Simply untrue. And absolutely NOT what the Hay Group press release was saying.

It may not be what they were saying, but it isn't untrue. They provided two pieces of information: starting salaries and average, national salary inflation. That salary inflation is independent of any price inflation. It is simple math to guesstimate what the financial picture of the average graduate will be in 10 years. I wouldn't be shocked if I were off by a few thousand, but not that far off.

but most ordinarily talented and motivated graduates

I don't think the ordinary graduate is that talented, nor that motivated.

<i>should expect about a 50% salary hike in real terms (ie on top of inflation) over their first ten years at work.</i>

This would mean an average raise of roughly 8% per year. I don't think that is the norm. Of course, switching jobs a couple of times could make it a reality, but that isn't for everyone. And it is not always easy for those that live in secondary cities with fewer prospects.

Has anyone worked or lived in Germany? Would love to hear about whether spouses can work there as we may be relocated to Heidelberg in the next few months. Yay!

Caramia, I think your husband should start looking into finding a position now--if his professional skills are needed in the UK it's best if a UK company starts the work permit process before he arrives--assume you are coming from the US?

My experience may be out of date as I did an international relo from 92-through 96 which required my company to initiate the process based in part on the statement that my position could not easily be filled by a UK national.

I don't know how rigorously this statement was tested, but I do know it was a formal, several month process. The end result was a work permit renewable for five years after which I would have had to &quot;go local.&quot;

Spouses of people with work permits had difficulty finding work but I'm sure it's not impossible. My company did not provide sponsorship or assistance to spouses.

Again, this information is 12 years old.

Hi again, Caramia,

i'm a UK lawyer, but I have had friends who have dual qualified in the US as well. [usually they just had to take the BAR exams of the state in which they wished to practice, i think but this was some years ago.] thus it should be possible the other way round.

but i felt that your partner may not have time to do this, hence my suggestions as to how he could use his skills. definitely easier for him in the UK than elsewhere in europe, not just because we share a language, but also, unless you come from louisiana i believe, we have a shared common law basis for our legal systems.

klta - it would depend what sphere your spouse is qualified in. anything like medicine wil require proof of competence equal with german doctors, but also, I suspect, a language test. in theory, the principal of free movement of workers across europe requires the countries of the EC to enable professionals from other EC countries to move from one country to another. in practice, the language and differences in qualifications keeps most of the foreigners out.

however, i anticipate that your partner is not an EC national and may have problems passing a german test.

his professional body may be able to help.

good luck - Heidelberg is a great place.

regards, ann

Caramia, I find it funny that pretty much nobody has addressed your &quot;dream&quot; to live in Rome for 18-24 mos.

This is MY DREAM, too. I loved Rome and see no reason why it wouldn't be an absolutely lovely place to live and work. And it would also be a great place to base from to see the rest of Europe.

Of course, one major change is that I'd probaby give up a car and get a Vespa. Don't really need a car in Rome, IMHO. Most places are &quot;walkable&quot; and when they are not, public trans is awesome there.

I have no idea right now what cost of living would be there. But it's just me- no hubby or kids to worry about. The only thing keeping me in the US right now are my 6 lovely grandchildren (whom I'm madly in love with). But I'm still working it.

I'm still young enough (52) to enjoy the travel and my encouraging friends say I can see/talk to my grandkids via computer as often as I want. (But I can't squeeze 'em and cover 'em with kisses!)

So, I wish you the best of luck in your quest!!! And I know we would all appreciate it if you keep posting here to let us know how things fare for you.

Godspeed and God Bless!!!

Paula

PS I looked at American employers with offices in Europe. The other thing I'm looking into is possibly getting a Croatian passport. My grandfather was born there and I believe that would entitle me to apply for citizenship. Unfortunately, 2 things cause worry: 1) I'd have to give up my US citizenship and 2) While Croatia has applied for EU status, they are not yet a member. Once they are, then as an EU country citizen, I would be free to live and work in any EU country.

&lt;&lt;2) While Croatia has applied for EU status, they are not yet a member. Once they are, then as an EU country citizen, I would be free to live and work in any EU country.&gt;&gt;

Probably not, most EU countries have prevented the new EU member countries from freely working in their own country for a number of years after EU entry.

I believe the only countries that allowed free entry immediately, were UK, Ireland and Sweden??.

&gt;&gt;London is a class above virtually any other city in the world&lt;&lt;

Do Americans sound so pompous when speaking about American cities? If so, then I think I'm starting to understand why there's so much anti-Americanism. We deserve it.

Sarge56: I am reasonably sure, but would advise checking on the State Department web site and doing a lot of research, that the U.S. does not require surrender of your passport or citizenship if you take out citizenship in another country-probably with some key exceptions.

I can only speak for the experience of Irish Americans whom I know. They continue to hold both passports after claiming Irish citizenship based on ancestry. So, I think that's the least of your worries.

Now, there are probably countries which require renouncing former citizenship to become a citizen--check with Croatia on that.

The reason I have not taken out Dutch citizenship is that they require me to give up my British citizenship, so it is quite possible that Croatia has a similar requirement. And most European countries do indeed limit the ability of citizens of new EU countries to work in their country.

Caramia, everyone seems to assume you have chosen London. Is this the case?
Maybe your husband would be able to find some other work for the period of time you are abroad, or be willing to do voluntary work if you can live off one salary. Do not be put off by the language problems.

This is just such a huge question, it is hard to give an answer without knowing more about you and what you expect from this relocation. The countries you have listed are also quite different in terms of the climate, culture and lifestyle, so again, it is hard to give advice. I think it is impossible to compare apartment size and quality in Sydney with that of London, it is apples and oranges really. I think the most I can do is relate some of my experience.

By way of background, I grew up in the US and am a US citizen, but have lived outside the US for the past 18 years. I have lived in Singapore (5 years), Zurich (4 years) and Hong Kong (two postings currently live in Hong Kong now so about 9 years total). I loved living in them all, for different reasons, and think each offers a lot. (I personally would put Hong Kong on your list if your employer is offering it.) I am also a US lawyer. Here are my thoughts/experiences:

1. It is a wonderful experience, I would not change it at all. I cannot say enough good things about how positive the experience has been for me. That being said, I do know a small number of people who have not had the same experience as myself, so you may have to prepare yourself for the fact that you may get someplace and in fact <i>not</i> like it. Would you have a contingency plan for that, and how would that affect your spouse. I am not married, but from what I see, I think a foreign move is hard on a marriage; but it may just be hard on those marriages that may have been shaky to begin with.

2. Any of the countries in Europe or Asia on your list would, IMO, offer a good quality of life, and the ability to travel easily around Europe. Europe has a wonderful transport infrastructure and certainly has a very good standard of living. I think all offer good housing stock, much will depend on what you are willing to spend, but in terms of relative safety of neighborhoods and access to public transport, I think all offer this in abundance (other than Auckland NZ, which is quite spread out and has little public transport, it is more like LA in that respect, the same can perhaps be said some Australian cities, Sydney however is quite good). I would agree that you may have to be satisfied with a smaller apartment esp in London and perhaps Rome, this may depend on where you live in the US now too. (A studio in NYC may mean you get a step-up in Rome to a larger flat.) In terms of weather and lifestyle, I also would pick Italy (although at times I know that day to day living would be frustrating there with the bureaucracy etc). I loved Zurich for the city itself and the ability to get into the glorious countryside (although the bureaucracy there can be frustrating too, but because of its over-efficiency, not its inefficiency). London is a wonderful city with so much to do and see. However, IMO, unless you can spend a good bit of money on rent to be in a close-in location, you may have a long commute to your office which can interfere with the quality of life to some extent (dark winter days do not help either, but the pubs do).

3. There are lots of financial things to consider. It appears you do not have any sort of package worked out with your employer. Every company is different, and is it impossible to generalize. Your employer’s package may also differ greatly from country to country. The cost of living is different in each of the places you mention, as are tax rates. You have to get this information from your employer as to what they would offer in terms of salary, cost of living adjustment, housing allowance, payment for moving your household goods, home leave allowance (paying for a trip home once a year), tax equalization (very useful in a high tax jurisdiction, sucks here in Hong Kong with only a 15% tax rate). If you have children now or in the future, will your employer pay for schooling or help with tuition? (English language schools with a US curriculum can be quite expensive in a place like Zurich.) Then things like health insurance coverage needs to be considered, whether you would sell or rent your US home, etc. None of these are reasons NOT to go, but all must be considered. If you do not have children to find schools for and do not have financial commitments in the US like a house, then it becomes easier, but still there is lots to consider. For example, if you do have a home in the US which you want to keep, and have mortgage payment to make each month, getting paid in local currency may not be ideal for you (currently it may be good with a weak Dollar, but in years to come you may not like it so much having to buy increasingly expensive US Dollars to pay a mortgage. It can work both ways.)

4. Your husband may be able to find work at a US firm or in-house with a US company. It is <i>very, very</i> unlikely that he will qualify to practice local law, short of going back to law school in that country. I have never been permitted to be admitted to the local bar anywhere I have lived, but have never needed to as there have always been US legal jobs available. (States in the US are fairy generous in that respect compared to the rest of the world, but most states still generally require that foreigner first get a master of laws (LLM) before they may sit for the bar exam in a state). Also, all the European countries on your list other than the UK do not have a legal system based on common law like that used in the US, they use civil law based on the Napoleon Code, so few European firms would find his legal training to be useful for European operations (they might find it useful for any US operations they have, but he would not have to be qualified for a local bar to practice US law in Europe). I do not believe the UK would give him admission as a solicitor or barrister based on his US qualifications, at least I have never heard of this happening. However, London has a huge number of US law firms and many US companies, and most if not all of the other European cities on your list do as well. (I worked in Zurich for a large US multinational company.) I think Austalia would be a long shot for a US lawyer, as there are few (if any) US law firms and only a few US companies, none of which have US in-house lawyers to the best of my knowledge.. (Believe me, I would move to Sydney in a heartbeat…) His ability to find a job would depend somewhat on his area of practice and his experience. If he is a banking or tax lawyer, I would say quite easy, if he is a litigator, that is quite tough unless he is willing to start over in another field. If he is quite junior (say 3-5 years out of law school) then he could easily start over in another law field if he wanted to. Also, perhaps he wants to do something completely different from law, and this would be a good opportunity to do that (lots of us are really frustrated writers, so maybe he could write the Great American Novel while you support him.)

If he wants to stay in the legal field, there are many headhunting firms out there that recruit for overseas lawyers, one place to start would be Major Lindsey &amp; Africa, probably the best known in the business for lawyers, see http://www.mhaglobal.com/. Also tell him to get on to Martindale Hubbell and start looking by city for US firms with offices overseas…. http://www.martindale.com/.

&quot;Once they are, then as an EU country citizen, I would be free to live and work in any EU country.&quot;

Not so.

Romanians and Bulgarians can't be employed in most EU countries and there are still some Western EU members that won't let Poles be employed. Oddly, though, EU membership does give a country's citizens almost unrestricted rights to live everywhere else - so Romanians can be self-employed in most of the rest of the EU.

Perhaps more importantly, there's no &quot;when&quot; about Croatia's membership: it really still is a big &quot;if&quot;. There's absolutely no realistic timetable, and Croatia's accession raises all sorts of other questions that change all the time: about expansion generally, about the rest of former Yugosolavia, about extending new memberships to non-members of NATO and about Russian sensitivity to membership of more ex-Communist countries.

So don't expect Croatian citizenship to entitle you to work in Italy, Britain or Germany much before 2020. If then.

Sorry, just re-read my post, and have to say that living in NZ and Australia would obviously <u>not</u> make it easy to travel around <i>Europe</i>…one thing on living in NZ especially, is that other than travelling around NZ which is really gorgeous, it is a very long way from anything but Fiji/Tahiti, and going over to Australia (which are 3-5 hours or so by air). It is 10-12 hours or more to most anywhere in Asia, so does not really lend itself to weekend trips, etc. Australia is almost the same, it is a larger country with more to see and is a little closer to Asia, but overall, I would not look at either as an “idea’ location for exploring Asia. They are too far apart. But for 18-24 months you probably would find plenty to explore within NZ or Australia. (Bali is not bad from some parts of Australia).

Living in Hong Kong, on the other hand, is a perfect base for exploring Asia. I am writing this from Bangkok, a mere 3-hour flight. (Here for the weekend for some fun.) Its 14 hours from Auckland and about 10 from Sydney.

If your husband is a US qualified lawyer (and not also UK qualified) it is not impossible for him to work as a lawyer in the UK. I did. The magic words to google are &quot;registered foreign lawyer&quot;. That doesn't mean you are a barrister or solicitor but you can practice US law there the same as home, perhaps with an American law firm with a London office (that's what I did) or in house, in either case, advising about US law. Also if you don't otherwise have a way to legally work in the UK you should look into whether you qualify for the &quot;Highly Skilled Migrant Program&quot; visa. Generally, if you can prove your have a US college degree, a history of earning a reasonable amount of money and are fluent in English you can get this visa, which allows you to do whatever someone will give you a job doing. This visa is personal&quot; to you so you do not depend on a specific employment commitment or other support of an employer you just show up.

The rules for work permits in the Uk have changed and are continuing to do so; but if you, Caramia, get a permit, your husband will be allowed to come and to work since he will be your &quot;dependent&quot;.

I would be surprised if he did not find work as a US qualified attorney in London (or in Aberdeen, where our oil industry is dominated by US companies)