Relocation to Europe
 

Hello All
I may have the opportunity to work in Europe for 18 to 24 months. The dream that I share with my husband is to live in Rome. However, that location may not be possible. Other destinations that I could consider include: London, Zurich, Amsterdam, and Luxembourg. Oh, also, Australia and New Zealand. But, I am curious if anyone can comment on their thoughts regarding quality of life in these countries. (i.e. how do salaries generally compare with cost of living; are rents extremely high, quality of apartments, etc.)? Also, from a travel perspective which locations work best in terms of being able to travel to other areas of Europe. Any thoughts or comments are appreciated - thanks!

We just moved from Vancouver to London and we just love it. I am a Chartered Accountant and make about what I would make in Vancouver (i.e. if I would make 50k CDN I would be making 50K GBP). We find the cost of living about the same. We pay way more rent but we live in zone 2 of central london, but food I think is cheaper, and we dont have a car here. We find it all evens out.

Plus the travel opportunities are fantastic here. London is a hub for cheap airlines, eurostar trains etc...perfect for travel!

There is a thread by a bunch of expats floating around...I'll top it for you.

I just topped it so hopefully you will find it! Good luck!

Jamikins:
Thank you so much for your feedback, and thanks for topping the other thread. I look forward to reading it. Do you work for a Big 4 accounting firm?

I used to, but moved to work for an investment bank in Jan...

If you have any other questions let me know :)

London is a class above virtually any other city in the world - pity it's so expensive and half the world & their dog seems to live there

You could get away with speaking American in Amsterdam & Luxembourg but you'd be happier if you can speak da local lingo

It is expensive, but even more so when you are a tourist due to the exchange rate. Everyone commented on how expensive it is but we find it about equal to Vancouver...although Vancouver is very expensive as well. Just keep in mind that if you are making GBP its not as bad. If you will be making USD or CDN then it will be VERY expensive to live here.

We lived in London from the US last year. We found almost everything to cost exactly twice as much as here in Chicago. Newspapers, coffee, dry cleaning, movies, clothes, household items, etc. so the same number in dollars or pounds, such as 1.61 for a Starbucks tall coffee, or 9.50 for a first run movie. So if your salary is adjusted to the same number of pounds as dollars, great, or if you have corporate relocation package that includes housing, COLA, etc. great, but if not, not so great. As a housing example, as a 40 something couple with no kids we had a corporate housing allowance with a budget from them of 900 pounds per week (in London rents are typically quoted per week not per month) which got us a decent but not spectacular 800 square foot two bedroom furnished apartment in a central neighborhood. We had a great year but it was not cheap. It's easy enough to check out prices on line in London. As examples you could use www.foxtons.co.uk for apartment rentals, www.tesco.co.uk for groceries and such and www.johnlewis.com for clothes and household items. We didn't travel to "the continent" as much as we would have liked due to our work commitments but we had great fun exploring greater London and other parts of Southern England on day trips. We also enjoyed a lot of London theater and independent film. It's a great opportunity if you don't have to worry too much whether you are coming out exactly even in the money department compared to staying in the U.S.

I'll put in a word for Amsterdam. Accommodation can be expensive, but no where near as high as in London. It is a lively city, lots of culture, nightlife, thriving expat community. It has direct train links to Paris, Berlin etc, one of the nicest airports anywhere only 20 minutes away by train.

However if I had the chance I'd op for New Zealand :)

If you’re interested in staying in a European city and seeing Europe on a wide scale then check out the city hups for Ryan Air. London or Dublin would be the best cities because the destinations to visit for great travel prices are from those. And these cities are great. We've just come back from Ireland and Dublin is still bustling. Would be a great city to live in I think. And the poeple are so friendly. Lonon is London. You could'nt go wrong.

Well, we have a one bedroom 1000 sq foot flat in Clapham (zone 2) for 350 GBP a week. I cant even imagine having a 900 GBP a week allowance...we would be living in the lap of luxury...guess it depends on what you expect. We pay just ove 1500 GBP a month, which is expensive if you convert. But we paid 1300 CDN for our mortgage a month in Vancouver...but we make the same (90K in CDN, and 90K GBP) so its not that big of a difference for us. Totally depends on your expectations.

Oh those you mention, for me Amsterdam is the only one I could picture actually living in for a couple years.

I would do London or Amsterdam. Luxembourg is just too sleepy for me, as is Zurich, though it would rank ahead of Luxembourg. I would give Australia a hard look though.

I hesitate to comment too much on the cost side, as so much depends upon your salary and relo package. But all of the cities you mention (except Lux, maybe) will be more expensive than just about anywhere in the US or Canada.

As to travel. London has the most flights, but you are also a bit out there and will have further to travel to get to much of the rest of Europe. Amsterdam or Zurich would probably offer a decent compromise of plentiful flights and trains, as well as being geographically more convenient.

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments! They give me a lot to think about! My salary will be in the local foreign currency. But, I'm not sure what it will be. It seems like some of you were offered one for one. (i.e. if i make 90k USD I would be offered 90k GBP)?(Jamikins - I would also be relocating with a Big 4).

Also, thanks for your information on the rent details - that is very helpful.

Thanks for starting this thread Caramia. DD is interested in working in Europe when she graduates in May. Originally she planned to limit her search to England or Spain because of language. She has since discovered employers are willing to hire in other countries and pay language lessons. Does anyone know of some European job websites similar to the US ones (monster, careerbuilder, etc.)?

Hi Caramia,

My family and I moved to Zurich 18 months ago from a suburb an hour outside NYC. It has been an amazing experience and I would highly recommend it.

My comments here are just MHO and others may disagree. It's good to hear various opinions as, let's face it, we're all a bit different in our likes, needs, preferences and stage of life.

Zurich consistently ranks number one on the various "QOL" surveys and the reasons include: convenience, safety, sport, healthcare, jobs, transportation, etc. etc.

Zurich is a charming little city with easy train access to the rest of this wonderful little country and Paris as well. It does not have the excitement and activity of Rome. It has other fine qualities, however, and Rome is a short, cheap flight away. I don't know Luxembourg but I do love both Amsterdam and London. London is extremely expensive right now, and Switzerland is also very pricey esp. if you are paid in USD. Culturally, many criticize Switzerland, but I have found lots of culture here to enjoy and I actually take advantage of it unlike I did in NYC. Of course, London and Amsterdam are also culture-rich.

I would jump at the chance to live in Amsterdam and I wouldn't say no to London, although I find many British to be so negative about everything American it can be a bit of a turn-off sometimes. Perhaps that's just an ex-pat thing, as I have American friends actually in London who are happy. I have had friends who have lived in Aust. and NZ as well who had great experiences.

I love so many things about the Zurich location for a first stay in Europe. It is very central in Western Europe and so easy to get everywhere else from here, and I've traveled extensively. Plus, most in Zurich speak English which is nice if you don't speak Swiss-German. I speak some German but language is an issue to consider here esp. if you plan to work. I haven't been able to find work in my field as of yet due to the language.

Switzerland is a beautiful, clean, active country. The Swiss culture is reserved but helpful and non-judgmental if not always effusive or friendly. Yes, they have rules, and follow them, but that's key to the QOL that ensues. They don't "do" lines which is unnerving even after 18 months, but I accept this as a cultural difference and no longer take it personally.

I would not say my family or I are real well integrated into Swiss life. We have a wonderful Swiss neighbor with an American wife and they are a godsend - our true friends here. I have a few other Swiss women I'm friendly with, but they have all lived overseas so have a different point-of-view to foreigners. My kids know a few Swiss children but not closely. I don't hang out with the "American" moms - my deliberate choice - so I can be a bit lonely sometimes, although after 18 months I'm finally finding "my people."

Our apt is very nice, a bit small, in a very nice area and we pay a lot for it IMO. You will have to look at your current housing prices and compare, because we moved from an expensive NYC suburb and still found it higher here, but we are literally on the edge of the city (5 minutes by car or bus) so of course it costs more. Our tenants in our house in CT are from London and think the $5000/month rent is cheap...That income doesn't cover our rent here...but it helps with our travel costs. We get a housing allowance from the company and we looked at about 30 places before we found something in the suggested range which we thought would work for our family of 4. Okay, we could have lived in a cheaper place, but we wanted something comparable lifestyle-wise to what we left. (I don't mean in size as our place here is definitely much smaller.) Most of the ex-pats from the US I meet found the housing a big change, but you adjust quickly to less and I even enjoy having a smaller place esp. given the cost of "help."

Our car cost more here, but we only got one. In the US we really needed 2. Here we probably could have not gotten a car at all. I only fill the tank every couple of weeks which is really great. My kids take public trans to all their activities and to school and my husband takes the train to work. I'm lazy and drive to the grocery, but I could easily walk or take the bus. When I go downtown I take the tram.

Dining out, pizza, clothes shopping, groceries, dry cleaning, appliances are just really, really expensive in Switzerland compared to the US. Salaries seem comparable for very high-level jobs and better for lower level jobs. My housekeeper here makes in an hour about the same as I made as a nurse in CT. De-moralizing sometimes! I would fire her, but I already feel a bit cranky from all the "Hausfrauing" I do here compared to back home;) My daughter makes 15/hour babysitting. And she's always broke as it's expensive here for teens too.

I don't love the food so much, but if you like pasta and veal you'll be fine. I do a lot more housework, cooking, etc. here than at home just because of how expensive everything is and because appliances are much smaller (W/D, refrigerator, freezer). I don't care how good the meal is (and it's usually just average IMO), I just don't feel like paying 48 dollars for an entree out, so we cook a lot more - there is very little in prepared food or "takeout."

OTOH, I have the wonderful hiking, the gorgeous lakes, and best of all, the travel.

Just to get your mouth watering... So far I've been to Paris X 3, Normandy, Amsterdam, London, Rome, Venice, Amalfi Coast, Ravenna, Meersburg, Vienna, Salzburg, Colmar/Strasbourg, Morocco, Santorini, Southern Spain and I'm sure I've forgotten somethingg. I've seen much of Switzerland with lots more interesting trips to take here. Next week we head to Berlin. In Sept. Provence. And I still have a long wish list before the stay ends...

I'm not ready to go back "home" yet.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Hope this is helpful.

Good Luck!!!! don't miss this opportunity of a lifetime.

gruezi

Look at it this way: if Europeans can afford to live in Europe, why couldn't you?

I find it odd that you mention 2 non European countries, Australia and New Zealand, in among European cities.

Australia is huge, NZ tiny. Living in Sydney vastly different to Adelaide for example.

I would have jumped at the chance to work and live anywhere in Europe. I now do (from Australia) but am not allowed to work here.

We are Australians and moved to live in London. We quit our jobs at home and moved here, paying all costs ourselves and found jobs when we arrived. It hasn't all been easy but worthwhile as we love being so close to Europe.

We like London but find it expensive, especially rent and UK transport (trains particularly) but we manage OK. We do travel a LOT to Europe, you can get cheap airfares and the Eurostar is fantastic.

Some sites for jobs are
www.jobserve.com
www.reed.com (www.reed.co.uk)
www.gumtree.com

If you moved to Australia, you would have a good quality of life, the food is good there, good weather, healthy outdoors type lifestyle, good health system etc. People are friendly. But the thing to remember is you are LONG way from anywhere else. There is a lot to see within Australia but airfares can be expensive and distances vast. You would be close to NZ, Fiji, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, Bali etc which is where a lot of Aussies holiday.

Kay