mattocs

I will be doing a 5 week study abroad in program in Italy (Rome and Florence) which includes weekend excursions to various cities within Italy (Venice, Milan, etc.) and after that I will have 32 extra days to travel through Europe, the program begings in June 2014. I have excluded any other Italian cities because I will have seen enough of Italy by the time I am done with the program. I need help trying to decide where to go/for how long. My initial list of places I want to go is: Munich, Vienna, Budapest, Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam, Brussels, London, Paris, Madrid, and Barcelona. Doing the math that's a little under 3 days in each city, which I would distribute even more. However, I am concerned that if I did that I would not get to truly enjoy any one city and would be just scraping the surface of each but at the same time, I want to see as much as possible. That is my main dilemma. I really would like to get feedback on what everyone thinks is best and if I need to got some cities out, which would be recommended to get rid of. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

mattocs

Just read through that, sorry for the typos. I have had a very long day!

SloJan2

Munich, vienna, Prague, and Berlin are all easily accessible to each other. I would choose an area and concentrate on that. By area, I mean western Europe ie Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, Lisbon etc or Central Europe (mentioned above).

stevedatraveler

in my opinion you can skip Budapes and brussel and spend more time in Prague,Vienna and Barcelona! there much better for sightseeing

Christina

I don't think there is any one best answer, it is just individual. Some people prefer one way, some another. I prefer staying longer in fewer cities. I'd skip Brussels and Vienna in terms of places I didn't care much about, AMsterdam too, never got into it.

However, in practice, given your itinerary it would really make more sense to drop off the Spain locations, they are really going to cause you time and transportation troubles.

jent103

Agreed - traveling for a month at such a quick pace would be draining, so I think you're on the right track cutting some cities out. As Christina mentioned, Spain makes the most sense to cut geographically, but if this were my trip I'd be more interested in Barcelona and Madrid (or Seville) than Vienna and Budapest.

How *I* would plan it (which may or may not be how you would) is to fly from Rome or Florence to Seville or Madrid, work your way to Barcelona, fly to Prague (or Munich if you're very interested), go to Berlin then to Amsterdam, train to Paris and then take the Eurostar to London to fly home. That's still a quick pace if you include all eight cities, but gives you an extra day in each at least, and makes a loop so you don't backtrack too badly. My little time in Munich didn't make me all that excited about it, so I might skip that as well, but again - personal preference.

THR

Out of interest, how much of an object is money? That will help us think about travel options, paths, etc.

mattocs

As far as money is concerned I currently have $3,000 saved and will have over $5,000 by the time I go (not that I plan on spending it all). That money will not be used for the flight there or home and will be spent very minimally during the program (weekend trips included in the cost of the program along with the other basics such as lodging and most food).

I plan on lodging in very cheap hostels and in Prague I will be living with my old foreign exchange student. Now on that note, I will definitely be wanting to go and see him and I definitely want to go to Spain because I have 4 years worth of Spanish under my belt.

After reading these through once, I came up with this itinerary:

Munich - 3 days
Vienna - 3 days
Berlin - 4 days
Prague - 3 days
Amsterdam - 3 days
Paris - 4 days
Madrid - 4 days
Barcelona - 4 days
London - 4 days

However, after reading it again and considering everything, I am thinking maybe cutting out/shortening my stay in Vienna and Munich and possibly Amsterdam as well. This would allow for either more time in the remaining cities or adding an extra city in Spain. What do y'all think?

nytraveler

I don't think you have allowed time to get from one city to another. This may b ahalf day - or it may be most of day. In any case - the plan you have would give yuo 2 days in a lot of places - IMHO too little except for very small towns.

I know the temptation is to try to do everything - but that is the biggest mistake of first time travelers (as they report temselves after the trips).

Much better to pick one or two areas (central europe, germany and kos countries, etc) and see someting of them in depth rather than spend so much of yuortime and money on train fares and sitting around stations/ waiting to get places.

I have been to all of those placews and almost all deserve more time that that. I think you will need to make some hard choices - and decide what you will enjy most.

What sights MUST you see? What have yuo dreamed of? Pick 2 or 3 places and then build your time around them.

mattocs

nytraveler: I didn't directly account for travel times but I am aware that it would take away a lot of time, and yes, I am drawn to trying to see as much as possible which is why it is so hard for me. However I would like to defend myself and say I am no first time traveler, I spent a month on the eastern coast of Australia, two weeks in Costa Rica, three weeks in Southern Africa (South Africa, Zimbabwe and Botswana) and many many trips to the Caribbean. But this is my first time to Europe, planning a trip on my own, and traveling alone so I guess it evens out

mattocs

Oh and what I have dreamed of is taking 6 months to a year off from everything and traveling around Europe going wherever I want, whenever I want...but I don't see that being a possibility.

PalenQ

ttt

jent103

My free travel after my semester abroad was more rushed than that and I survived. Even had a good time. Given your interest in Spanish culture, I do agree with cutting another city (or more) and visiting Andalucia, for example. (And you might think about reallocating a bit - I haven't been to Barcelona, but my impression from reading trip reports here is that Paris and London deserve a bit more time than Barcelona and Madrid, just for sheer number of things to see.)

mattocs

jent103 would you mind sharing where you went and for how long? I would love to get an idea of what other people have done that is comparable. Thanks!

jent103

Sure. This was in December 1999 when I was 19. There are MANY things I'd do differently, and not all of it will apply to you since you will have been in Italy already. I was studying in London, we'd already been to Paris during the semester, and I had gone to Seville (and Madrid, briefly) during our Thanksgiving break, but that was all of Europe I'd seen.

We spent relatively a lot of time in Germany, mainly because we had people to stay with near Heidelberg and we were poor college students!

- Eurostar to Brussels and train to Cologne from there (no overnight in Brussels, just the train station)
- Two nights in Cologne (saw the Dom and the Christmas market)
- Train to Heidelberg area, stayed with friends; spent one full day in Heidelberg and one full day with friends (three nights)
- Train to Munich, stayed overnight; unfortunately we stayed on a Sunday and therefore weren't able to go to Dachau (closed on Mondays, at least at that time); we mainly just wandered around the big plaza I'm forgetting the name of before our train the next morning
- Train to Lucerne via Zurich. Lucerne was on the recommendation of a friend. Three nights there.
- Overnight train to Florence, arriving in the early morning. That day + one more full day in Florence (half-day trip to Pisa the second day).
- Train to Rome. Only a day and a half in Rome before flying home the next morning. We made the most of it, but it was way too little time!

We allocated things poorly, I think. Cologne was only on the list because it was en route to the friends. Without the constraint of their schedules, I would have skipped Cologne, maybe flown to Berlin from London, swapped Interlaken for Lucerne (I really wanted to see Switzerland, but Lucerne was pretty dead at that time of year), and spent more time in Italy, especially Rome.

If I were planning the same trip now (having already been to Seville), and weren't tied to a Eurail pass, I might have flown from London to Barcelona and then spent the rest of the time in Italy. But then, I hate cold, which may be one reason I was not a huge fan of Germany!

mattocs

Okay well I have narrowed things down even more and here is what I have now (not necessarily in order):

Berlin-5days
Prague-4days
Amsterdam-3days
Paris-5days
Madrid-5days
Barcelona-5days
London-5days

It still could use some work, I am sure. The only city I am not set on HAVING to go to is Amsterdam but I was recommended to go by friends and there are a few things there I would like to see/do but not the most important. I don't know if I should keep it, or just get rid of it to go to other places more. The only things I REALLY want to do there are the Anne Frank House, Heineken Experience and the Van Gogh Museum. So maybe three days could be cut back and spent elsewhere?

jent103

If you subtract half a day from each for travel between cities, it's still a decent amount in each. You could easily fill more time in places like Paris and London, but with this sort of trip you're striking a balance, and 4-5 days will still let you see a lot there.

It does seem like you have a lot of time in Madrid and Barcelona (maybe Berlin too?), based on what I've read. You might check out some trip reports here (marked with the yellow books - you can use the search box up top) and see how long other people spent in those cities to compare it to what you want to do.

One thought - these are all big cities. Do you have any desire to incorporate some time in smaller towns or countryside?

mattocs

If I went to any small towns/country side I would probably consider doing it in Spain. So maybe take some time off from Madrid and Barcelona and go to a small town between the two.

I have allocated a lot of time to Berlin for two reasons 1) I was considering doing an entire semester abroad there (the program I will be doing now is more productive and serves a purpose other than just being somewhere foreign) and 2) my friend from Prague will be going with me to Berlin.

Thanks for the tip on reading the trip reports, I am about to do that now!

PalenQ

After reading these through once, I came up with this itinerary:

Munich - 3 days
Vienna - 3 days
Berlin - 4 days
Prague - 3 days
Amsterdam - 3 days
Paris - 4 days
Madrid - 4 days
Barcelona - 4 days
London - 4 days

Berlin-5days
Prague-4days
Amsterdam-3days
Paris-5days
Madrid-5days
Barcelona-5days
London-5daysn the remaining cities or adding an extra city in Spain. What do y'all think?

I liked you first redo better than the 2nd - leaving Vienna and Munich in - 4r days IMO is about too much for the average tourist who wants to see as much as possible without being rushed - 4 days lets you see any city thoroughly. But 5 could be so if you want to do say day trips from cities - 5 days in Madrid or Barcelona themselves would bore many folks but using them as a base to do great day trips from - like to fantastic Toledo from Madrid (Or Avila, Salamanca, Segovia, etc) or from Barcelona the great day trip to Montserrat - one of Europe's most famous pilgrimage sites, awesomely set high up on a mountain peak about an hour from Barcelona by train.

Prague to either Vienna or Munich is easy - direct buses to Munich and from Munich you could take an overnight train to Paris and after Paris another overnight train to Spain - saving time and money on a night in a hotel.

For lots of great info on European trains check out these IMO fantastic sites - www.seat6.com; www.budgeteuro0petravel.com or www.ricksteves.com.

with that much travel check out some kind of Eurailpass - if under 26 the bargain Eurail Youthpass still in most countries lets you hop on any train anytime - chose your trains as you go along not book something in concrete weeks in advance that cannot be changed nor refunded.

mattocs

Thank you PalenQ, it's good to hear a different opinion. Although, now I do have a lot of thinking to do!

To everyone: What would be the best book to look at in terms of Europe as a whole and advice for planning/pretravel along with what to do while there?