kja

Progress made!
• Approved plan for leave from work: check
• Airline reservations: check
• Swiss Pass (1 month, 2nd class): check
• Cancel-for-any-reason trip insurance: check
• Fully cancellable reservations for lodging that I think will be at least satisfactory (if not better) in each of my destinations: check

I’ll be fine-tuning my plans over the next several months and will welcome further thoughts.

I’m very excited about this trip and thank you all for your help!

PalenQ

• Swiss Pass (1 month, 2nd class): check>

You can buy Swiss Passes at any Swiss train station but I have been comparing pass prices for those bought here and those bought there for years before buying my passes and more often than not the exact same pass is cheaper if bought in the U S than in Switzerland - why I do not know but that is a fact IMO - last week when I checked passes were significantly cheaper here than there - but things can change and that is not always true so check prices at sites like www.swisstravelsystem.com in CH francs - Swiss francs and figure in any foreign exchange fees your c card or ATM card may imposes for foreign purchases - often 3% vs prices for passes bought at home - check sources like http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html or www.rickstegves.com or www.raileurope.com - check various ones as though pass prices are always the same - required to be sold from any agent at the same price some can put on mailing or handling fees - many do not so check for the cheapest deal.
If buying there is about the same as here then you may just want to wait until landing - as once a pass is bought here if something comes up and you have to change your plans you will have some kind of cancellation fee - but if savings are significant as they were when I checked last year you could save a chunk of money by buying from a U S agent.

kja

> PalenQ –

"check" = done! I have already purchased my Swiss Pass!

And BTW, before I did so, I consulted another of your posts that provides this very information, a post that I had flagged in advance – thanks! (And, for about $17, I bought insurance that allows me to cancel if necessary and also covers me if my pass is lost or stolen.)

PalenQ

Hi kja - OK! One last thing - do not forget to validate the pass at the train station ticket window in Geneva but if you are not going to use the pass that day only to go into Geneva you may not want to start the pass until you are doing something significantly - anyway you must take it up to a train station ticket window and show your passport and then they stamp it for the overall validity period.

But if you arrive in Geneva early and feel perky you could take one of the lake boats covered by the pass and float around to recuperate a bit from jet lag - boats go frequently and you can just go up to a nearby port and back - just flash the pass when boarding.

Since it also covers museums you may want to the first day check out some museum!

Cheers and Bon Voyage!

kja

Thanks for the reminder, PalenQ! I plan to have my pass validated at the airport in Geneva, so I can begin using it right away. There’s no reason to delay, as my pass covers my full time in Switzerland.

LucyLemonade

Well, I'm a little late to the party.
But I just have two quick things to add.

1. I don't think you are crazy moving from Geneva to Lausanne to Vevey/Montreux. I can see the merits of it. But as was said above, the boat takes a long long long long time! It takes 2 hours or so from Lausanne to Montreux where the train takes 20 minutes. Even the boat from Vevey to Montreux/Chateux Chillon take an hour and the train takes something like 8mins. It's nice... But since you have a short time in these places, take the train, unless you find yourself with really nothing to do.... somehow I can't see.

In Lausanne, the hermitage and the musee d'art brut are both worth a visit. The mudac also depending on what the exhibit is.

2. Is there a particular reason you are staying 2 nights in Basel? Basel has to be the ugliest city in all of Switzerland (IMO). Personally, I'd skip it before I skipped a couple of other places you listed. Again, personally, I'd add a couple more days in other places leaving out Basel altogether unless there is something particular you want to see there?

kja

> LucyLemonade

Thanks for chiming in! My trip isn’t for months yet, so you aren’t too late by any means.

1. I’ve actually spent my free time over the last few days trying to figure out how to fit in the boat ride between Lausanne to Montreux. It sounds SO lovely, and I do want to spend some time on a few of Switzerland’s stunning lakes over the course of my trip. But yes, it is a chunk of time, particularly in comparison to the train, and from what I can tell, there are only a few crossings each day during the time I'll be there.

One option I’m considering – and I know it’s going to sound REALLY crazy – is to take the train from Lausanne to Montreux, and then the next day, after visiting the Chateau de Chillon (walking along the Chemin Fleuri and spending a few hours at the castle) and after going to Rochers-de-Naye and back (with an hour at the top), I might take the boat to Lausanne and the train back again. As I said - crazy! But it seems to be the only way to make the timing work out, at least given my other priorities and the preliminary schedule I’ve seen for the boats. I should be able to return to Montreux in time for a nice dinner and at least I wouldn’t have to worry about the transportation costs, since I already have my Swiss Pass…. And honestly, nothing else in Montreux is grabbing my interest nearly as much, assuming that I hike the Lavaux wine terraces as planned late in the afternoon/early evening of the day I reach Lausanne from Geneva. (If that doesn't happen, then I might prefer to hike a bit of the wine terraces near Montreux instead.) At the very least, I’ll keep this crazy boat idea in mind as an option and play it by ear once there.

I was really looking forward to visiting the Fondation de l’Hermitage, but unfortunately, it looks like it will be closed while I’m there. (With my original plan, I would have been in Lausanne while it displays an exhibit that sounds interesting to me, but then I decided to start my trip later, and so am missing it.) The MUDAC is definitely on my list, as I have an interest in the decorative arts. I’ve been a bit more ambivalent about the Musee d’Art Brut, so I’m glad to take note of your recommendation.

2. As for Basel, I doubt that I'll have 2 full days there: I’ll reach it in time for a late dinner one evening and will leave once I finish seeing my high priority sites sometime on the day after my 2nd night there, probably by mid-day or mid-afternoon at the latest. I’m looking forward to Basel for its museums (the Kunstmusuem, the Fondation Beyeler, Historisches Musuem, Museum der Kulturen, Puppenhausmuseum....), along with the Munster, etc. If anything, I think I may not be planning enough time in Basel!

I’m not sure I’ll adjust my current plans (at least until events on the ground make me decide to do so), but nothing is “writ in stone” except my arrival and departure, so feel free to throw ideas my way!

Thanks again!

LucyLemonade

Yes. Basel has some nice museums. So as long as you stay inside, it's fine. I bet you'll come back and tell me it was your favorite town!

Montreux is pretty, but I don't find too much to do their either. There is a nice middle eastern restaurant that is "famous", Palais Oriental. However, I hear it's quite expensive. And personally, I think the vineyards from Vevey to Lausanne are the more beautiful.

If the weather is good, then I would do Vevey to Lausanne. It's an hour (+/-) not the full 2 hours if you do Montreux - Lausanne.

That's too bad about the Hermitage. The Art Brut.... Well, I like it however, it is a bit creepy and weird at times. If that's not your thing, you won't miss much skipping it.

I'm a museu in small doses kind of girl. Shall I throw a spanner in your plans and tell you about the museum in Martigny that is quite famous? You probably know it already. The Fondation Pierre Gianadda. I'm embarrassed to say, I've never been.

PalenQ

Basel has to be the ugliest city in all of Switzerland (IMO).>

I found Basel quite nice - a nice old town by the Rhine - if that is the ugliest town in Switzerland then Switzerland don't have no ugly towns! That said I would spend my time elsewhere if I were a first-time visitor to Switzerland with limited time.

artsbabe

If you like art, Basel is a great place to go. Think about adding Museum Tinguely to your list. Fondation Beyeler is really great -- glad it is on your list. Oh, and Musee de l'Art Brut in Lausanne is fascinating. The only other museum in the world dedicated to "outsider art" is in Baltimore, MD (American Visionary Art Museum).

LucyLemonade

<I found Basel quite nice - a nice old town by the Rhine - if that is the ugliest town in Switzerland then Switzerland don't have no ugly towns! That said I would spend my time elsewhere if I were a first-time visitor to Switzerland with limited time.>

Sure. We can pretend that Basel consists of solely and only the old quaint part of town, especially since the OP won't have much time to go further than that. Sadly my experience with Basel is the where tourists do not tread, the place where most people spend their days working, The Ugly Zone! It's tainted my view of the whole city.

Again, I personally am not a fan of Basel. But since the OP particularly likes museums, Basel has a couple of quite good ones.

Ingo

Quite interesting that you tell a tourist Basel is ugly because the areas where tourists don't go are that. At the same time you concede that Basel has a quaint old town. HUH?

I am a big fan of Basel, not only because of the museums. The old town is really large and has picturesque corners lined up one after another. The medieval structure and architecture are well preserved. The churches are also worth seeing. It also has very nice areas outside the old town - St. Alban Vorstadt, parts of Kleinbasel e.g.

LucyLemonade

My objection to Basel was that the OP allocated _2 days_ to it. *IMO* the old town is not enough to spend 2 full days there, when there are *IMO* other more interesting places in Switzerland where the OP could spend those days instead. Thus my comment, which in no way constitutes a binding agreement on the part of the OP. Thankfully!

In return the OP expressed an interest in museums and I agreed that Basel does indeed have some excellent museums and that the OP will enjoy visiting these museums and may return with Basel as a favorite destination.

_As a whole_, I *personally* don't care for it. *IMO* it is an ugly step sister. I also conceded that *my opinion* of Basel _as a whole_ is probably tainted by the ugly areas where I spent too much time, much to my chagrin. Perhaps I'll change my mind one day about Basel. I'll certainly keep an open mind the next time I'm forced to go there.

mrtaz49

Hi kja,

Rereading your China thread that was so helpful to us last year, I clicked on your "name" and ended up here. I hope I can return the favor in a small way, having lived in Switz (too many years ago).

Lauterbrunnen is great. We were just back there last summer. I highly recommend the Hotel Staubach - get a room with a balcony facing down the valley. Do the hikes above the valley -- one day for each side. If you need any more details, let me know.

If you have time while on Lago Maggiore, take a bus through Valle Verzaska. Stop at the Roman bridge, hike the hills, and enjoy some hearty risotto.

Switzerland is spectacular! Enjoy!

kja

Once again, I stand in awe of Fodorites, who so generously take the time to share their perspectives! I continue to learn and benefit from all of you -- thank you so much and please keep all these great ideas coming.


➢ LucyLemonade

Thanks for the suggestion to take the boat to Lausanne from Vevey instead of from Montreux – sounds like a time-saving back-up option!

And thanks, too, for your restaurant recommendation. I am fortunate to live in a city with a lot of options for cuisines from around the world, so while I’m in Switzerland, I’ll generally be seeking dinners that feature regional specialities and/or local products. For my time around Lake Geneva (or in this case, I should perhaps say “Lac Leman”), I think I would like to have a few affordable meals (at least by Swiss standards, and yes, I know that won’t be cheap!) that feature French/Swiss/continental dishes, whether traditional or contemporary. I’m willing to consider a splurge meal in this region, if there’s a place that warrants it. (When I say splurge, I am definitely NOT talking Michelin-starred prices.) Recommendations are welcome!

I had not known of the Fondation Pierre Gianadda - it sounds interesting and the Chagall Court sounds quite special. It is now on my wishlist for my next trip to Switzerland.

I’m glad that you agree that Basel’s Old Town is quaint. It’s unfortunate that your overall experience of Basel was not entirely on the positive side. I hope your present and future positions allow you to live in places that are more to your liking – it can make such a difference!


➢ PalenQ and
➢ Ingo
Thanks for continuing to monitor this thread and for affirming that you found Basel enjoyable!


➢ artsbabe
Thanks for your comments! I am definitely looking forward to my visit to the Fondation Beyeler.

While I respect his efforts, I must admit that I’m not all that fond of Tinguely’s creations, and so (I’m sorry!) I had been thinking of skipping the Musee Tinguely. I believe that one of his fountains adorns the space in front of the Kunsthalle? I thought I’d enjoy spending a few minutes there for a “low dose” homage. Does that make sense?


➢ mrtaz49
Thanks so much, mrtaz, for jumping in and providing such helpful information!

It still surprises me that anyone would have found my ridiculously long trip report on China interesting or informative enough to read. That you started re-reading it is an incredible compliment – thanks so much! Although you say you found my report helpful, from what I can tell, what you learned from me was out-of-date information about the gates to the Forbidden City and second-hand advice on a “plan of attack” for visiting it – so you are definitely being too kind to me! Nonetheless, I am very pleased that you found value in my report and sincerely hope that you enjoyed your time in China. (Are you, perhaps, considering another trip there?)

I am delighted that you recommended the Hotel Staubach – that’s the hotel I’ve reserved! It sounds like it should meet my needs very well. I haven’t finished fleshing out my plans for the Bernese Oberland yet (and even if I had, I would be open to adjusting those plans), so please feel free to make additional recommendations.

And I can’t thank you enough for directing my attention to the Valle Verzaska! I haven’t fully researched the Ticino yet either, but my initial impressions had been that this valley would be a bit too out-of-the-way, so I had basically crossed it off. Since reading your message earlier today, I’ve done some additional preliminary research, and I am TRULY thrilled to think that I might be able to make this valley a part of my trip! From what I’ve learned today, it seems that I can get into the valley easily by bus from Ascona/Locarno, and if I time things carefully, I should be able to get off somewhere (maybe Corippo?) and take a reasonably easy walk for an hour or two to Laventezzo, and then catch a bus back to Locarno.

So – to my surprise – visiting this valley might now be my primary objective for my time in Ascona/Locarno! Or I could try to visit it instead of going to Bellinzona, although from what little I know at this point, I think I would enjoy visiting those three castles. Any thoughts about how to divide my time among Ascona/Locarno, the Valle Verzaska, and Bellinzona will be welcome. Or maybe I need to adjust my plans for Lugano?

Thanks so much for your comments and especially for making sure I knew of this enticing area!

LucyLemonade

Sorry. I didn't mean for the conversation to veer off to my dislike of Basel. Travel is very personal and your impressions of a place not solely about the place itself, but also who you're with and why you're going, etc. And as such I know *you* will really enjoy your trip there.

Now, I'm stuck with the idea that you are going to see 100 museums. Did you add the Paul Klee in Bern? And have you looked into the Swiss Museum pass?

Going back through your days in Fribourg/Neuchatel/Gruyeres. This is where I personally think you don't have enough time and this was where I'd have taken a day from Basel to tack on here or I'd skip Neuchatel.

Do you have a revised, revised itinerary? Oh, & what sort of budget are you taking about for food? I could dig out some recommendations.

PalenQ

Now, I'm stuck with the idea that you are going to see 100 museums. Did you add the Paul Klee in Bern? And have you looked into the Swiss Museum pass?>

No need for a Swiss Museum Pass if you have a Swiss Pass as a Swiss Pass not only covers trains, boats, buses and practically everything that moves in Switzerland save cows but also gives free entry to 400+ Swiss museums - exactly the same as the Swiss Museum Pass does so if you have a Swiss Pass you automatically have a Swiss Museum Pass too.

mrtaz49

Don't be so modest re your China report. It was wonderfully inspiring and useful. I actually printed it, highlighted the relevant sections (general info/planning, Xi'an, Beijing), and brought it with us. My comment at the time about the North gate to the Forbidden City being closed was not a complaint, rather, an update and caution to others. Your post helped make this the most horizon-expanding trip we've taken recently.

Yes, we are going back in March for business. So it's just a few days each in Zhongshan, Shenzhen and Shanghai. Then over to Japan for ten days (I'll be posting for Japan recommendations this weekend).

We love the Staubbach. We first stayed there 13 years ago with our kids, shortly after Craig and Corinne had bought it and were starting to restore its faded glory. Renovations are moving along; it's a mom & pop operation so my sense is they renovated as funds and time permit, so there's still that feeling of homeyness and faded glory. The position is unrivaled, and, as I said, a room with a balcony facing up the valley makes the most of the view (although there are also communal balconies you can use for your evening drink as the setting sun fades from one peak after another, if you don't have one of the prime rooms). The one downside of these rooms is the sound of the late-night carousing at the pub a block away, but we survived that If Katrin is still working there, she's a treat -- very nice, helpful, and a wry sense of humor. The buffet breakfast will fuel your day of hiking (take some of the yummy pretzel rolls with you).

We did two delightful hikes, one above either side of the valley. They're really more like walks or rambles, with only a few moderately strenuous sections -- no worse than walking up Coal Hill or parts of the Great Wall -- you'll see families with young children and octogenarians in lederhosen. The various transports do the heavy lifting and you get the awesome views!
They're well documented everywhere so briefly:
1- Left side (as you face up the valley from the hotel) -- Cog railway to Wengen. Stroll this upscale ski resort. Cable car to top. Walk literally in the shadows of the Eiger, Jungfrau and Monch. I have not taken the train to the Jungfraujoch. There are cafes all along the way, and depending on conditions and your stamina, you can walk as far as you want and catch a train back to Lauterbrunnen.
2- Right side -- Cable car from Lauterbrunnen. We got off there and walked to Murren. You can also take the train to Murren and just walk from there, but the walk to Murren is very nice. From Murren, you can take a cable car down to the valley, or walk to Gimmelwald and take a cable car from there. All options are good. It just depends on how your legs and knees are feeling. From the bottom of the cable cars, you can either walk back to the Staubbach (as I did) or take a bus (as my wife did).
The valley itself is beautiful and easy to explore on foot, bike rental, or bus. Definitely check out the waterfalls, which should be dramatic when you're there.

Lago Maggiore.
Ascona is lovely. Like an Italian beach town on a lake. I have only stopped there for short visits.
My favorite town on Lago Maggiore is Stresa, but it may be too far south for you. Perhaps you can take a cruise that gets you down there and lets you walk around the Isole Boromee which are worth a visit.

Valle Verzaska is great because it's off the beaten track, known mostly by locals. It's relatively unspoiled. Farmers still bring their herds up the mountains in the summer, and the log chalets are authentic, not vacation homes. I've been there by car, so I can't comment on walking trails from village to village, but I imagine there are lots of options. Definitely get off at the bridge in Lavertezzo. It's beautiful and impressive. And, if the weather is good you could be treated to the spectacle of people jumping from the bridge into the river below. No, I've never done that but I have gone in the water pools below on a warm day.

IMO, Bellinzona is only worth a stop en route to Lugano just to see the castles. Not worth an overnight. Lugano's lake front is nice. Visit the Villa Favorita. I'd suggest going to the top of either Monte Bre or Monte San Salvatore. I once took the funicolare up San Salvatore and then walked to Morcote and took the boat back to Lugano. Probably about a 1 - 2 hour walk, but that was many, many years ago.

I hope some of this helps. Ask away if you have more questions.

LucyLemonade

<No need for a Swiss Museum Pass if you have a Swiss Pass .....(it) also gives free entry to 400+ Swiss museums.>

Oh, well that's perfect then! I'll see if I can't think of more good museums for KJA to visit.

kja

> LucyLemonade

The Zentrum Paul Klee is, indeed, in my plan – I love the playfulness of his work! Keep those great museum ideas coming!

And thanks for making sure I was aware of my pass options - they can make such a difference! As PalenQ noted, my Swiss Pass (already in hand) covers hundreds of museums, so I’m all set.

I can see why you would think my time in Fribourg, Neuchatel, and Gruyeres too limited. For what it’s worth, I expect to stop in Neuchatel just long enough to visit the Latenium. I expect to turn to detailed planning for this leg of my trip over the next week or so, so any suggestions you care to make about this area will be quite timely.

The itinerary that I presented at the start of this thread has survived so far with minimal changes. The minor tweaks are: I hope to visit the Lavaux upon arriving in Lausanne on day 3 rather than day 4; I will make time for the Valle Verzasca on day 11 or 12, and I hope to visit St. Gallen on the same day that I day-trip from Zurich to Winterthur.

I don’t have a specific budget for dinners, at least not yet. In general, I’m hoping to avoid spending a fortune, but would rather spend a bit more for a good meal than a bit less for a mediocre one. I am aware that a nice meal in some cities will cost a bit more than I am accustomed to spending. I will probably splurge a few times over the course of my trip. For the splurges, I can’t imagine thinking that my palette sufficiently refined to justify anything over $150 (counting food, wine, taxes, and tip).


> PalenQ

NOW you tell me that the Swiss Pass doesn't cover cows!?! Oh no!

Seriously, if any Fodorite fails to understand the benefits of the Swiss Pass, it is most assuredly his/her own fault! You are to be commended for so patiently and faithfully providing information about it!


> mrtaz

Again, thanks so much! It really is gratifying to know that my words helped another traveler. I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that you had complained – indeed, you provided a valuable service with your update. I hope you enjoy your next trip to China, and I am certain you will enjoy Japan! It is beautiful and fascinating and very, very easy to explore. The hard part will be deciding which places to visit. In the meantime, if you haven’t already seen it, you can find a LOT of very helpful information at japan-guide.com

I was very pleased to have booked with the Staubbach, which gets some really great reviews. It’s nice to hear that you’ve had such good experiences with the owners and staff over the years. I also appreciated your comments about the rooms sans balcony – having been assured that a communal balcony would be right across the hall, that’s what I booked.

I am looking forward to some wonderful walks while in Lauterbrunnen and have added your suggestions to my notes about my options there.

I’ll be looking into your suggestions for the Ticino, too. Unfortunately, it seems that the Villa Favorita is closed, but I’ll definitely keep my eye on it in the off-chance that it should open again - sounds like a very special place! I’m learning more about the Valle Verzasca and am really delighted by the prospect of visiting it.

Thanks so much for taking the time to make my trip better!