>>What do you tihnk about Arles? A must see??<<

With Aix, Avignon, Uzes, and Lyon I think you will have seen enough larger towns (I wouldn't call Lyon a town) especialy if you say the countryside interests you more.

Stu Dudley

Just returned from Provence...stayed in St. Remy...what a gorgeous little town. I definitely do not think that Arles is a must see. We went there in the morning, walked around and were bored within 2 hours. It's a lovely town, but with 2 school age children, not a lot to see and do. We liked St. Remy and Les Baux and Avignon much better.

Swissgirl - looking forward to hearing more about your recent trip to Provence. We are planning our first trip to Europe (Switzerland & France 9/07),with 5 or 6 days in Provence and it seems that St. Remy is an ideal location. Were you happy with your accommodations in St. Remy? We are looking for a room with a terrace or balcony or sitting area - some space to hang out other than sitting on the bed - within walking distance to town. Any advice would be much appreciated.

St Remy is a good home base. L'Hotel Les Ateliers de L'Image is right in the heart of town. There are rooms with a balcony and one has a sitting room built in a tree. www.hotelphoto.com

Thanks swissgirl and cigalechanta and of course Stu, llama and anselm. Any other 'must sees' or 'don't bothers'?
I have taken advice from Fodorites re Morocco who say skip Casablanca, whereas I intially thought that was a must see. We are spending more time in Marrakech and Fes (and of course travelling through the desert.
I know when we were travelling through the Bordeaux region and on up I wished we had allowed more time just to stop and wander through villages and take TIME to enjoy them instead of looking at our watches and odometer!!
Everyone has different thoughts, but it is nice to read people's suggestions and ponder......

Cindylo,
We stayed at Hotel des Mas Carassins...we loved it! We had a room on ground floor with a separate sitting area (of course, that was where our children slept). It had a massive bathroom and a lovely hedged in terrace outside. It also had large grounds with lots of tables and chairs, which is where we sat most evenings. There were lots of people who were American at this hotel and they were all very friendly. The owners were all very friendly and helpful. We ate dinner there one evening...highly recommend it. They served us a snack with aperitif, an appetizer (stuffed vegetables in a roasted pepper sauce),roast pork with a honey, goat cheese sauce, a cheese plate and 3 tiny desserts of mouthwatering chocalte...unbelievable. And they will cater to vegans or if you don't like the menu, just ask what else you can have. It is in walking distance to town, BUT there is no real sidewalk for the first half of the walk. It is not a busy road, but if you or anyone in your party has difficulty walking, you may want to drive.

We were in Provence at the beginning of October and the Fodorites feedback was fabulous. So here goes...We loved St. Remy and stayed at Chateau des Alpilles which is just outside of town. Lovely people, accomdations and food. The room cost around 220 euros for the night and it was definitely worth it. The grounds are also lovely and there's a locked parking area. Going to Les Baux was a highlight for us. The weather was perfect (for wandering) and we both love history so this place fit the bill. Arles and Avignon were a bit of a disappointment. I majored in art history in college and was really looking forward to be in the footsteps of some of my heroes...Van Gogh, Gaugin, but visiting these areas didn't satisfy my itch. Too big and not as interesting as I had hoped. We did get to the Wednesday market in St. Remy which was charming and to Joel Durand chocolate shop, Le Petit Duc bakery and the olive oil shop. All of these places were terrifc and made our stay memorable. We also went to the Luberon and the hill towns. Lovely. But watch those roads...make sure your very confident with the driving skills of your companion. Get the maps suggested by Stu and others because they're invaluable. I probably misspelled some of the items in this report, but I'm sure you get the "jist". One final thought...if you take the TGV from Avignon the rental car place is around the back. It was confusing for us, but otherwise the drop off (AutoEurope) was a breeze and the train to Paris delightful. We had such a good time, I'm going back to Paris in April. Enjoy the planning and of course the trip.

Just read the last couples of posts. Do you recommend an automatic because of the roads in the Luberon? We have always rented a nice solid Mercedes or BMW automatic until our last trip. Smaller cars are better for navigating through villages, but I don't feel as protected!! My husband feels a stick shift would be okay, but I then wondered exactly how hilly and windy the roads are in the Luberon.

Philbill we have decided to go for an automatic in Provence, it is a bit more expensive, but we feel better about it. Avis has a compact automatic (actually a liitle Mercedes) for a somewhat reasonable rate. I checked autoeurope and avis directly and, as of today, got a better rate with Avis and my company discount.

I am still considering going for the France rail and drive pass though . . . the price is really pretty good for the travel we are doing (Paris-Avignon and Avignon-Barcelona). The price for the pass is almost the same as getting PREM tickets, but we'd get 1st class, and I wouldn't have to keep watching for the PREM's to come up on the trip we want.

Philbill, if you've driven a standard in continental Europe before, there is really no compelling reason to book an automatic in the Luberon. I have never encountered a situation there where I felt I would have be better off with an automatic.

Size, as you know, is a different kettle of fish. We've rented both big and small and have been happiest with a Golf or a Mégane.

Anselm

AutoEurope has an A class automatic Mercedes which is mid-size for $578 for 7 days. Of course then there is an airport pick up fee and a road fee... I plan to check out Avis but we had a bad experience in Paris a couple of years ago. The staff at the airport refused to come and check the car as they were busy and then we later had a significant charge on our credit card as they claimed we did not return the car with a full tank of gas (not true). Avis here in the States were absolutely no help and said basically deal with Avis in France yourself...it's a different company.
We used NovaCar in Spain and they were great. We saw some people renting from Europcar who were very upset as a lot of the small basic cars do not have a spare tire...just a repair kit! Be warned! They didn't want to pay the extra for a higher grade of car but wanted the spare. I don't blame them at all, but you sometimes get what you pay for...!!!!!
I think we have decided to go with the automatic as the difference in price was minimal (not so on earlier trips).
Anselm..what do you think about the size of this Mercedes A class? I have never heard of it! salty..we may pass you by as I seem to think you are also going in May.

Philbill - Last year we booked compact cars with Auto Europe. In Ireland it was a Ford Focus hatchback provided by Budget. In France it was a Mercedes A class hatchback provided by Europcar. (The Mercedes was a pleasant surprise. We were expecting a different car.) Ours was a six-speed manual diesel and was fun to drive. Excellent gas mileage. We drove from Nice to the Luberon and then to Marseille and Toulon where we caught the night train to Paris.

Philbill, I haven't yet encountered a Benz A-Class, but I just looked up its specifications and compared them to the Renault Mégane, which I have driven in Provence. It is almost exactly the same width, which is a critical dimension as far as narrow streets go, and very slightly shorter, which will make it even easier to park. From a size point of view, it sounds like a great choice.

Will there be only two of you, plus luggage?

Anselm

Anselm and Tim: There are two of us with 2 25" cases and two carry-ons.
We are travelling light as we have one leg on Ryan Air. The web site indicates 4 people with one large and two small cases. What do you think
It seems that the Hotel du Soleil in St Remy is fully booked, so I need to find another reasonably priced place which is central.

>>had a significant charge on our credit card as they claimed we did not return the car with a full tank of gas (not true). Avis here in the States were absolutely no help and said basically deal with Avis in France yourself...it's a different company.<<

This is why we always rent through AutoEurope. I had a similar thing happen, and AutoEurope refunded the charge immediatly - didn't even have to provide proof.

I agree with Anselme that you don't need an automatic just for the winding roads - there are few (if any) in the Luberon Valley. If you head into the pre-Alps, the roads are not very winding either. If you're in the Nice Hinterland, that's different - quite winding.

Note that a diesel manual will get much better mileage than a regular gas automatic - and diesel is around $.50/gal less expensive.

Stu Dudley

Luggage space may be a problem. We had three 22" roller bags and three daypacks. Luggage space was pretty much the same in both cars we rented. We were just able to squeeze the three roller bags into the space in back by standing them upright and side by side with the narrow side in front (like CD cases in a rack). They just fit under the hatchback cover which hid them from view. We put our daypacks in the seat that would have been occupied by a fourth person, taking them with us whenever we left the car unattended.

I suggest you go to a Ford dealership and see how your bags fit in a Focus.

Since my last post I've though a little more about the luggage space layout. If you lay your 25" bags flat and stack one on top of the other, they will easily fit under the hatchback cover. And you may be able to place one carry-on bag beside the stack. If your carry-on bags are daypacks you can take with you when the car is parked, then you'll have no problem whatsoever.

Philbill,

I think we'll just miss each other. We will be there at the very beginning of May. The Mercedes A class is also what we were looking at renting, it looks like a good little car. We only travel with carry ons, so luggage space won't be a problem for us.

You mentioned that the hotel you were looking at renting in St.Remy is already booked! For May! I guess I'd better get started on my hotels!

St. Remy is lovely!!! We stayed in a villa there for a week with friends; give yourself more time there.

The allure of Provence is to not try to see everything all at once, crammed into a single vacation, but rather to savor the beauty of the small towns and beautiful country.

Find out when the markets are in each town you stay in, try to arrange your visit to experience at least one market. The abundance of Provencal specialities, such as lavender and olives, is delightful and the market atmosphere is unique. I know I'm a shopper as I've also raved on about German Christmas markets but even my husband (who is not a shopper) enjoyed the markets in St. Remy and Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, another beautiful gem a short drive from St. Remy.

We used Rick Steves' Provence book, agreed with his recommendations and didn't really like Arles, found it seedy and crowded compared to other small towns - but in all fairness, we were spoiled at that point by the solitude & peacefulness of St. Remy.

We spent a day in Cassis, rented a boat and saw the stunning calanques (cliffs) and swam in the surprisingly salty Mediterranean Sea, drove back to St. Remy through Marseilles. Lovely day...

Definitely rent a car, it's easy to drive in France - learn the road signs ahead of time (all in Rick Steves' book); AutoEurope usually has the best prices, all arrangements done ahead of time and in US currency. Go on their website, choose your car & pick up/drop off locations and then call them for a better price.

No matter where you decide to stay, one thing is for sure, you'll have some unforgettable memories and may fall in love with Provence!

Happy Halloween!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\
Off to bed..tomorrow is another Fodors' day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!