Alessandra and Justine- well said.


I've never understood the need of some posters here to snub the Average Joe North American tourist who wants a picture of himself in front of Big Ben, or the Eiffel Tower, or the Vatican! Many of these tourists, as Justine said, only have the opportunity to drive to another state when on vacation. Europeans are fortunate enough to be able to drive a few hours, or hop on a train, and arrive in a foreign country, speak a different language, and embrace a different culture. North Americans don't have that luxury. It takes a considerable amount of money to fly across the Atlantic, not to mention time away from work or family. Not to mention the fear of the unknown in a foreign land. Most people only have a few weeks to spend in Europe. It's costly to come back. And time consuming. When they're in Europe, they want to see the most they can in the short period of time they have. So of course, they're not going to spend days in some obscure part of town, or 12 hours in a remote art gallery, especially if it's their first trip to Europe. Rick Steves' books help these kind of tourists tackle the unknown. He encourages them to vacation in Spain instead of Florida this year. So please stop the tone of condescension toward the guy from Iowa taking a selfie at the Eiffel Tower. He's a long way from home. Give him a break and let him enjoy his moment.

kja

justineparis wrote, "kja you find them inadequate because you are not 'that" type of traveller'

-- I'm not sure what that statement means, exactly, and honestly, I don't want to know! But I do want to say that I was terrified to take my first trip abroad, and managed to do so quite nicely due to the range of options offered by pre-RS., pre-internet options. And I have been pleased to manage any number of other trips without RS's advice

And quite honestly, once i consulted his advice, I've been VERY glad that I have chosen other guidebooks to plan MY trips! Seriously! I find SO much more useful information in just about ANY guidebook that I have EVER consulted than a RS option that I just can not, in good faith, do anything other than direct travelers elsewhere. JMO.

The hows and detailed mechanics have been, and continue to be, very well covered by MULTIPLE sources long before, and since, RS jumped into the market. And other options are more comprehensive and, IME, presented with greater acknowledgement that, gee, some of us might actually have an interest in art, or architecture, or whatever! Again, JMO.

Bottom line, once again, to each his/her own!

justineparis

kja it is a compliment in a way.. but take it as you wish.. you are well travelled.. I have read your trip reports.. you are confident and do solo trips to Asia( Asia for solo is not something a lot of travel virgins do) for a month at a time.. do you really think you are same type of traveller as mom and pop from the suburbs who wanna "see Gay Paree"... .. really,, do you ?

You love art, history and architecture.. and are willing to do much research on things to see and do at your chosen destination.

RS travellers will may post something like "I am going to Rome in two months.. what are the top sights ?"

Are you that traveller. no.. I don't think so.

I can totally understand why you would not find a RS book or video stimulating or thorough enough for you .. but surely you can see that its simple enough for some..

justineparis

Kja.. I have no idea what you look like.. but you know that 'spirit animal".. lol because you certainly travel at an amazing pace ( and yes. I realize you warn folks its what works for you , but may not for them)I am just in awe of your stamina!

justineparis

sorry something got deleted and noticed just at post

... but you know that "Energizer Bunny" in the battery commercial it must be your "spirit animal" ...

kja

Thanks, justineparis, for the “in a way” compliment, and wow – I didn’t expect that my post would prompt such research! But you are absolutely correct that I have been priviledged to take solo trips, of about a month in duration, to various parts of Europe and Asia and elsewhere. How fortunate can a person be!

So let me start by repeating my bottom line: I think it is absoluely wonderful that people do, and can, travel for VERY different reasons, at very different paces, and for very different purposes.

My point on this thread was that people can learn to enjoy travel without RS – and might even settle into a way of travel that suits them best without consulting his resources.

You point to my trips to Asia, and they could be informative: I found ways to visit Japan and northern China (not to mention South Korea) that were extraordinarily rewarding, and that most certaiinly did not reflect ANY input from RS. I’m so glad I felt no tie to RS guidebooks, as there is SO much other information to help those with relevant interests!

I would not have held myself up as an example, but I won’t deny that I have been fortunate enough to visit lots of places without the “benefit” (read, from my perspective, “without the detriment”) of RS’s input – I’ve been extarordinarily fortunate to travel within the US, to take a few trips into Canada and once into Mexico, to take several long trips to Asia, and lots (not enough) trips to Europe. I use LOTS of guidebooks – about a half dozen – for each trip, and I don’t expect than any one guidebook would or should meet any particular traveler’s need – in fact, I’ve often posted about the differences between guidebooks. The one consistent theme that I’ve discerned is that the RS guidebooks are, of those I consult, the least informative, least comprehensive, and most condescending. JMO.

So, justineparis asks: “do you really think you are same type of traveller as mom and pop from the suburbs s who wanna "see Gay Paree"... .. really,, do you ?"

Of course not! But they might benefit from thinking about what they might do if they consult a guidebook that actually describes their options!

I don’t understand the relevance of the PACE at which I choose to travel to this discussion. Yes, I travel hard, and have never denied it – in fact, I think it is critical for me to say so if I am to help others decide how to plan their time.

Again, I celebrate the ways in which different people find to enjoy their travels -- I just wish for them access to information that suits their aspirations, even if not the information most readily available.

fuzzbucket

Here's something that puzzles me - or maybe "dismays" would be a better choice of word:

With all the truly enormous amount of resources available to people planning a trip - whether around the block, to the next state, around the globe - why do so many insist on going on TripAdvisor and asking for "the best things to see and do" or "how to get from Point A to Point B"?

Believe me - Fodorites, SlowTravellers - we are in a very small minority.

sparkchaser

<i>why do so many insist on going on TripAdvisor and asking for "the best things to see and do" or "how to get from Point A to Point B"?</i>

Laziness. It is easier to ask and wait for a response than to go look for the information yourself.

If every travel forum had a "Ten Best Things to See and Do in <city>" at the top of ever applicable sub-forum, you'd still get people posting the questions "I am going to London, what are the must sees?"

sparkchaser

I suppose people are also looking for feedback from people that have actually gone there, perhaps not realizing that travel guides and wikitravel were just not conjured out of thin air.

AlessandraZoe

Let's all remember that the type of traveler one is on one trip may not be the type of traveler one becomes, too.

My very first trip to Paris was a last-minute weekend trip with my husband, who had to be there on business. There were no smartphones, and I certainly had not found this forum yet (Trip Adviser wasn't even a thought then).

I indeed carried a Top Ten book!

Coquelicot

Our first trip to Europe (and North Africa) was a year long and our only guidebook was "Europe on $5 a day."

Yes, it was that far back.

If I recall correctly, the book wasn't good for much more than the basics of the European capital cities. That fairly blank slate let us make our own discoveries and we had a wonderful time.

At this point we don’t really need the guides, but I still try to skim a recent edition of most of the major guidebooks before our trip. I usually pick up some new bit of information. In my opinion, the Rick Steves guide is on a par with the others.

Since the OP was asking about travel videos, I would suggest not chugging down any one travel series. I loved watching Rick Steves one show a week, but a whole evening of Rick Steves would be an overdose. If you think Rick is bad, wait till you watch two Burt Wolfs in a row.

PatrickLondon

Anyway, back to video suggestions. I'm not sure what would be a more enticing presentational style for the OP - they might find the BBC Coast series and Paul Murton's series on Grand Tours of the Scottish Islands a bit staid, but I'd suggest looking them up on Youtube (plenty of examples to choose from).

immimi

We enjoy watching Coast on our local ed. channel and I confess I have a wee thing for Neil Oliver but as a guide for travel it makes the RS series seem positively frenetic! Plus the segments are a tad esoteric for the casual first time North American traveller.

Rudy Maxa was so obvious in touting the high end resorts/hotels that paid his way; his mode of travel seemed far removed from the RS 'philosophy'. I really like Rick Stein's series when I can find it on our schedule.

RS seems a little less gooberish in his newer series and he does a good job of allaying the fears of novice travellers to Europe - so that's a public service, no?