marginal_margiela

There is racism everywhere, so just be prepared for it. If you have an incident, try not to let it ruin your holiday.

I have traveled all over Spain and have seen aspects of racism--little things that could be annoying but not life threatening.

Eric_S

I never heard that nickname. and who cares about a bunch of football hooligans. I still think the fact that major national newspapers like El Pais routinely write "Jewish Army" (ejercito hebreo) instead of "Israeli Army" when referring to the IDF should give some clues about the general level of sensitivity in Spain for this kind of issues.

begbie

right:
"Spain is definitely less PC than the UK or the US. Newspapers refer to the IDF as the "Jewish Army". "
what newspapers do YOU read?? i do believe they refer to them as israeli armed forces. you should get our more.

begbie

right:
"Spain is definitely less PC than the UK or the US. Newspapers refer to the IDF as the "Jewish Army". "
what newspapers do YOU read?? i do believe they refer to them as israeli armed forces. you should get out more.

marginal_margiela

Sorry, darling, posted to soon.

I also wanted to say that when I was traveling in Spain with my friend, Cynthia, an Hispanic Californian, I witnessed "slights" against her when she spoke Spanish to several people. At least three people corrected her Spanish or told her they didn't understand her because her Spanish was "Mexican," not "pure" Spanish. Cynthia became upset in Barcelona when a cafe worker made a deragatory remark about "Mexican-Americans who come to Spain thinking that they are Spanish, but they are just n******."

This is just anecdotal evidence, so take it for what it is worth.

Eric_S

begbie, maybe you have heard of "El Pais", the most widely-circulated newspaper in Spain?

Here's just an example from Sept 2006.
http://tinyurl.com/wbocy
" ... cerca de la verja murieron ayer en ataques del Ejército judío en las cercanías de Jan Yunis."

They use "Ejercito hebreo" and "ejercito judio" routinely.

Google is your friend, use it before making an *** of yourself.

nixx

Begbie

firstly i have lived in Spain, well Bilbao anyway (some would argue it is not Spain but that would be a whole new thread) - plus having lived in all 3 countries I do not agree with your comment that the UK and USA is 'probably more racist than Spain'

in fact i think your dismissive attitude about the severity of the Aragones comments is indeed an indication that Spain is years behind other countries in dealing with any problems with racism (which as you rightly point out occurs in all countries) - the fact that he called him 'negro de mierda' (black shit) rather than 'frances de mierda' (french shit) is of course the whole problem and the fact that you dont see this is saddening

Eric_S

But then again, if we consider that begbie has used this website at least 60 times to promote his/her own crappy website - just click on the handle - we begin to understand. Had I clicked sooner, I wouldn't have bothered researching the El Pais quote.

laclaire

I have been out of circulation on this forum for a few days, and came back to find this, which is indeed an interesting post.

Spain is not PC and I am still working to determine if being PC has a particularly positive effect on society. I think that slurs and open racism are completely inappropriate, but what I think is even worse is riding the high horse and being so PC and then behind closed doors sharing the same sentiments as radical or even general racists. That said, Spain is quite low on racial violence. Yes, I notice that Spaniards tend to recoil from darker people. A dark Dominican friend of mine who speaks perfect English went for an interview to teach it and the owner said "for you we only have house cleaning." So, she got a job putting out flyers on the Ramblas and was approached and asked how much an hour with her would cost (and no, she was not dressed like a hooker). She said she was not a hooker and the guy said "where are you from?" "DR." "And you are not a hooker?" "No." "Really?"

If anyone wants the photo I am about to refer to, e-mail me, but la Caixa de pensions, a bank here, has a program called "obra social" which is supposed to promote jobs for the marginalized and other possibilities of social progress. The particular ad I am referring to has the slogan "Do you want to give your business a more social side?" Then there is a montage of four pictures: a woman in a wheelchair at a desk, a boy with Down's syndrome in work clothes with earphones, a blind man with a seeing eye dog at a computer and then a smiling, able bodied black man standing amongst boxes to be loaded onto a truck. Would that image be tolerated in the US? I am going to go with no, because the connotations are just too raw and they compare race to disability. Also, of the 4 people, 2 are doing manual labor (black man and Down's syndrome boy) and the intellectual office stuff is for the white and disabled.

Now, I could not believe this sign, but as a Spanish friend pointed out "Well, the disabled people can't do the manual labor, and no one would believe a black man in a business suit here."

Unfortunately, in the Spanish job market, race is indeed a disability that at this point is nowhere near disappearing. In fact, with the growth of immigrant populations and the animosity that brings out of people, I think it is actually headed downhill.

So, are you safe in Spain? Yes, as a tourist, you are. In fact, even living here you are, but you will see blatant racism in many forms throughout the country all the time, which after a while wears on one's will.

caligirl43

Thank you to all of you who have replied to my post. My apologies to those who felt the post was inappropriate, or "Trolling". I can only assume that those who were insensitive to this post have never experienced racism. I was just curious as to the experience of others. Sure, theres racism everywhere, but I wouldn't want to spend my vacation surrounded by it. I'm really looking forward to the trip. Thanks again!

begbie

nixx... iam dismissive whatsoever ,simply not giving importance to something that should not be exagerated. i have suffered racism myself and have seen it here in spain towards groups such as the gypsies or morrocans. but some people have completely missed the point by judging a country by someone such as a football player, always well known for their intellect and highly rational statements, never getting into trouble etc. alsp its getting tiring to read about how superior americans feel about themselves with respect to therest of the world. guess thats why you'll be one of the most loved countries in the world?

begbie

that should read "not dismissive"

nixx

begbie

what makes you think im american? I most definitely am not

and neither do i judge a country based on something said by a football manager - more interesting for me was the reaction (or lack of) to his comments from the general spanish people - in general they did not seem to feel there was much wrong with his comments and he continued doing his job (he would have been sacked/resigned for less in other countries)- in my opinion this is a very good indication of where Spain is in the fight against racism

Poohgirl

Why is begbie saying pro footballers aren't very bright? I think he has a lot in common with them. Let's see. Narrow-minded - check. Sweeping statements - check. Hatred toward other groups - check. What a hypocrite.

And the way some people responded to caligirl's perfectly logical question makes me understand, as Dukey astutely pointed out, why posts are down. Hey bebgie, join the crowd who stays away. No one will miss you.

Carrybean

Gee, something must be wrong. I keep agreeing with Dukey! Well said, Dukey.

rbrazill

I usually avoid these type of attack threads like the plague. But one thing caught my eye about black footballers being treated badly by Spanish fans. I know nothing of Spanish futbol, but I sometimes follow Italian calcio. The racist chants and banners (including monkey chants, whistling when a black player touches the ball, and even swastikas) are unfortunately present there as well. I don't think anyone should judge Italy on the basis of their ultra tifosi, just as the English don't want to be judged by their own skinheads or hooligans. The real question is, is this behavior aberrational and abhorred by the rest, or is it accepted as normal?

sunstar

>>>The racist chants and banners (including monkey chants, whistling when a black player touches the ball, and even swastikas) are unfortunately present there as well<<<<<

Makes an Ole Miss fan waving a Confederate flag during an Ole Miss football seem rather tame? Yah think?