It is from a fishing term when you drop your line in the water and sort of drag it along to see if anything bites. Same idea here. People throw out an idea, usually controversial or otherwise inflammatory and see who bites. As you can see from above replies, some people get really irate, some people try to be helpful. And the original troller sits back and has a laugh when they see how many "fish" they caught.

Troll or not, the information you all have shared is valuable. I'm leaving for Italy in four days (my first time) and I'm glad I was able to find some good advice on what to do (and not to do). Thanks!!!

<BR>Wow. <BR>First allow me to apologize to all of you who called me a troll. I never intended to "sit back and laugh" as someone mentioned.(Luigi...ever been to Mexico? Sims de Gonzalez is a married woman's name. They use both over here. Am I going to call you ignorant for making fun of something you have no knowledge about? After your post, I'd really like to, but I'll behave. oh, and uh, gee. that email address is real, if it "sounds" wrong to you or not.) <BR>Second, I really was trying to explain to any newbees going over to Venice that they will spend more money then they think. Obviously, I did a bad job. <BR>Third, of course I booked my hotel months in advance. I wanted a nice hotel. I wasn't worried about the price. But I was expecting what any $400 dll a night hotel would offer. I'm not going to bad mouth a hotel that I found on this forum, but it was not worth what I paid. <BR>Fourth, I'm a newbee on this forum. I thought we were supposed to share our thoughts. I never expected to be as insulted as I was by certain individuals who tore me apart, who know nothing what so ever about me but thought it was quite acceptable to write such words as "nimrod, dumb, ugly tourist, and troll". <BR>To close, some people in this world live in areas where there are no libraries, no bookstores, no way to get guidebooks by the zillions. I'm one of them. I count on this forum and other links for my info. If someone had mentioned that Venice was going to be twice as much as other major European cities, I would have been prepared. (By the way, Paulo, thank you. You gave me wonderful advice.) <BR>I loved Rome. I adored Edinburgh. England was great. But I didn't care for Venice. Does that give people the right to bad mouth me? To insult me? And if so, could someone explain to this dumb person why? <BR>For those of you who insulted me to the point of wanting to sell me beachfront property in Arizona....try thinking before you make such inflammatory remarks. All of your negative vibes helps no one, and it doesn't feel too good either. <BR>Margot

Margot - <BR> <BR>No access to libraries or bookstores? You have internet access!!! You can get TONS of travel info on the net. Also, ever hear of Amazon.com if you need books? Why don't you be honest - your bad experience with prices was due to your own incompetence. <BR> <BR>No sympathy for you.

Geez! Leave her alone already! It's unfortunate that so many people slammed this woman. Hey, try this, if you don't believe a post, just ignore it. Ok? Then you won't insult anyone and long, stupid posts like this won't exist. Please keep in mind that there will be posters who don't speak English as their 1st language, are new to the forum and/or won't use the terminology and format that is fairly standard.

Margot-I sympathise,having recently obtained many details from this Forum about my recent first time trip to Venice,I would agree with you that Venice whilst being wonderfull and unique is extortionally expensive in places and if you do not have the luxury of time to look for bargains you will pay excessively for basics such as meals and water.The best value must be the one day tourist pass on the waterbus-15000 lira for a whole day on the boats which give the best insight for someone new to the city.Expensive hotels are also a waste of money as you should be out all day savouring Venice.The fact remains however that the St Marks area is the main attraction and is as expensive an area as any in europe.I thought the abuse was unfortunate and unneccesary.The city is unique and must be seen to be believed,unfortunately so are the prices. <BR>Mike.

Concerning gondolas & their high prices, the cheapest gondola ride in town is to be found by taking a traghetto across the Grand Canal. These are gondolas which cross at 6 points along the canal. It costs a mere 700 lire (35 cents) to ride across! The Venetians prefer to cross standing up, but I was more comfortable sitting down. It's a short trip, to be sure, but what a view!!! Well worth pocket change, to be sure!

If you read this forum frequently, you will realize that most of the people are, what is called in the trade, budget travellers. They are about two steps up from back-packers.Of course they find bargains in Venice. They can't even conceive of people who don't travel the way they do or, who would not consider staying in the places they stay. Of course, they all love Venice. They've been brainwashed by the thousands of years that everyone has been told that Venice is the most unique place in the world. Do you ever hear any of them notice how filthy Venice is? How overcrowded and over-priced? I am a sophisticated traveller, old enough to have seen much of the world and if I never return to Venice it will be soon enough for me!

Sandraa (is your really spelled that way?), you're posting cannot go unanswered. <BR>1. This many come as a shock to you, but you're not the only person on this forum who is not ("as they say in trade") a budget traveller. One of the good things about this website is that it attracts a broad spectrum of travellers. <BR>2. My wife and I love Venice not because we've been brainwashed. Or are the "budget travellers" the only ones who get brainwashed? Surely, you jest. 2. I feel sorry for you if all you saw in Venice were brainwashed people, overcrowded conditions, filth and high prices. Lady, you missed a lot! <BR>3. Your alleged sophistication doesn't impress us.

I haven't been to Venice yet. My trip is not until next June, so I may change my plans somewhat, but what I am now considering is a weekly rental in Venice. I'm considering House Deal Consulting, Parker Villas, a private British party, and New Italtourist. From what I can tell from catalog and internet photos and descriptions, we can house our six comfortably for approx. 1000.00-$1400.00 a week. You do the math. You can also check the web sites out yourself. Air conditioning in some, 600-1000 sq feet, kitchen, washer/dryer, etc. So far I have only found a couple that requires less than a seven day stay. One is Venice Rentals, who charge about $250.00 a night, more than I want to pay. Anyone on a budget who is willing to give the city seven nights might consider this. We plan on eating perhaps half of our meals in the apartment, with mostly snacks, pasteries and gelato out, and certainly Paulo's wine crawl is also on the agenda. <BR> <BR>BTW, I don't think anybody here, myself included, is a budget traveller. My brother-in-law, recently retired, took a "Lonely Planet" Asia trip of five months this year, on which he claims never to have spent more than $4.00 a night for "lodging", er, make that, laying yer' head down!

I hope you all show more sensitivity and courtesy in the countries you visit than you do in this travel forum. Can't we be a little more compassionate and forgiving of each other? Isn't that what we expect of a traveller?

Margot offers her 'opinions' that Venice is a 'rip off' and 'if you order a glass of wine, be prepared for it to be watered down'. Hmmm, yet she's offended when she's lambasted for her obvious troll. <BR> <BR>When no one jumps to her defense, suddenly Margot is back defending her untenable position. Puh-leez nailed her again. Then 'anon' shows up with the 'leave her alone' - didn't see him questioning Margot's original post, or agreeing with her. I guess it's okay to insult Venetians, but not call Mexicans on it. This time, "Sondraa" shows up, and it's an attack on the people who post here; her implication is that budget travellers are somehow unsophisticated, yet Margot is the one complaining she was shocked by the prices. If you can't defend the indefensible, go on the attack. <BR> <BR>Sorry, girls, a troll is a troll is a troll.

O.K. "UGHIHATETROLLS" tell us how much travelling you've done. How many times have you visited Venice? Where do you stay? Have you ever had coffee at Florians and been charged more for the "music charge" than the coffee? Do you find the endless graffiti on every reachable surface romantic? Or are you the troll in the true fairy-tale sense of the word?

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This is to the person who signs as Puh leeze.... <BR>I just typed up a very insulting email for you then caught myself in time. The rudeness found here is contagious. Anyway, my new answer to you is this. <BR>Amazon.com is an American company. They do not send books to Mexico. <BR>You may want to check your facts before insulting someone. <BR>To ughihate.... <BR>A venetian told me about the wine. Would you like his address so that you may blast him out of the water also? <BR>Margot

Margot - <BR> <BR>You are correct that Amazon is an American Company, however, you are mistaken in your perception that they do not ship outside the U.S. From their website: "We are currently able to ship books, CDs, DVDs, VHS cassettes, music cassettes, and vinyl records to international addresses. " There are also many competitors which ship to addresses world-wide. It does seem inexcuseable not to get accurate information via web, books, or this forum, prior to taking a trip, and then complain about it afterwards.

You know I think this is all part of a giant conspiracy!!!Al la X Files. There are a couple of people who have infiltrated this message board (Sondraa and Margot Sims come to mind) who's sole purpose is to STOP other people from going to THEIR favorite destinations... Think about it, All us world travelers traumatized by the thought of budget tourists crawling all over Rome, spoiling our photos and cheapening the destination. Now here is all this terrible, shocking news about million dollar pastas in Venice.... lets all just stay home,Europe has become a horrible, overpriced, budget traveler nightmare, then Margot and Sandraa can have Europe all to themselves.........

You're right. This is new. Although waiting 12 weeks and paying customs (which is more than the book, speaking from experience when a friend sent me a book) is something to think about twice. But it's nice to know it's now available. <BR>Um, before my post, I hadn't seen anything on prices in Venice, and I am standing by my statement that it was the most expensive city I visited over there. It's the truth. If people think that is insulting, than so be it. <BR>In my two meager books, this forum and info I got from other sources, no one mentioned prices. I just thought I would let people know what I experienced. So that they would be prepared. Is this not what I was being accused of doing? Of being stupidly unprepared? <BR>Enough. I am tired of defending myself. <BR>Margot

Margot--how did your complaints actually help anyone plan a more affordable trip to Venice? For example, if we were to go by your posts, we would assume that hotels in Venice are $400 a night and not very pleasant--but you didn't even bother to tell us which hotel you had this unpleasant experience in. <BR> <BR>As for your claim that no one ever mentions the high prices of Venice and how to avoid them--um, that's just utterly false. I've seen a number of posts on this forum, for example, on which are the most affordable hotels in Venice, including detailed comparisons of charming small hotels like the Accademia and Locanda Sturion. These are places people love, and that don't cost anywhere near $400 a night. If you'd scoured the forum as you claim, surely you would have found these posts and known that you did *not* have to pay $400 a night for accommodations? I myself have posted more than once about Casa Gerotto, the place we stayed in Campo San Geremia, which cost us less than $60 per person per night <BR> <BR>And surely you would have seen such helpful posts as Paolo's, with frequent details on good and affordable restaurants in Venice? I *know* there have been posts on using the traghetto instead of gondolas if you want to save a high-priced gondola fee. All of these are available with simple searching. <BR> <BR>Sorry, Margot, you seem to want it both ways. You're not willing to invest much time (much less money on a book) investigating the city you'll be traveling in on the front end, and then you want to be able to complain afterward that no one told you how expensive it would be, and that you couldn't avoid the high prices in Venice. I don't have a lot of sympathy for you, and I hope your negative posts won't discourage people from visiting this utterly unique and wonderful city, which *can* be seen on a budget.

Margot, <BR> <BR>Let me apologize on behalf of the silent majority who think you have a right to your opinion. You are new here so you don't understand that this is a tight-knit clique. Either you are a part of the club, or you are not. You can say whatever you want on the web, very liberating. You said you didn't like Venice. (I love it and think it can be affordable). There is no excuse for the piling on that took place here. <BR>Alright, take your swings at me, folks. I've been around for a year or so and can spot the sincere posters from the phonies. I can take it.