WoinParis

I have never stayed in illegal apt in the U.S.

MmePerdu

I suggest you do as I do, marvelous, don't speak to "certain relatives." Life is short. Better to spend it here correcting the ills of the world.

WoinParis

Ohhhh yes life is short. Just visited my cousin on Sunday. She is 52 and has the whole of 2 weeks in front of her.
So.
Have a beer. Have sex have friends. Drink. But don't tell me how I have to behave.
And she is fortunate. She lived 52 years.
I have been to too many burials of kids.

marvelousmouse

What do these wild tourists do, buferson? Bbq in the backyard? Abuse the free wifi at Starbucks? Buy the last case of Budweiser at the grocery store?


why...that sounds like an authentic local experience to me.

I understand the need for regulation and the dislike for people who deliberately attempt to find a workaround. But I also think that tourists are too often the easy target when most of the problem are preexisitng - local economy, class/race conflict, government corruption, and/or a housing shortage. It's never because of "us" it's always because of "them".

WoinParis

Sure. So we are not responsible. Easy.

Envierges

I think there's more than enough blame to go around. The hotel industry that paid no attention to a change in the way people wanted to travel. Banks who gave loans to out of area/country second home purchasers knowing that borrowers would need to depend on rental income, usually illegal, to pay those mortgages. Municipalities slow to enforce the rental laws already on the books because they weren't far sighted enough to imagine the consequences to neighborhoods. (political contributions from these rental entities? . . . surely that wouldn't be the case.) Amidst all this big time greed, how could the poor tourist possibly be held as maxima culpa?

buferson

Mouse, we are a 55+ community in a beach town. All owners bought their condo knowing that and that rentals have a minimum of three months. Those are our own rules, not laws. It's a very active community of mostly seasonal residents. There is a full schedule of activities of all kinds. We have had some owners start renting their units by the week. These renters have no interest in our community and since they are on vacation, have their own schedules and activities. When 6-8 people are crammed into a unit built for 2, the neighbors suffer. I could care less what they do at Starbucks or the grocery store. When they interfere with my way of life, I do care. You are free to adopt whatever rules you want where you live. So are we. So are the people in Paris.

Envierges

"Those are our own rules, not laws"

I don't understand. I'm assuming this is a condo. Are your condo bylaws being violated? Depending on where you live there is recourse for that. If these are building rules . . . . a different matter to enforce.

Blueeyedcod

So no owners in your 'over 55' community plays loud music - ever - or has friends over for a BBQ that goes on until the wee hours?

I am almost 55 and not about to give up the Rolling Stones, having parties and social gatherings. I'm not ready for croquet and bingo. This 'full schedule of activities of all kinds' sounds very nursing home to me.

You need to take your matter up with the owners - if they are breaking by-laws then you have recompense one would think?

MmePerdu

This thread has been very useful for separating the wheat from the chaff, socially speaking. By that I mean those I'd like to meet and those too 55 for me, even at my age.

kerouac

I am almost 55 and not about to give up the Rolling Stones, having parties and social gatherings.

I have to smile at this in view of that concert in California the other day where all of the performers were over the age of 70 (Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney...).

justineparis

Woinparis, i remember him.

fuzzbucket

People travel in the way I described in the 21st century, not the 1880's.
Studies have shown that herd mentality is a huge factor with how and why people travel.
You're blaming banks for illegal rentals??? When the building's regulations are presented for the buyer to examine before purchase???

You travel however you want to.
But you won't be able to rent apartments in Paris much longer.

Belinda

MdmPerdu, I'm traveling on business right now, but I'd love to take you to lunch sometime when I get home. You have some amazing experiences! I want to hear more!

Envierges

"You're blaming banks for illegal rentals??? When the building's regulations are presented for the buyer to examine before purchase???"

These sentences are not related. Sure banks take a share of the blame for this situation. When I bought here, mortgages were not given to foreigners. Foreign buyers like myself had to pay cash. Then seeing the business possibilities, greedy banks changed their loaning regulations. Whether or not the building regulations are presented to the buyer before purchase has zip effect if the building doesn't exercise its authority to enforce the regulations. If the regulations aren't enforced whats the point in having them?
The days of Scout's Honor are long gone.

buferson

Blue, no we don't play loud music. It's a small building with small units. We are all friends, so we make an effort not to annoy our neighbors. We go to the bars for our loud music. We grill and have our parties at our clubhouse. We don't do laundry at night. Not because we're old or dull, but because we're considerate of our friends. Short term renters have different priorities and it can be easy to do what you want around strangers. As in other places, the bigger problem is with owners.
In regard to rules, our city and county also usually lose since most owners who rent their units short term don't pay the rental tax. This is the tax that helps restore our beach, that same beach that draws so many visitors.

MmePerdu

Belinda, if you sign up on travelgumbo.com, you can message me (PortMoresby).

rouelan

Vueling is not some discount airline. its one of Spains biggest airlines.. and they are just as law abiding as any other airline.. same with all the well known lo cost airlines..

Justinparis, just few examples
Vueling
http://www.leparisien.fr/espace-prem...12-1846047.php
easyJet
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-div...e_1633019.html
Ryanair
http://www.liberation.fr/futurs/2014...simule_1131181

Personally, I dont fly any of these airlines that blatantly breach rules. But I dont ask others to do so as I consider it is up to justice to deal with it.

I just ask all of you that ask tourists not to use airbnb
1. To have a cohérent position, that is not 'I do it but I ask you not to do it'
2. Provide us with reliable sources référence to illégal rent

Sorry for this but I cant accepter that people close to me are called thieves. Was not you, was à Well known provocative fodorite but does not make à difference

WoinParis

Et si je dis que je m'en tape finalement ?
Just do a google search with 'Paris Appartement illegal' and read the ones that corresponds to what you will consider as reliable sources.
Not voici' but others.

If people close to you are behaving like thieves or fraudsters you have to accept them being called so.

As for your example Google has recently been condemned to a huge fine in Ireland I think ? So o hope you don't use it either.
And you have to break your glass windows since there was a cartel and 3 of the 4 majors have been fined. And you don't drive a VW since they lie.

WoinParis

People who hide behind excuses of all sorts to justify behaving like thieves can call me provocative. I find it interesting.