I am having a very hard time getting a grasp on Provence. I have the National Geographic Guide with lots of nice pictures and the Cadogan guide with lots of details, but I am still having a hard time putting together an itinerary.

We have 12 full days (not including the day we land and the day we fly out) between flights into Paris and out of Barcelona. We have been to Paris before, so don't plan on staying long, but would love 2 days there. We have never been to Barcelona, so would like 3 days there. The time in between (a week) is reserved for travel and Provence.

We ususally travel 100% by train while in Europe, but understand the value of a car in Provence. Car rentals, gas, tolls etc. can be tough on our relatively tight budget, so I would like to keep the car rental time to a minimum. I had thought of getting the France Rail and Drive pass which allows 2 car rental days. My idea was to split these up into two one day rentals for excursions into the countryside and base outselves in larger places where we will have a good selection of restaurants for dinner and be able to do some site seeing without a car.

I can't decide where would be the best "bases" and how many I should have. Three bases, 2 nights each? Or two bases, 3 nights each. Avignon, Arles and Aix stand out as the obvious choices as bases. But maybe we should consider somewhere else?

And I am not sure how to best use the 2 car rental days. A one day rental in Avignon and one in Aix for day trips? Or maybe link the 3 bases together with days of driving and exploring?

Any help or comments is appreciated! We will be travelling in early May. We really enjoy galleries, museums, exploring quaint towns, walking/hiking, photography/scenery and dining on the local cuisine in casual small restaurants and cafes.

What you need is the Michelin Green Guide to Provence, which has suggested itineraries--makes planning much easier. The Michelin map of Provence would also be very useful, and you can go to mappy.com and/or viamichelin.com for driving directions and advice on routes.

Saltymuffin - I definitely know how you feel! Have been reading and planning our Provence trip for months and still haven't finalized bookings yet. So unlike our many other trips to Italy, England, Scotland and Japan. Don't know why! I have checked mappy.fr for driving distances - everything seems to be close enough to each other but I guess it is the timing on seeing sights, trying to avoid backtracking, etc. that is making it more difficult to make decisions. Have finally decided to base ourselves out of St. Remy for the 'western edge' of villages/towns and Gordes for everything 'east' of St. Remy for our drive to Moustiers Ste. Marie and eventually Nice.
Good luck in your planning and I will be keeping an eye out for the responses you get!

Thanks for the comments.

Underhill, I went to the bookstore today at lunch and picked up Rick Steves Provence and Riviera book to add to my collection. It looks like it will be a help for planning. He has some suggested itineraries, and lots of transportation information. They didn't have the Michelin Green Guide to Provence, I will have to take a look online to order it.

jenniel6, I too have planned numerous trips with far less trouble than this one! It seems like so much to see in Provence is the "atmosphere" and general scenery, making it harder to pin down "must see" destinations.

saltymuffin - Since you are an experienced train traveler in Europe, I assume you know how to get discount train tickets by booking well in advance on a country's national rail site rather than through Rail Europe. While a Rail & Drive pass would be convenient, you might find it a lot cheaper to buy point-to-point tickets for train travel and rent a car separately through a consolidator like autoeurope.com. My party of three did this last year and found the car rental price to be quite reasonable when divided three ways.

Just as an example, here's what we did. (Substitute your own not-to-be-missed places.) We flew from Dublin to Nice and spent five nights there. We used the cheap and frequent train and bus service for day trips along the coast. We picked up our rental car on our last full day in Nice so we could drive to a couple of places not easily reached by public transportation. The next morning we drove all day to Joucas (near Rousillon) in the Luberon and spent three nights there. We explored the area by car each day, returning to Joucas for the night. On our last day with the car we drove to Marseille and toured the city on foot and by bus. We drove on to Toulon, turned in our car, and caught the Nice-Paris night train to Paris. We got PREM'S (discount) tickets on the train by booking online well in advance.

I was writing when your last note posted. For our planning we used the Lonely Planet guidebook and the Rick Steves guidebook. As you've already discovered, RS has some helpful suggested itineraries designed for either train or car. I suggest you buy the Michelin regional map #527 Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur to help you visualize the whole region. It's available at amazon.com.

Hi Tim, thanks for your itinerary, it always helps to see what others have done. And yes, I will be carefully comparing the price of the pass vs. an individual rental and tickets. Since I have two long train trips in France - Paris to Provence and Provence to the border on the way to Barcelona, I did think it was possible the pass MAY be the way to go - but we'll see!

Just in case others in the same situation read this in the future, I found a Frommers 1 week itinerary of Provence that can easily be adapted to a two day car rental. I don't like all aspects of it (too many one nighters etc), but it offers something to work with, and shows a possibility.

http://www.frommers.com/destinations...236020794.html

I figure one would pick up the car in Arles on the morning on Day 4 and drop it in the morning of day 6 in Aix. The rest could be done by train.

Ok,

I have a first stab at an itinerary:

tues - arrive from Paris late afternoon/early evening. Sleep Avignon

weds - Avignon. Sleep Avignon.

thurs - to Arles, stopping at Pont du Gard and Nimes along the way. Sleep Arles.

fri - Arles. Sleep Arles.

sat - Arles market in the morning. Pick up rental car at noon and drive to Roussillon, stopping in Les Baux and St.Remy along the way. Sleep Roussillon.

sun - morning head to Isle-sur-la Sorgue for market. Afternoon drive and explore - ???. Sleep Roussillon.

mon - Drive to Aix stopping ??? along the way. drop car at noon. Afternoon Aix. Sleep in Aix, OR catch train to Barcelona after dropping car.

Questions:

1. I understand that I can get from Avignon to Pont du Gard and on to Nimes by bus, then Nimes to Arles by train. Would there be somewhere to leave out bags at each place, or should we consider biting the bullet and getting a car for this day as well?

2. I would love suggestions for my driving days on sat, sun and mon. Routes to take, and how much can be seen in the time we have etc.

3. Will everything be closed in Aix on monday? Is it worth spending the afternoon and a night there? Or should we just move on to Barcelona? Is there another place that would work better for this last night? It needs to be somewhere that we can drop the car, and catch the train the next morning. Cassis perhaps?

Thanks in advance!

Just curious, as a car would be ideal for your entire time in Provence, is there not a drop charge to be factored in by picking up the car in Arles and dropping elsewhere? If so, did you consider 1)Making Avignon or Arles your base for 3 or 4 nights 2)picking up a car in Avingon or Arles 3)keeping it for three or four days to do all your wonderfull sightseeing which is all relatively close to Avignon and/or Arles 4) drop car where originally picked up avoiding a drop charge 5) take train to another town if still interested... ie Aix, or a beautiful Mediterranean town like Bandol, Cassis, Sanary and then from there continue on your journmey to Barcelona. Some of the cheapest rental rates I have found in France are with sixt rent a car. When comparing rates definitely check them as well as autoeurope.

Thanks lemidi,

With the rail/drive pass, there is no drop charge. You can pick up and drop at any Avis location in France. However, you make a good point.

I really should do some car rental research to see how the rates compare with the rail and drive pass. If I can get a good rate with sixt or auto europe, I may be able to keep the car for 3 full days and make a loop back to where I picked the car up. . .

I also noticed that the quickest train to Barcelona goes at about 3:30 in the afternoon, so I think I will definitely leave for there on the monday skipping Aix.

There usually is no drop charge when you rent a car in France and return it in France; it's when you cross national borders that the (hefty) charge kicks in.

>>sun - morning head to Isle-sur-la Sorgue for market. Afternoon drive and explore - ???. <<


Explore the villages in the Luberon - Gordes, Menerbes, Goult, Bonnieux, Lacoste, Oppede le Vieux, Saignon. Shops in Gordes & Roussillon will be open.

mon - Drive to Aix stopping ???<<

Drive over the Comb de Lourmarin & visit Lourmarin & it's chateau. Many/most shops wil be closed, but it's a cute town to wander around in. Then head to Silvacane Abbey & explore. Plan to arrive in Aix after 3:00 (see below). BTW, there are many cute villages south of the Luberon Mountains on the way to Aix - but the itinerary I suggested will consume your time till 3:00.

>>3. Will everything be closed in Aix on monday? <<

Yep - most shops will be closed on Monday morning - except for the very touristy ones on the Cours Mirabeau. Some will open in the afternoon around 3, but the ones my wife likes the most stay closed all day. This was the condition in '99 when we were there on a Monday - don't know if things have changed.

General comments...
I would try real hard to budget in a car. Save on meals, lodging, etc to find a way to find some $$$.

My wife & I have vacationed in Provence for over 16 weeks, and were going back for 4 more next year. What makes us return is the beautiful countryside & small villages - not the big cities like Avignon, Aix, etc (although we like them quite a lot, too). The lavender fields around Sault, the vineyards & perched villages in the Luberon, poppy & sunflower fields, the mountains around Sisteron & east of Sault, the Chateaux, and the restaurants in the small villages & countryside are the "stars" of Provence, IMHO. You can't get to our favorite places unless you have a car. Bus service to the villages we like the most is non-existant of infrequent enough so that it would consume a lot of your limited time just waiting for the bus.

Go to autoeurope.com to find out how much a car will cost you. Take about 10% off the rates they quote on their on-line site - they always have specials running. I booked in Feb this year and called them back twice. Both times they knocked significant amounts off my rental for 3 weeks.

Have you considered reing a Gite??? We always stay in Gites while vacationing in France. They rent from Sat to Sat, so that might not be doable for you, unless you re-arrange your schedule. We rent upper-end Gites in Provence (private pools, multiple bedrooms & bathrooms, etc), but they still rent for about 600E per week in May. You could easily find one for much less than that - around 350 to 400E per week. This would save quite a bit on your nightly stays & food costs. They are usually out in the countryside. We've stayed in ones that are 4 K from St Remy, 5 K from Gordes, walking distance to a very cute town near Vaison (we're trying to reserve this one for next year, so I won't divulge any more specifics), 45 mins from Aix in the Var near Cotignac, 20 mins from Uzes, etc.

Your first few days are loaded with larger cities that have a lot in common with each other. I would try to break these up so you don't see a lot of the same stuff back-to-back-to-back.

I have a 20+ page itinerary for Provence that I've sent to hundreds of people on this travel board. E-mail me at [email protected] if you want a copy.

Stu Dudley

Good idea. You are in an area with so much to see but it is compact enough to see it on day trips with a car and avoiding all the packing and unpacking which can spoil a trip. We did a day trip (in a car) from Toulon area. Left around 10AM and visited Avignon, St Remy, Las Baux and Arles and back to Toulon area by midnight. Of course we did not do thorough tours of any one museum/palace but we definitely got to experience and enjoy each city. Had lunch in Avignon and dinner in Arles. I am not neccessarily recommending this type of day but just letting you know it can be done.

Regarding renting a car...

Check the rates for 7 days - not 3 or 4. Often the rate for 7 is the same as for 3.

Stu Dudley

Could I just add that a Provence pickle would probably be a cornichon?

Thanks everyone!

Stu, I don't think a sat - sat Gite rental will work for us (we are working around frequent flier flights), BUT I took a look at car prices, and figure we can do a 3-4 day car rental. I am re-working the itinerary to place the car rental between city stops, to break them up as you suggest.

Thanks again - I will post the new improved itinerary when I get it worked out!

Underhill, I can't stop laughing about the cornichon. Good one.

Ok, after much struggle, I have two potential itineraries using a 4 day car rental.

The first is pretty much the same as above, but I would pick the car up thursday at about noon for the drive to Arles via Pont du Gard. Then I would drop the car at noon in Arles on monday before catching a 3:30 train to

A RT train for two from Avignon to Arles is about $40. If you rent the smallest air-conditioned car from AutoEurope for 4 days, it works out to about $46 per day - without gas. For the $6, I would want the convenience of a car. If you travel on the Peages, you'll have some tolls also in addition to gas. Try to get a diesel - which gets much better mileage than regular gas & is also less expensive per gallon. If you just stay in the St Remy, Uzes, Luberon area I'm guessing that you won't need more than $60 worth of gas - perhaps less if you just hop from city to city & don't take longer trips into the Dentelles, Sault, etc.

Stu Dudley