RESIDENCY QUESTION. Schengen
Jan 19th, 2024 | 06:31 AM
#41
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Joined: May 2005
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Thank you, Maribel!!
Will do! The Home Club got back to me immediately; as you thought, they do not rent for less than a month. AND late November is not available for the CANVIS flat.
I found what looks like a gorgeous place soon VRBO. I am waiting to hear back to see if my dates are available.
I will ask another question on a new thread..
Will do! The Home Club got back to me immediately; as you thought, they do not rent for less than a month. AND late November is not available for the CANVIS flat.
I found what looks like a gorgeous place soon VRBO. I am waiting to hear back to see if my dates are available.
I will ask another question on a new thread..
Jan 23rd, 2024 | 02:53 AM
#43
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 19,699
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Sep 27th, 2024 | 03:43 PM
#44
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,218
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Had a pretty long thread about Americans moving to Europe. Didn't realize it was closed by moderators last year.
CNN just published a story of an Indiana couple who decided to retire to Italy. They had hosted exchange students from Europe and one of them was from Italy who talked up life in her country and encouraged them to visit. The Indiana couple visited Italy several times before deciding to retire to Italy.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/us-couple...ain/index.html
The couple pivoted to Spain after reading on web forums about people who couldn't get a retirement visa for Italy so they had an easier time securing one in Spain.
They had never visited Spain nor spoke the language -- though they were trying to learn Italian with Rosetta and other self-taught materials.
But they made a visit, found that they liked it and successfully got a visa. They bought property in Catalunya, put money into renovation and managed eventually to secure health care coverage under the national system, with the husband getting back surgery without paying anything out of pocket.
CNN just published a story of an Indiana couple who decided to retire to Italy. They had hosted exchange students from Europe and one of them was from Italy who talked up life in her country and encouraged them to visit. The Indiana couple visited Italy several times before deciding to retire to Italy.
The Zdravichs, who both retired at the age of 62, had gotten to know Italy well during their visits, so it was top of their list of destinations to move to.
After doing some research into the prospect, they decided to go for it, and set about selling their three-bedroom home in Northwest Indiana in 2017.
The couple then packed some of their essential belongings into a crate, shipped them over to Italy, and “started getting rid of everything we owned.”
“We started selling stuff online, as much stuff as we could sell,” says Regina. “We gave a bunch to charity. It took a long time to get rid of everything.”
According to John, they “did well” from the sale of their house and were “pretty financially comfortable” as they prepared to relocate.
The Zdravichs left the US for Italy in January 2018, with their cat Sonya in tow. But things didn’t exactly go to plan.
They moved into an apartment in Salerno, near Naples, and began the process of applying for an elective residence visa, also known as an Italian retirement visa, a long-stay permit for non-EU citizens with a specific amount of passive income who intend to take residence in Italy.
“We needed a national fiscal ID (a tax code similar to a Social Security number) and we needed a lease on an apartment proving we had a place to stay,” says Regina.
After three months, the couple returned to the US to complete the rest of the process through the Italian Consulate in Detroit, hoping they’d be able to return to the country permanently once they had their paperwork in order.
“That wasn’t going to happen for another year,” says Regina, pointing out that she had only retired at the end of 2017.
Realizing that they were unlikely to be approved without these details, the disheartened couple chose to withdraw their application, and asked for their passports to be sent back to them.
After doing some research into the prospect, they decided to go for it, and set about selling their three-bedroom home in Northwest Indiana in 2017.
The couple then packed some of their essential belongings into a crate, shipped them over to Italy, and “started getting rid of everything we owned.”
“We started selling stuff online, as much stuff as we could sell,” says Regina. “We gave a bunch to charity. It took a long time to get rid of everything.”
According to John, they “did well” from the sale of their house and were “pretty financially comfortable” as they prepared to relocate.
The Zdravichs left the US for Italy in January 2018, with their cat Sonya in tow. But things didn’t exactly go to plan.
They moved into an apartment in Salerno, near Naples, and began the process of applying for an elective residence visa, also known as an Italian retirement visa, a long-stay permit for non-EU citizens with a specific amount of passive income who intend to take residence in Italy.
“We needed a national fiscal ID (a tax code similar to a Social Security number) and we needed a lease on an apartment proving we had a place to stay,” says Regina.
After three months, the couple returned to the US to complete the rest of the process through the Italian Consulate in Detroit, hoping they’d be able to return to the country permanently once they had their paperwork in order.
Stumbling blocks
John, pictured in Spain, says he and his wife they got the idea to move to Europe after traveling over to visit two foreign exchange students who had stayed with them. Regina ZdravichWhile they provided as much documentation as they could, the Zdravichs say they found the process “an absolute nightmare,” and reached a major stumbling block when they were aske to produce their income tax returns with their retirement income.“That wasn’t going to happen for another year,” says Regina, pointing out that she had only retired at the end of 2017.
Realizing that they were unlikely to be approved without these details, the disheartened couple chose to withdraw their application, and asked for their passports to be sent back to them.
The couple pivoted to Spain after reading on web forums about people who couldn't get a retirement visa for Italy so they had an easier time securing one in Spain.
They had never visited Spain nor spoke the language -- though they were trying to learn Italian with Rosetta and other self-taught materials.
But they made a visit, found that they liked it and successfully got a visa. They bought property in Catalunya, put money into renovation and managed eventually to secure health care coverage under the national system, with the husband getting back surgery without paying anything out of pocket.
Sep 28th, 2024 | 06:14 AM
#45
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
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'"managed eventually to secure health care coverage under the national system, with the husband getting back surgery without paying anything out of pocket."
As one who has bought property in Spain and secured a 5-year visa as of Nov. 29, 2023---a 3-year visa which will be renewed for 2 more years--after which I will become a permanent resident, I can explain about the health care coverage under the Spanish national system.
We will be eligible in 5 years to join the National Spanish Healthcare System, paying into Social Security.
In the meantime, in order to secure our visa, we needed to purchase private health care insurance with no copays and which covers no pre-existing conditions. The yearly cost to us has far been less than private insurance in the US.
We do not access currently the public hospitals but instead can be treated at no cost in private hospitals and private clinics (our insurance also includes dental but no drug coverage). Our doctors' visits at private clinics that accept our insurance, X-rays, EKGs, lab tests, preventive screenings (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc) are covered.
Prescriptions and prosthetics are not covered.
However,
when we applied for our private health insurance, a requirement for securing our visa, there was only one insurance company that would accept applications for those over 74 years of age. That was our reality. Because my husband was over 74, we had only one insurance option at that time.
After one year of residency we could opt to enroll in the Convenio Especial scheme which allows foreigners in Spain to pay a monthly sum into the country's public health system so as to access it. Even with pre-existing conditions we would have complete access to the system.
But for us it would be as costly, 175 euros per month /per person, for those over 65, as the private insurance we have now. (In Catalonia it is free).
And for adhering to the Convenio Especial there is a catch....
As is the case of every bureaucratic process here, there is paperwork involved with opting for the Convenio Especial You need to provide a letter--officially translated, notarized, with an apostille certificate-- from your home country (US) stating that you are no longer covered for health care there. In other words, we would need to cancel our Medicare part B coverage. If we needed to return to live in the US we could re-apply but would be charged quite a stiff penalty for the months that we had gone uninsured, or without Medicare Plan B, in the US.
The public healthy system here, as well as the private, is excellent, but the downside to the public system is the wait time for surgeries.
The matriarch of our family wanted for an entire year for her knee replacement surgery, which was done without cost at the Hospital de Gregorio Marañón, one of the 3 leading Madrid public hospitals for joint replacement surgery. Her recovery was quick, her surgeon excellent but the waiting time for SS non-life threatening surgeries is significant.
Just my experience as a recent Spain visa holder.
As one who has bought property in Spain and secured a 5-year visa as of Nov. 29, 2023---a 3-year visa which will be renewed for 2 more years--after which I will become a permanent resident, I can explain about the health care coverage under the Spanish national system.
We will be eligible in 5 years to join the National Spanish Healthcare System, paying into Social Security.
In the meantime, in order to secure our visa, we needed to purchase private health care insurance with no copays and which covers no pre-existing conditions. The yearly cost to us has far been less than private insurance in the US.
We do not access currently the public hospitals but instead can be treated at no cost in private hospitals and private clinics (our insurance also includes dental but no drug coverage). Our doctors' visits at private clinics that accept our insurance, X-rays, EKGs, lab tests, preventive screenings (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc) are covered.
Prescriptions and prosthetics are not covered.
However,
when we applied for our private health insurance, a requirement for securing our visa, there was only one insurance company that would accept applications for those over 74 years of age. That was our reality. Because my husband was over 74, we had only one insurance option at that time.
After one year of residency we could opt to enroll in the Convenio Especial scheme which allows foreigners in Spain to pay a monthly sum into the country's public health system so as to access it. Even with pre-existing conditions we would have complete access to the system.
But for us it would be as costly, 175 euros per month /per person, for those over 65, as the private insurance we have now. (In Catalonia it is free).
And for adhering to the Convenio Especial there is a catch....
As is the case of every bureaucratic process here, there is paperwork involved with opting for the Convenio Especial You need to provide a letter--officially translated, notarized, with an apostille certificate-- from your home country (US) stating that you are no longer covered for health care there. In other words, we would need to cancel our Medicare part B coverage. If we needed to return to live in the US we could re-apply but would be charged quite a stiff penalty for the months that we had gone uninsured, or without Medicare Plan B, in the US.
The public healthy system here, as well as the private, is excellent, but the downside to the public system is the wait time for surgeries.
The matriarch of our family wanted for an entire year for her knee replacement surgery, which was done without cost at the Hospital de Gregorio Marañón, one of the 3 leading Madrid public hospitals for joint replacement surgery. Her recovery was quick, her surgeon excellent but the waiting time for SS non-life threatening surgeries is significant.
Just my experience as a recent Spain visa holder.
Last edited by Maribel; Sep 28th, 2024 at 06:55 AM.
Sep 28th, 2024 | 10:46 AM
#46
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Joined: May 2005
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Maribel, thank you for that invaluable information.
My partner just learned (!!) that Medicare covers nothing outside the US.
So..question; Can you give a very general estimate of the annual cost for an excellent health care policy in Spain for someone (not me!!! Not yet!!). over 75 years of age!!!!
And that person could, if necessary, return to the US for joint replacement or other "non-urgent" surgeries. So for myself, I would be looking only at residing in Spain for a few months per year...but keep the US Medicare and all the rest......we would keep a residence in the US but downsize our current living quarters sharply, which we ought to do in any case...
My partner just learned (!!) that Medicare covers nothing outside the US.
So..question; Can you give a very general estimate of the annual cost for an excellent health care policy in Spain for someone (not me!!! Not yet!!). over 75 years of age!!!!
And that person could, if necessary, return to the US for joint replacement or other "non-urgent" surgeries. So for myself, I would be looking only at residing in Spain for a few months per year...but keep the US Medicare and all the rest......we would keep a residence in the US but downsize our current living quarters sharply, which we ought to do in any case...
Sep 29th, 2024 | 11:45 AM
#47
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
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Hi eks,
No, Medicare cover nothing outside of the US. My husband had triple bypass surgery here in a private hospital within less than 3 weeks of our arrival.....before we obtained our Spain medical coverage to secure our visa!!!
I'll look up our Spain policy (my husband handle the negotiations) and get back to you. But remember that it was a requirementfor our Schengen visa.
If you are thinking about a pied-a-terre for just 6 months or less during a year, over a number of trips, it just makes sense to keep your US coverage and purchase travel insurance with medivac coverage.
When we were going back and forth, 4 times per year, we really needed to be careful not to exceed the 90 day limit. At times, we came very close!
As you know very well, US citizens are limited to 90 days in the entire group of Schengen countries within any rolling 180-day period. Both arrival day and departure day count.
We still have our US Medicare coverage, as one never knows....as I mentioned, our Spanish private insurance does not cover pre-existing conditions (heart conditions or heart surgery, cancer, etc. both in my husband's case).
I have changed my drug plan, Part D, to the very cheapest available, as my monthly prescription drug costs here are minimal.
No, Medicare cover nothing outside of the US. My husband had triple bypass surgery here in a private hospital within less than 3 weeks of our arrival.....before we obtained our Spain medical coverage to secure our visa!!!
I'll look up our Spain policy (my husband handle the negotiations) and get back to you. But remember that it was a requirementfor our Schengen visa.
If you are thinking about a pied-a-terre for just 6 months or less during a year, over a number of trips, it just makes sense to keep your US coverage and purchase travel insurance with medivac coverage.
When we were going back and forth, 4 times per year, we really needed to be careful not to exceed the 90 day limit. At times, we came very close!
As you know very well, US citizens are limited to 90 days in the entire group of Schengen countries within any rolling 180-day period. Both arrival day and departure day count.
We still have our US Medicare coverage, as one never knows....as I mentioned, our Spanish private insurance does not cover pre-existing conditions (heart conditions or heart surgery, cancer, etc. both in my husband's case).
I have changed my drug plan, Part D, to the very cheapest available, as my monthly prescription drug costs here are minimal.
Sep 29th, 2024 | 11:53 AM
#48
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,218
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Don't you get Medicare even if you live outside the US?
I thought some people lived in like Costa Rica or Panama but would fly back for certain procedures in the US.
Of course you'd have to pay premiums for supplemental coverage like the Medigap plans and Prescription D.
I thought some people lived in like Costa Rica or Panama but would fly back for certain procedures in the US.
Of course you'd have to pay premiums for supplemental coverage like the Medigap plans and Prescription D.
Sep 29th, 2024 | 12:19 PM
#49
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,007
Likes: 50
Medicare covers nothing outside of the US or its territories. Of course if one travels back to the US for treatment, - then medicare covers it since one is then in the US.
Sep 29th, 2024 | 12:22 PM
#50
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,007
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Sep 29th, 2024 | 03:27 PM
#52
Original Poster
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 25,312
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Yes, you would need to do that before contemplating a move.
But if the move is for part time, you could keep the Medicare and fly home for anything really critical...assuming you were in a condition to fly home!!!
For sure, medications are SO much less pricey than in the US...even with no insurance coverage...why are we being gouged like that.....? Rhetorical question, of course!
But if the move is for part time, you could keep the Medicare and fly home for anything really critical...assuming you were in a condition to fly home!!!
For sure, medications are SO much less pricey than in the US...even with no insurance coverage...why are we being gouged like that.....? Rhetorical question, of course!
Sep 29th, 2024 | 03:33 PM
#53
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,218
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You'd have to have a multi-year visa.
Plus don't they deduct some of the Medicare premiums from Social Security payments?
But even if you're certain about coverage, what about communicating with a doctor in a second or third language?
Plus don't they deduct some of the Medicare premiums from Social Security payments?
But even if you're certain about coverage, what about communicating with a doctor in a second or third language?
Sep 30th, 2024 | 05:58 AM
#54
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
Likes: 0
scrb11,
Exactly what janisj has told you.
Medicare, again, doesn't cover any care outside of the US (or territories). And as janisj notes, if a US citizen living abroad, having Medicare coverage (part A & B), travels back to the US, his/her treatment is covered, as my husband's and mine would be if we were to travel back to the US for any treatment, surgeries, etc.
I explained above that our visa required us to obtain coverage here with no co pays.
In a year, we will chose not to opt for the Convenio Especial, as we do not want to cancel our Medicare supplemental policies, as life has a way of throwing curve balls when least expected (as I've found out already).
I have a Medigap policy and part D drug, and my husband has Medicare Advantage---which is a whole other kettle of fish, if you're following the current thread in the lounge. His is a Regence Blue Shield MA (not for profit) from the state of Washington, which actually did reimburse him, thankfully, for his emergency bypass, for which we're grateful. His overall MA experience, including world class cancer care at Fred Hutchinson, has been the (probably rare) exception to the rule for MA plans.
Our Medicare part A is automatically deducted from our Social Security payments.
About communication here with our doctors, I am fluent in Spanish, but not so my husband.
Our internist and his cardiologist speak perfect English as their offices are in an Anglo-American clinic here in Madrid, a completely bilingual, private clinic, recommended to us by the Embassy.
My husband has seen other English-speaking specialists, a vascular surgeon in private practice and a radiologist at a bilingual radiology center.
His 3 surgeons for his stent-to- triple bypass also spoke perfect English, as they were trained abroad (one trained at Harvard and practiced at Mass General with Valentín Fuster, now president of the Mount Sinai Fuster Heart Hospital). This surgery was performed in a private, bilingual hospital in Madrid. Although at this hospital not all the nurses are bilingual.
Quironsalud, Vitas Hospital Universitario, Clínica Universitaria de Navarra Madrid branch, MD Anderson Madrid branch and Clínica Ruber are bilingual private hospitals.
For minor ailments and general medicine, we go to a phyisican-owned clinic near our suburb whose general medicine physician does speak some English but his staff does not.
Exactly what janisj has told you.
Medicare, again, doesn't cover any care outside of the US (or territories). And as janisj notes, if a US citizen living abroad, having Medicare coverage (part A & B), travels back to the US, his/her treatment is covered, as my husband's and mine would be if we were to travel back to the US for any treatment, surgeries, etc.
I explained above that our visa required us to obtain coverage here with no co pays.
In a year, we will chose not to opt for the Convenio Especial, as we do not want to cancel our Medicare supplemental policies, as life has a way of throwing curve balls when least expected (as I've found out already).
I have a Medigap policy and part D drug, and my husband has Medicare Advantage---which is a whole other kettle of fish, if you're following the current thread in the lounge. His is a Regence Blue Shield MA (not for profit) from the state of Washington, which actually did reimburse him, thankfully, for his emergency bypass, for which we're grateful. His overall MA experience, including world class cancer care at Fred Hutchinson, has been the (probably rare) exception to the rule for MA plans.
Our Medicare part A is automatically deducted from our Social Security payments.
About communication here with our doctors, I am fluent in Spanish, but not so my husband.
Our internist and his cardiologist speak perfect English as their offices are in an Anglo-American clinic here in Madrid, a completely bilingual, private clinic, recommended to us by the Embassy.
My husband has seen other English-speaking specialists, a vascular surgeon in private practice and a radiologist at a bilingual radiology center.
His 3 surgeons for his stent-to- triple bypass also spoke perfect English, as they were trained abroad (one trained at Harvard and practiced at Mass General with Valentín Fuster, now president of the Mount Sinai Fuster Heart Hospital). This surgery was performed in a private, bilingual hospital in Madrid. Although at this hospital not all the nurses are bilingual.
Quironsalud, Vitas Hospital Universitario, Clínica Universitaria de Navarra Madrid branch, MD Anderson Madrid branch and Clínica Ruber are bilingual private hospitals.
For minor ailments and general medicine, we go to a phyisican-owned clinic near our suburb whose general medicine physician does speak some English but his staff does not.
Sep 30th, 2024 | 05:48 PM
#58
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,218
Likes: 0
I had stomach bleeding while in Mallorca several years ago. Fainted in the hotel lobby on a Sunday morning. They called a doctor who suggested I go to a private hospital because if I went to a public hospital emergency room, I could be waiting for a long time.
So I went by ambulance from Pollenca to somewhere near Palma de Majorca I believe. They admitted me and I spent the night, with IV drips I think they took X-rays, determined the cause.
It was a Quironsalud facility.
I can't recall if they prescribed anything for me. The solution was to take Omeprazole, for a few weeks.
The next day, I wanted to leave. Actually my return flight was scheduled in a day and I was suppose to check out of Pollenca the day I fainted.
The hospital said they didn't want to release me, that I couldn't fly in a day or two. My stuff was still back at the hotel, where I technically no longer had a room.
I think I looked up some things on my iPhone and was determined to leave and I told them I'm leaving.
In any event, they charged me $5000-5500, whatever the Euro equivalent was at the time. They had asked me for an insurance card and I told them I didn't have insurance in Europe. It turned out that my US insurance covers emergency hospitalization so the expense was applied to my deducible that year.
Credit card company reimbursed some of it for travel delay, interruption. Or maybe it was emergency health care.
But I found a lot of stories online about private hospitals in Spain being notorious for imposing very high bills to foreigners as well as British pensioners living in Spain and the private hospitals not accepting their NHS cards.
In the business office at the hospital, one of the staff told me that residents living in Spain could get private insurance, to get faster access to doctors in private hospitals such as theirs for like €50 a month in premiums. Said if I had such insurance, my stay would have been fully covered. Still the bill for seeing the doctor briefly and an overnight stay seemed more like US medical billing.
So I went by ambulance from Pollenca to somewhere near Palma de Majorca I believe. They admitted me and I spent the night, with IV drips I think they took X-rays, determined the cause.
It was a Quironsalud facility.
I can't recall if they prescribed anything for me. The solution was to take Omeprazole, for a few weeks.
The next day, I wanted to leave. Actually my return flight was scheduled in a day and I was suppose to check out of Pollenca the day I fainted.
The hospital said they didn't want to release me, that I couldn't fly in a day or two. My stuff was still back at the hotel, where I technically no longer had a room.
I think I looked up some things on my iPhone and was determined to leave and I told them I'm leaving.
In any event, they charged me $5000-5500, whatever the Euro equivalent was at the time. They had asked me for an insurance card and I told them I didn't have insurance in Europe. It turned out that my US insurance covers emergency hospitalization so the expense was applied to my deducible that year.
Credit card company reimbursed some of it for travel delay, interruption. Or maybe it was emergency health care.
But I found a lot of stories online about private hospitals in Spain being notorious for imposing very high bills to foreigners as well as British pensioners living in Spain and the private hospitals not accepting their NHS cards.
In the business office at the hospital, one of the staff told me that residents living in Spain could get private insurance, to get faster access to doctors in private hospitals such as theirs for like €50 a month in premiums. Said if I had such insurance, my stay would have been fully covered. Still the bill for seeing the doctor briefly and an overnight stay seemed more like US medical billing.
Oct 1st, 2024 | 01:48 AM
#59
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
Likes: 0
An explanation or two about the type of health insurance (no co pays, no deductibles) that complies for obtaining the non-lucrative or golden visa in Spain--
https://www.spainexpat.com/informati...nsurance-spain
https://spainguru.es/2023/10/23/unde...-requirements/
https://www.spainexpat.com/informati...nsurance-spain
https://spainguru.es/2023/10/23/unde...-requirements/
Dec 28th, 2024 | 11:05 AM
#60
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
Likes: 0
The best option here for retirees is the NLV, the non-lucrative visa, but knowing that it doesn't allow one to work in Spain, so one must have passive income in the US, as one can't earn income while in Spain with this NLV visa. The "golden visa", or investor's visa, will no longer exist, once the law repealing it passes Parliament (technically it hasn't yet but in 2025 it will eventually be rescinded).
Last edited by Moderator1; Dec 28th, 2024 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Removed response to a deleted post
