Yesterday I went to my bank to increase my ATM daily limit for a trip to Germany & surrounding countries. The lady told me to be careful to protect my pin #, because if it is stolen & funds are fraudently taken from my acct. the bank WILL NOT reimburse me! This was news to me! Guess I did not read the fine print. I thought I would have some protection in such a case.

I'm curious. How did they suggest you protect yourself?

Also, did you ask about "bank charges" when withdrawing YOUR money?

I just called my bank to notify them of our upcoming trip, asking them to NOT become suspecious of foreign transactions. I was told that there is a 3% fee placed on the total amount withdrawn, maximum of $510 (US) per day. That sounds high. It's been a year since we were abroad, so maybe things have changed. Just curious as to what you might have been told.

Marsh, my bank protects me if my ATM/Debit card is used in a fraudulant manner. I would talk to some other banks if I were you. You were advised that if money is stolen from your account by no fault of yours you are not protected? First of all I would talk to a supervisor or someone higher up and if that is true again I would start checking out some other banks.

How would someone know your pin number?

Remember the news stories about people using telescopes to get your pin as you type it in? That is when we learned to put our hand over the keys. sigh.

< How would someone know your pin number? >

Let me count the ways...

Aside from the obvious - looking over your shoulder, there's also having someone on a property opposite with a pair of binoculars, then there are devices you can fit over the ATM that will record your PIN (and your card details), there's the Lebanese loop & the "helpful" stranger.

Start getting the idea?

Yep, in SF several months ago the SF Chron even had photos of various ATM's around SF that had phoney devices in the ATM's that could record all of your ATM card information and your pin number when you punched it in. The crooks than make duplicate ATM cards and have a field day wiping out your account. And even many years ago (before cellphones were popular) crooks were getting calling card numbers when travellers used payphones at airports. Binoculars or someone "innocent" standing nearby.

I think the smartest thing to do is to find a bank that will give you coverage if you the customer has a fraud problem. And having a separate checking account that is just for travel is a good idea also. Espeically if one has various payments (mortgage, utilities whatever) paid automatically from their regular checking account. It would be a disaster to return home to discover those bills had not been paid as the checking account had been wiped out due to fraud.

alanRow- I'm not stupid or naive. After they get my pin using binoculars from an apartment across the street, they still need to steal my card from me, right?

If they have managed to sneak some sort of inconspicuous device into the ATM that allows them to make a duplicate of your card, they don't need to steal the card. This could be done with or without the permission of the ATM owner. If they have the two-part method in place - a way to get your PIN and a way to get the info off your card - they can be successful in getting your money.

As I pointed out there are several ways in which your card details can be extracted electronically - or you could be made to think that you've lost the card in the machine.

Also watch out for the money issuing slot being sealed up by the thieves. You wander off cursing, the thief goes to the ATM & extracts the money

In the UK, it's common to see warnings displayed on the screen about 'suspicious devices' attached to the machine. Some frauds have gone to the extent of a complete fake plastic front for the ATM, fitted over the real thing, containing card reader and camera.

Articles I have read, as mentioned before, the crooks make duplicate ATM cards and than of course use them. We even had a warning about a year ago in our small town newspaper, written by our local PD.

I was waiting in line to use a ATM in Dublin this July, and a nice Irish gentleman in front of us in the line told us to make sure that we cover the keypaid with our other hand while typing in our pin. He stated that there had been cases of someone using mirrors above the key pad to somehow get your pin. He didn't go into details but we did heed his advice.

Speaking of mirrors, there's also installing minature camera above the key pad to get the PIN, though this is generally used with a fake ATM front that records your card details

I think that is what the SF Chronical article said alanRow. I remember the article said to even be cautious when using an ATM of a bank that is outside of the bank. It was suggested when possible to use the ATM's inside of the bank.

I work for a large bank in one of it's back office functions.

In order to get into the building you need a pass.

The ATMs in the building all have a warning on them about checking for suspicious objects before using them.

In San Francisco, some ATMs are outside the bank, but behind a door. To get an access to the ATM only, you swipe your card, and it lets you in.