cbr

My friend and I are travelling to Portugal for a Girls trip next September. Our time is limited- 6 days, 5 nights so we want to make the most of our visit. We fly in and out of Lisbon by the way. What are the musts that we can not miss. Will it be possible to visit cities nearby for day trips? I had hoped to visit Porto, could that be included? Also can anyone recommend a private guide? We have used them in other countries and always found using guides to be a wonderful way to enhance our vacations. I have read about hotel and apartment suggestions,but has anyone stayed at a B&B there seem to be a few in Lisbon? I would prefer someplace central, but not on a tourist street, whether it is a hotel, apartment or B&B.
I have always gotten excellent suggestions from my fellow Fodorites so looking forward to your replies.
Thank you

PalenQ

Porto is only a few hours by train and IMO is a far more romantic old-world city than Lisbon - Lisbon is nice but unfortunately they have not been the best at preserving old parts of town other than the Alfama.

Sintra is an easy day trip from Lison - an hour or less by train - two famous castles in this old royal town - a nice nice town.

Obidos is one of Europe's finest completely walled medieval-looking towns - again not far from Lisbon by train or bus or car.

Evora to the south is another famous old city that could be a day trip - it is in the cork growing region of Portugal.

Lisbon_Eagle

Most tourists will visit the usual, the Castle, Alfama, downtown, Bairro Alto, and take a trip on the tram 28 and they leave Lisbon thinking the city is only that lol

You could also visit the monuments in Belém and the most recent parish of Lisbon, the Parque das Nações, the Gulbenkian Museum, maybe some botanical gardens or other museums too? Depends on your tastes.

You could spend one full day with a trip to Sintra and Mafra. Sintra's Natural Park is beautiful.

Elsewhere with the typical temperatures in September you also have many beaches nearby Lisbon, who knows...

Visiting Porto while staying in Lisbon is not very wise as a day trip, unless you take a plane (that's more than 600km back and forth)...

Lisbon_Eagle

"Lisbon is nice but unfortunately they have not been the best at preserving old parts of town other than the Alfama"

There are not old parts of town other than Alfama.

Like i said in another topic, most of today's Lisbon is under 100 years.

The great thing about Lisbon is that there are also many sections of the city from different time periods.

The area Alfama-Castle is the oldest permanent settlement of Lisbon but there aren't any other "old sections": because of natural disasters and different human occupations, the old and new Lisbon is spread all over the city.

PalenQ

Belem is a must - and walk along the Tagus on a broad walkway is great - Belem for sure!

https://www.google.com/search?q=bele...=1600&bih=1074

On a nice day bring a picnic - trams go there from the city center or it's a few mile stroll - lovely stroll.

PalenQ

I enjoyed the Cabo da roca, not far from Lisbon and the westernmost piece of the European continent - I took a bus one day to Sintra then another bus to the Cabo - a rocky spit of land jutting out in the ocean - waves lapping all around - wonderful site - then took a bus to Cascais, another famous place near Lisbon - former watering place of rich and royals.

You do not need a car to day trip from Lisbon.

A neat thing when going from Sintra to the Cabo was the bus went thru miles of eucalyptus trees and the fragrance wafted into the bus!

From Cascais trains take you back to Lisbon, via Belem.


https://www.google.com/search?q=port...=1600&bih=1074

thursdaysd

" unfortunately they have not been the best at preserving old parts of town other than the Alfama"

Yes, they should have prevented that earthquake and fire in 1755.

Five nights is really four days rather than six, especially if you arrive with jet lag. It would be easy to spend all of them in Lisbon, including side trips to Belem (you must see the Mosteiro dos Jerónimos) and Sintra/Cascais/Estoril. If you really need more time outside Lisbon Obidos should be easy enough, or you might manage Evora, although that would be better as an overnight. Porto is at least two and a half hours by train.

For suggestions on how to fill six days, see my TR: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ing-lisbon.cfm

cbr

Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions. Has anyone used a private guide in Portugal?

PalenQ

Yes, they should have prevented that earthquake and fire in 1755.>

naw that is not the only cause because things that replaced the earthquake damage would still be old.

I stayed in an old part of Lisbon in the early 80s and when I returned several years later it had been bulldozed not restored as it could have been - right down in the town center between Alfama and the Baixa and this is one thing I based my comment on.

Lisbon's modernity has nothing to do with the 1755 earthquake - most towns in Europe were built after that and have retained those centuries-old areas but not Lisbon - fine I have no problem with that but the Lisbon of today is mnot as quaint as the one I first visited in 1969. Earthquake of 1755.....

ulysses79

With just 5 nights, you could very well stick to just Lisbon and Sintra (this is a must-do day trip), but in September it will still be summer so you may also want to spend a day in Cascais/Estoril by the sea.
Cascais: http://www.golisbon.com/portugal/cities/cascais.html
Estoril: http://www.golisbon.com/portugal/cities/estoril.html
Sintra: http://www.golisbon.com/portugal/cities/sintra.html

Yes, it is possible to go to Porto from Lisbon. It's about 2 hours and 45 minutes away by train, so it's better to stay overnight and then return to Lisbon. This information may be helpful: http://www.lisbonlux.com/magazine/fr...reasons-to-go/

In order to make the best of Lisbon and plan your sightseeing days, you may want to consider this itinerary: http://www.lisbonlux.com/lisbon/itinerary.html

Lisbon_Eagle

"Lisbon's modernity has nothing to do with the 1755 earthquake - most towns in Europe were built after that and have retained those centuries-old areas but not Lisbon - fine I have no problem with that but the Lisbon of today is mnot as quaint as the one I first visited in 1969. Earthquake of 1755....."

@PalenQ - You don't understand Lisbon at all. What you have written is ridiculous and you based your comment in a tiny section of Lisbon.

What you said is nonsense. You sound like Lisbon destroyed almost every old building.

There are some sections of Lisbon that resisted the earthquake that i'm sure you never visited. So you have old sections of the city connected with new sections.

Despite everything the city suffered, what you have in Lisbon is probably not to be found in so many places in the world.

There are many cities combined inside the present-day Lisbon.

* Archeological evidences of permanent pre-Roman human presence with more than 800 years. Yes, you can visit them. You can also visit pre-permanent era findings in some museums too.
* Archeological evidences of the Roman Lisbon underneath the city. Roman heritage can also be visit in some museums.
* The Islamic heritage in the urban network, toponomy and cultural life of the city
* The XII century Christian presence in Sé as well as the oldest parishes, and also the everlasting presence of St. Vincent and St. Anthony
* The XIV century Lisbon presence in gothic ruins and Epigraphic inscriptions in stones.
* The Discoveries: Some monumental areas can still be visited (and Belém is not the only one)
* XVII century: Still visible in small chapels, churches and residential buildings
* XVIII century: The impressive Pombaline downtown. The even more impressive Aqueduct. Churches, palaces and Theaters.
* XIX century: Avenida da Liberdade. Many residential buildings. And Fado, of course.
* XX century: Now, more than half of Lisbon present buildings are from the last 90 years. Brand new areas near old areas. The Zoo. The Parque das Nações. And so on.

Buildings and "old-parts" of cities are important, but every city is different.

Just in the area downtown-Alfama-Castle there are many Lisbons: the pre-roman, the roman, the islamic, the medieval, the gothic and the modern, all in the same place.

This is a multiple times reconstructed city. That is the very essence of Lisbon.

thursdaysd

"Most towns in Europe were built after [1755]"

I think you're confusing Europe and America.

ulysses79

thursdaysd, the Paris we know, with its grand boulevards, that's the majority of the center of the city, is from the late 1800s, with Haussmann's reconstruction. Most of Barcelona is also from the 1800s, under Ildefons Cerdà's plan. Almost all of Madrid is from the late 1800s, with its famous Gran Via only created in the early 1900s. Almost all of Athens, with the exception of the Plaka neighborhood by the Acropolis, is from the 20th century. The oldest part of London is now where you find its most modern skyscrapers...

So it is true that most major cities in Europe were (re)built after 1755. Lisbon is therefore one of the few capitals (along with Prague and very few others) with a large part predating that. It's true that Lisbon's essence is "time traveling" through its diverse neighborhoods. In Alfama it's a trip back to a medieval village (this is the second-oldest neighborhood in Europe after the old center of Cadiz), downtown is all late 1700s, Bairro Alto is celebrating 500 years this December and still looks like it did back then, Chiado blends 1700s and Belle Epoque, Belem is a mix of 1500s and 1700s, the Avenidas Novas which only have one major tourist attraction (the Gulbenkian Museum) is all 20th century, and the Parque das Nações is from the 1990s to the present...

PalenQ

"Most towns in Europe were built after [1755]"

I think you're confusing Europe and America.>

yes rebuilt like ulysees says. What parts of London date from 1755?

Much of Amsterdam was built within the last 150 years

practically any big city is the same or they'd all look like the Marais in Paris - about the only pat Hausmann did not bulldoze -

Well I base my Lisbon comments on what I saw there in 1969 and what I see recently. I did not mean to apply Lisbon torn everything down but I have traipsed around every part of Lisbon as an inveterate walker - there are many amazing areas each with distinction that help makes Lisbon a visual delight and offering a different surprise at every turn of the street.

thursdaysd

Of course all big European cities, and small ones too, have changed since 1755, between disasters (do we count Hausmann as a disaster?) and sometimes massive population growth it would be surprising if they hadn't. That doesn't mean you can't find original street plans, old areas, and old buildings, if you look. One of the delights of London is coming round a corner or ducking down an alley and finding an old building tucked in next to a new(er) one. The point is that in the vast majority of US cities there's nothing old to find. (1755? Washington D.C. wasn't founded until 1790.)

As for what parts of London are pre-1755, pick up a good guidebook, you don't really want me to write one here, do you? If so, I could start with the remains of the Roman walls, progress through the pre-Norman abbey and the Norman fortress, hit up some medieval churches (eight in the City), guild and banqueting halls, the Inns of Court, wander through Covent Garden and Soho....

And it's not just the capital cities. In England alone, you'll find pre-1755 buildings in Cambridge, York, Chester, Salisbury, Oxford, Exeter, Gloucester, Shrewsbury, etc. etc., not to mention areas like the Cotswolds.

PalenQ

Believe me as an inveterate walker and having visited London for years and weeks on a time I know there are some isolated medieval areas but overall London is a Victoria-Georgian creation - the big boom coming in late 1800s has resulted in one of the least 'old' cities in Europe IMO - Italian towns are about the only ones I've seen that seem ancient.

anyway this is academic in what constitutes what a medieval area is - one or two isolated buildings surrounded by modern stuff - to me like the Marais in Paris - a whole area of tiney lanes - like you find in Cordoba and Seville and in the Alfama in Lisbon but I have found that nowhere else in Lisbon and now reflecting on Lisbon Eagles' comment I should have limnited my bulldozing remarks to the ravine area of Lisbon between the two hills that in 1980 or so was if I recollect right a warren of old lanes but when I went back years later had been demolished - Lisbon is a great great unique city so I do not want to portray any negative things - just sad that they did not restore instead of tear down what is I believe the historic commercial center.

Sal9001

We visited Portugal last year for the first time. We spent four nights in Lisbon and three in Porto. We found that 3 nights in Porto was about right. We enjoyed it but it is not high on our list of returns.

This year we spent six night in Lisbon and could actually have stayed longer. Lisbon is a beautiful city with outstanding architecture and great museums (if you don't enjoy museums and architecture six nights may be too much). We stayed at the Avenida Palace because first its location is superb and second because it is a really nice hotel with great service.

Must sees.

Gulbenkian Museum (skip the modern arts and only visit the main museum unless you really appreciate modern art)

Belem Mosteiro dos Jeronimos
Museu dos Coches (highly recommended)

Sintra Pena Palace and Quinta da Regaliera (this will take a whole day)

Castello Sao Jorge

Museu de Ajulejos (tile museum and attached church Igreja de Madre de Deus)

The Se don't miss the cloister

The Alfama area makes for an entertaining day if your legs are up to it. Museu des Artes Decorativas is a nice visit to an older home.

The only place we found to eat that we really, really liked is pizzeria across from Santa Apolonia station - Casanova - great Italian food. One place we liked but found horribly overpriced was Farta Brutos in Chiado. Really nice atmosphere and helpful staff, food only okay and check your bill before paying.

We never use guides so can't help there.

PalenQ

don't miss taking the antique trams up and down the hills on twisting streets - one of the most pleasant things to do - get off somewhere and walk around... don't miss the ancient trams - quaint for sure!

cbr

Once again great suggestions. Sounds like we need to concentrate our limited time around the Lisbon area and save the North for last. We definitely want time to enjoy what we see and just wandering around neighborhoods is always fun. A day trip to Sintra/Cascais is on our list as well. One last question as a vegetarian will I have a lot of problems? My friend is not so that is not an issue. I would love a place that serves a full breakfast if anyone has a good recommendation. I will look into the Avenida Palace as well.

Lisbon_Eagle

Here's some vegetarian restaurants in Lisbon:

* Close to the Avenida metro station:

- Jardim dos Sentidos, walk south of the Avenue, take the Travessa do Salitre to the right (west) side and Praça da Alegria near the Garden of the same name(also named Alfredo Keil Garden). Walk a little and you there.

- Os Tibetanos, west side of the metro station, take the Rua do Salitre, walk a little and you there.

- Terra Restaurant, at Rua da Palmeira, this one is to the southwest of the first one, after the Principe Real Square.

* Close to the Baixa\Chiado metro station:

- Jardim das Cerejas, take the Calçada Sacramento, northwest of the station and you there.