Proper Attire in Italian Churches
Apr 22nd, 2009, 03:52 PM
#21
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'Given that virtually none of the people visiting these churches is doing so for any religious purpose I don't really get the "lack of respect" criticisms.'
But there ARE people who visit those churches for religious/spiritual purposes - mainly locals but also some visitors. Dressing respectfully is to show consideration for their sensibilities - after all, these people are using the church for the purpose it was built in the first place, and all the art works that visitors come to see have been put there to deepen people's spirituality and as an aid to devotion - not primarily as a showcase for art.
Having a dress code for Italian churches may seem like the church authorities imposing their old-fashioned views on everyone, but I'd have thought they are also being shared by the majority of practising Catholics who worship there regularly.
But there ARE people who visit those churches for religious/spiritual purposes - mainly locals but also some visitors. Dressing respectfully is to show consideration for their sensibilities - after all, these people are using the church for the purpose it was built in the first place, and all the art works that visitors come to see have been put there to deepen people's spirituality and as an aid to devotion - not primarily as a showcase for art.
Having a dress code for Italian churches may seem like the church authorities imposing their old-fashioned views on everyone, but I'd have thought they are also being shared by the majority of practising Catholics who worship there regularly.
Apr 22nd, 2009, 08:52 PM
#23
<i>Wonder, if you want to. Just remember that they own the church, and can make the rules.</i>
That's why I like France -- "they" do not own the church. The State owns all of the churches built before 1905 and merely allow the practice of religion in them. But the religions cannot get uppity and make rules that are contrary to the values of the country.
That's why I like France -- "they" do not own the church. The State owns all of the churches built before 1905 and merely allow the practice of religion in them. But the religions cannot get uppity and make rules that are contrary to the values of the country.
Apr 22nd, 2009, 09:17 PM
#24
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I have always found that a dress with short sleeves and knees covered is so practical to wear in hot and humid weather and also is styled so that one can enter any church in Italy without a problem about uncovered shoulders and knees. Or a skirt, light weight pants or capris with a top that is not sleevless works well too. It really is not a problem.
Apr 27th, 2009, 06:47 PM
#25
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Look, even the bloody Casino in Venice has a dress code. Tie and jacket for gentlemen, and dress for ladies. And even if you are Jesus, determined to upset the tables of the money changers, you’ll still need to dress.
Wear full mess kit when dining at the Mess, don’t stand for the loyal toast if it is a Royal Navy Function. Pass the port in an anti-clockwise direction, and the ladies should retire after the sweet course is served.
When dining in Hall, academic gowns are to be worn, but not academic insignia such as velvet bonnets if one holds a Doctorate. Mortar boards should on no account be worn.
ALL institutions have their rules, which might make them seem strange. And that is what makes places interesting.
As a previous poster said, take your shoes off outside the mosque; cover your head if you are a gentleman entering a synagogue. Remember that you are visiting another country, where the culture is different – and that’s maybe that’s why you are visiting. If you wish to be seen as polite, observe the local customs.
Don’t complain of the lack of oysters in Israel, don’t be surprised that horse meat is not uncommon in Italy, and that cappuccino is not drunk after noon. Don’t demand a beer in Libya. Or do all the above, and reinforce the concept of the Ugly [insert nationality here] Tourist.
Wear full mess kit when dining at the Mess, don’t stand for the loyal toast if it is a Royal Navy Function. Pass the port in an anti-clockwise direction, and the ladies should retire after the sweet course is served.
When dining in Hall, academic gowns are to be worn, but not academic insignia such as velvet bonnets if one holds a Doctorate. Mortar boards should on no account be worn.
ALL institutions have their rules, which might make them seem strange. And that is what makes places interesting.
As a previous poster said, take your shoes off outside the mosque; cover your head if you are a gentleman entering a synagogue. Remember that you are visiting another country, where the culture is different – and that’s maybe that’s why you are visiting. If you wish to be seen as polite, observe the local customs.
Don’t complain of the lack of oysters in Israel, don’t be surprised that horse meat is not uncommon in Italy, and that cappuccino is not drunk after noon. Don’t demand a beer in Libya. Or do all the above, and reinforce the concept of the Ugly [insert nationality here] Tourist.
Apr 27th, 2009, 07:10 PM
#26
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Hey Flanneruk, we had to cover up in a monastery in Greece, large shawls were provided for the women and they had to be tied around our waists. I was wearing 3/4 length capris at the time - it was more the bare legs than arms that were a problem. So, it's not just Italy that imposes a dress code.
Apr 27th, 2009, 07:22 PM
#27
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And a couple of customs here in Australia.
If you are visiting the Outback, and talking with Aboriginals, you will find that they mostly do not make eye contact with you. We Europeans see this as a sign of insincerity; we think they are being “shifty”. Aboriginals see excessive eye contact as a mark of disrespect.
Another custom that we have that is really, really important: We drive on the left hand side of the road. Please respect this custom.
If you are visiting the Outback, and talking with Aboriginals, you will find that they mostly do not make eye contact with you. We Europeans see this as a sign of insincerity; we think they are being “shifty”. Aboriginals see excessive eye contact as a mark of disrespect.
Another custom that we have that is really, really important: We drive on the left hand side of the road. Please respect this custom.
Apr 27th, 2009, 07:29 PM
#29
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Yes Peter_S_Aus, I have heard you Aussies get quite upset at visitors driving on the "wrong side" of the road!
But back to church requirements. The Russian Orthodox church requires all females to wear a skirt. At the Russian Orthodox Cathedral in SF if a woman arrives in pants they have some skirts available for women wearing pants if they wish to enter the Cathedral. At a family wedding there one woman married into our family insisted she was going to wear a dressy pants suit "whether the church liked it or not". Guess who won that battle, lol.
But back to church requirements. The Russian Orthodox church requires all females to wear a skirt. At the Russian Orthodox Cathedral in SF if a woman arrives in pants they have some skirts available for women wearing pants if they wish to enter the Cathedral. At a family wedding there one woman married into our family insisted she was going to wear a dressy pants suit "whether the church liked it or not". Guess who won that battle, lol.
Apr 28th, 2009, 01:34 AM
#30
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I think it's a very fair question to ask and I don't like it when people respond with statements that it's only common sense, obvious, or a matter of respect. Criticising the OP for asking or coming back with a 'well duuuuh!' attitude.
I don't have a clue what is or isn't worn at all the different types of places or worship in different places of the world. I've never been to a church service in my life (bar the odd wedding and christening)So if I plan to visit one and research what is acceptable, it doesn't make me stupid. It may be obvious to some people, but it isn't obvious to others, that's why people ask these questions.
I was at a wedding once and asked to cover up my shoulders. I'd bought what I thought was a nice wedding-y outfit, knee length dress, hat, pretty summery style, but it had spagetti straps. How was I to know? After all, bodice style wedding dresses with no straps at all are very popular now, so if that's ok, why not a guest with spagetti straps? I did have a shawl with me ready for the evening so it wasn't a problem. I know it wouldn't have been an issue in a CofE church but it was in this one (pentacostal?)
The rules really vary from individual church to individual church, so it makes sense to ask. I visit a lot of churches for work and I always check up on their rules and atmosphere before I go. OK, I'm in a work suit anyway, so should fit in, but some of them require people to remove their shoes, some would look at me funny if I wore trousers, and so on.
I don't have a clue what is or isn't worn at all the different types of places or worship in different places of the world. I've never been to a church service in my life (bar the odd wedding and christening)So if I plan to visit one and research what is acceptable, it doesn't make me stupid. It may be obvious to some people, but it isn't obvious to others, that's why people ask these questions.
I was at a wedding once and asked to cover up my shoulders. I'd bought what I thought was a nice wedding-y outfit, knee length dress, hat, pretty summery style, but it had spagetti straps. How was I to know? After all, bodice style wedding dresses with no straps at all are very popular now, so if that's ok, why not a guest with spagetti straps? I did have a shawl with me ready for the evening so it wasn't a problem. I know it wouldn't have been an issue in a CofE church but it was in this one (pentacostal?)
The rules really vary from individual church to individual church, so it makes sense to ask. I visit a lot of churches for work and I always check up on their rules and atmosphere before I go. OK, I'm in a work suit anyway, so should fit in, but some of them require people to remove their shoes, some would look at me funny if I wore trousers, and so on.
Apr 28th, 2009, 03:42 PM
#31
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"I visit a lot of churches for work....some of them require people to remove their shoes, some would look at me funny if I wore trousers, and so on."
Huh??? What church requires people to remove their shoes?
I'm unfamiliar with some branches of the Church -- Antiochan Orthodox, Greek and Russian Orthodox, for example. Or the Church of Jesus Christ of the the Latter Day Saints. Or Jehovah's Witnesses -- all terra incognita to me.
But I've never heard of removing footwear in any church -- a sharp contrast, indeed, to mosques, Hindu temples and Buddhist shrines.
Huh??? What church requires people to remove their shoes?
I'm unfamiliar with some branches of the Church -- Antiochan Orthodox, Greek and Russian Orthodox, for example. Or the Church of Jesus Christ of the the Latter Day Saints. Or Jehovah's Witnesses -- all terra incognita to me.
But I've never heard of removing footwear in any church -- a sharp contrast, indeed, to mosques, Hindu temples and Buddhist shrines.
Apr 28th, 2009, 03:49 PM
#32
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in 1970, my sister was barred from 2 cathedrals in Italy.
In Venice at St. Marks, she was barred for not having her shoulders covered. Mind you, this was in July and it was hot and muggy.
So in the Vatican, she wore an outfit with sleeves. She ignored my advice to get herself lost in a bunch of nuns who were entering at the same time and was barred for having a skirt above her knee. So while I toured St. Peter's, she visited with a girl we had met the week previous in Salzburg. THat girl had also been banned - even with her skirt hem undone, her skirt was not long enough.
She had no problem in churches in Spain.
In Venice at St. Marks, she was barred for not having her shoulders covered. Mind you, this was in July and it was hot and muggy.
So in the Vatican, she wore an outfit with sleeves. She ignored my advice to get herself lost in a bunch of nuns who were entering at the same time and was barred for having a skirt above her knee. So while I toured St. Peter's, she visited with a girl we had met the week previous in Salzburg. THat girl had also been banned - even with her skirt hem undone, her skirt was not long enough.
She had no problem in churches in Spain.
Apr 28th, 2009, 03:59 PM
#33
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encarta defines "church" as:
"1. religious building: a building for public worship, especially in the Christian religion"
<i>Especially</i> but not <i>only</i>. A former colleague (a Thai woman) used to say "going to church" when she meant going to her Buddhist temple, so I suppose the term can be used loosely for a mosque too. What's the big difference. The point is that what's considered proper dress isn't always obvious.
"1. religious building: a building for public worship, especially in the Christian religion"
<i>Especially</i> but not <i>only</i>. A former colleague (a Thai woman) used to say "going to church" when she meant going to her Buddhist temple, so I suppose the term can be used loosely for a mosque too. What's the big difference. The point is that what's considered proper dress isn't always obvious.
Apr 28th, 2009, 04:54 PM
#36
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It's not about God - it's about respect for the beliefs of the religion in that culture. Some religions require men to be bareheaded and some demand that men cover their heads. Some places require you to remove shoes.
If you want to enter a house of worship just follow the rules set by the institution. If you feel that this is abrogating your rights to wear whatever you want - then just don;t go there.
If you want to enter a house of worship just follow the rules set by the institution. If you feel that this is abrogating your rights to wear whatever you want - then just don;t go there.
Apr 29th, 2009, 12:47 AM
#39
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Tedgale - yes they are Christian churches but a bit hard to explain - I couldn't really say what 'branch' of Christianity they are. Pentacostal? Not sure. They are relatively new churches and really whoever sets up the church (the pastor) gets to decide the rules. They are mainly African-run and they have a rather more old-testament attitude to religion than in the west. So in a very few, you do have to remove your shoes, and leave them in the entrance.
