tedgale

Do the people who insist that "He dove" is mandatory usage also employ the corresponding correct but rather precious-sounding past tense of "thrive", viz. "He throve"? Doubt it.

I recognize it and may even have written it but I invariably say "He thrived", just as I say " He dived".

Oh jeez, I was just reading The New Yorker's scathing review of Eats, shoots & leaves and now I can't remember whether my punctuation is supposed to go inside the quotation marks or outside, at the sentence's conclusion. (We Canadians have the option of English or American usage.)

merrittm

I love these threads. They start as something and end up "a horse of a different color"! Creflour, you are hysterical. I've had many an encounter where I couldn've been embarassed but found the whole thing too funny (e.g., in Spanish, the difference between "arina/rice" and "urina/urine" is just one little vowel. Please imagine what noun I asked for a bag of....)
To got1tiel - Use any old language you can to get your point across! I've used combos of French, Italian, Spanish, English and German, and charades in a conversation. It is all too funny and makes the travel experience more memorable. I blithely massacre several languages, thinking that if I think their accents are cute, they've GOT to love mine. But nothing beats my Mom or Dad, each learning Spanish or French overladen with a thick Kentucky drawl. About as close to unintelligable as possible!
As for rudeness, there is not a country in the world that has the monopoly on rudeness. One can only do one's best and hope for grace under pressure.

SuzieC

Kind of from another point of view. My mother had a friend, Danielle. She, as young French girl married a GI, and came the US, when she could after WWII. She returned home every 2 years just to update her accent so she didn't lose it! Oh how it worked for her! "...er, how you say...??" It works for me over there...more or less...

suze

I returned last night from my own trip so haven't read the BB for awhile.

But somehow am not surprised to see complaining from Sam whose pre-trip postings consisted of an unreasonable obsession with pickpockets in Paris. I have personally found so much is in your attitude; I feel you should expect and will receive the welcome you deserve.

Secondly, rather than struggling and bothering people with your inadequate French~ practice, practice, practice and perfect (in French) the phrase "I'm sorry... I don't speak French". I promise much more positive results.

ira

> I can't remember whether my punctuation is supposed to go inside the quotation marks or outside,...<

H. AllenSmith has a lovely story about this. His editor insisted that the period go inside the quotes. He insisted (as do I) that the period ends the sentence, and so, should go outside.

It ended with,

Dear Sir, as I told you earlier, "I quit"..........................!

Mary_Fran

I certainly didn't expect most of the people I encountered in France to speak English and was not at all upset when they didn't. However, I was surprised at how much English I heard simply watching television, and I remember thinking, "Boy, it's hard to imagine how anyone in France could avoid learning English, with all of it one hears on television."

The culture police seemed to be obviously losing the battle on the purity of the French language. Even listening to popular music, it was hard for me to imagine some of it not filtering into the psyche.

PatrickLondon

And as for consistency in English, there's an old shaggy-dog story about the foreigner who struggled for years to achieve mastery of English in his own country, walked for hours to catch the train for a long journey across Europe to London, where he found on arrival newspaper bills with the review of the latest West End hit: "Cavalcade - pronounced success". So he turned round and went home again.

RufusTFirefly

Quotation marks and punctuation--don't know whether or not someone already covered this, but according to various academic sources...

In American usage, periods and commas always go inside the closing quotation mark. Other punctuation goes outside, unless it's part of the quoted material.

In British usage, all punctuation goes outside unless it's part of the quoted material.

ira

>In American usage, periods and commas always go inside the closing quotation mark. Other punctuation goes outside, unless it's part of the quoted material.<

That's even dumber than the "shall/will" rules.

Ramblero

Well....shoot. I'm justa dumb ol' 'merican and grewed up inna sea o' dumb ol' 'mericans. I never had any exposure to foreigners...much less foreign languages. (There weren't any in Wisconsin or Illinios in the 50's. Least from what I could see.) I studied French in high school and college, by the end of which, given no opportunity (see above), I could have carried on a reasonable conversation with a 3-4 yo French person...or a 15 yo French dog. Maybe. On a good day with a tail wind.

I am reminded of my 1st morning in Santorini when I asked the desk clerk how to say "good morning" in Greek. (The foreign language gene having been bred out of my family about 4-500 years ago, as far as I can figure.) "Kalhmera!", she said. With bag slung over my shoulder and camera at the ready, I burst forth at 7:30 am, repeating under my breath "kalhmera, kalhmera, kalhmera...." Over the course of several hours and many distracting scenic sights, "kalhmera!" gradually evolved to kalimeri!....kalameri!?....calameri???....to....to ....yes, that's it...Calamari!!! That's it!! Calamari!!! You can't imagine the shrieks of hysterical delight with which I was greeted by every one of the elderly all-in-black Greek women out sweeping their walks that early Sunday morning as I greeted each of them with "Good Squid" instead of "Good Morning".

ealing_calling

LOL! Squidtastic!!

Another shining example of the spirit over the letter of the (foreign language) law. Intention is everything! Humor an added bonus . . .

My limited Greek disappears after the 1st whiff of retsina (or anything stronger). The only word I can remember is 'oreo' -- beautiful (like the cookie). Pron. oh-ray'-oh.

Passing a guy whitewashing a wall? Oreo.
Shopfront: oreo.
Pretty view: oreo.

Locals nod, say 'bravo, neh oreo.'
It gets you by!

got1tiel

vindicated.