MRS

Please help with our trip to France at the end of June/beginning of July.
Nine years ago we spend a week in Paris, and a week in Nice, taking trains and buses between Cannes and Monaco.
This time we would like to see places we had not seen before and our schedule so far looks as follows:
Flying to Paris, renting a car and driving Loire Valley region, we have a reservation for Chateau Des Ormeaux for 4 nights.
After that we are planning to drive to Saumur, on our way visiting Tours, Chinon and Anger, and stay there for 3 nights.
From there we would drive to Provence, where we rented a gite for 7 days close to Maubec.
We where thinking to end our trip somewhere on French Rivera and fly home from Nice( not staying in Nice), may be closer to St. Tropez.
Ok, that was the plan, but reading and talking made me eager to ask questions.
Do we have enough time to go from Loire Valle, skipping three days in Saumur, to Dordogne area, someone made a suggestion for Toulouse, and I was told Carcassonne is incredible at that time of the year. We are ok to drive (my husband says!).
I would appreciate suggestions and critique.
I remember reading Stu Dudley is going to be in the Western Loire Valley area the same time we are planning to go, may be we are making a mistake and trying to do too much?

Thank you,
MRS

StuDudley

From Tours to Sarlat, it's a 4 1/2 hr (mostly ugly freeway) drive - which will kill much of one of your 3 days. Normal Gite check-in time is 4pm, and it's 5 1/2 hrs from Sarlat to Maubec. This means you'll have to leave the Sarlat area at 10:30 at the latest - with no time at all to see Carcassonne along the way (much less Toulouse). That gives you slightly more than 2 days in the Dordogne. Both the drive from the Loire to the Dordogne and the drive from the Dordogne to Provence is quite boring and tedious. I would save the Dordogne for another trip. Like Provence, it really deserves a full week.

How much do you love chateaux??? We're big chateaux fans, but some people tire after about 6-8. Perhaps a week in the Loire might be too long. The drive from the Loire to Provence takes you through the Puy du Dome dept in the Auvergne (Clermont-Ferrand) - which would be perfect for a 2-3 nighter. Very different scenery than either Provence or the Loire.

The drive from Saumur to Maubec is round 7 1/2 hrs - all unsightly freeway (we've driven most of it). HOWEVER, assuming you've rented the Gite from a Sat to Sat, July 4 or July 11 may have some horrible traffic jams on the north to south freeways. We actually drove south to north on Sat July 1 in '06 and there were horrible back-ups (10 miles long) at at least two toll booths. I would advise you to get close to Provence on Friday night. Perhaps stay 2 nights in the Puy du Dome, and then one night in Provence in an area that's a little far away from the Luberon - Uzes would be nice. From Uzes you could visit the fabulous market on Saturday, then the Pont du Gard, then mosey over to the Luberon without getting on any freeways on a Sat.

If you are interested on the Puy du Dome area, we stayed in a gite there for 2 weeks in '06, & I have a short write-up that I think I could find in my archives.

Stu Dudley

StCirq

No, I wouldn't do that. It's hardly worth it for two days in the Dordogne. Go when you can spend an absolute minimum of a week.

And I'd skip Tours and go to other Loire locations instead: Blois, Amboise, the troglodyte caves, and so forth.

If it were my trip, I'd also catch a train to Provence after visiting the Loire and rent another car there (but maybe that's because I'm really tired of that drive).

MRS

Stu and StCirq,

Thank you for your replies, as always it is exactly what I was looking for (sometimes I dream too much).

Stu,
A friend of mine gave me your Provence itinerary and I am using it in combination with hers to plan out trip. She did a trip few years ago to Paris, St.Tropez and Provence and still exited about it. I don’t know how much we love chateaux, I never been to 6-8 in 4 days, but I DO love them, probably it’s time test my love.
We followed your advice on Tuscany, stayed in Pienza for a week. Honestly, I was sorry to leave for Sorrento, me, who loves water MUCH MORE than anything. I would go to Pienza in a heartbeat, the view from the city walls is wallpaper on my computer, and every day when I come to work, I say “Good Morning, Pienza”. My co-worker asked for it, at loves it too. Last year we traveled to Zurich, Lucerne, Lautenbrunnen, Montreux, Streza and Bellagio. What a trip! We are not scared to drive Europe anymore. On Lake Geneva, on the French side we visited a little village of Yvoire, incredible place. When I came back, we where looking for a picture for a new wall-paper, and left Pienza untouched, everyone in office was of the same opinion – as I said, I dream too much.

We are renting in Provence 6/27-7/4 at Domaine Faverot, and we are near Amboise in Loire. The plan is:
day1 - visit CHARTRES on the way from Paris, to Amboise.
day 2- Amboise: Castle, Sunday Market,Clos Luce.
day 3 - CHENONCEAU and CHAUMONT
day 4- BLOIS, CHAMBORD & CHEVERNY
day 5 - time to go somewhere, may be "Puy du Dome dept in the Auvergne"...

Clermont-Ferrand – how different is it? In what sense?
I will read on it tonight, my geography teacher (whereever she is) very proud of me.

Everyone, thank you very much for your advises over the years, I will be back with more questions.

Back to my homework,
MRS

StuDudley

We stayed in Yvoire last year - and loved it.

Don't miss the gardens in Villandry !!!

The city of Clermont-Ferrand is of little interest, but the region just west & south is valcano country, and very scenic.


Here is something I posted on a previous thread .

Here are some thoughts on the Puy de Dome.

In July ’06, we rented a Gite near Olby & spent two weeks exploring the area. In this region, the natural beauty is the main attraction. Compared to the villages & cities you’ve already visited in the Dordogne & Languedoc, the ones in the Puy de Dome are really not that interesting. Like I mentioned earlier, I would skip Cleremont-Ferrand entirely. Only old Montferrand was mildly worthwhile – but still nothing like Bordeaux, Perigueux, Sarlat, Toulouse, Albi, Pezanes, Bourges, or Troyes. When we were there, we visited about 15 chateaux. Here is their web site:

http://www.route-chateaux-auvergne.o...ex_anglais.htm


The Michelin Green Guide has many driving itineraries. Here are the sections we enjoyed the most
1. The D216/D27/D983 from the N89/E70/D941 intersection, past Orcival, all the way to le Mont Dore
2. The D983 from the above mentioned D216 to the N89.
3. The D922 from Tauves to Lagueuille
4. The small D640 from the D996, to the D150 to St Nectaire. This affords wonderful views of both St Nectaire & the distant ruins of Murol chateau.
5. The D36 from Besse en Chandesse to le Mont Dore.

Here are some of our favorite villages
1 Lavaudieu
2 Besse en Chandesse – probably the most interesting of the villages
3 Montpeyroux – this is an interesting village to explore. It’s right next to the freeway with a great view of it from the freeway
4 Brioude – interesting church also.
5 Blessle
6 Champeix
7 Billom – take the Michelin walk. Excellent Monday morning market. Nice store called Maison de Campagne on Rue Carnot

Some of our favorite sites
1 the Church at Orcival
2 Murol – it’s in ruins, but quite interesting.

The views from the top of the Puy de Dome are fantastic. We had dinner at the restaurant on top one evening, and watched a thunderstorm pass. If you get a chance, have dinner up at the top of the Puy. I’m a big foodie, and I expected the restaurant to be a little touristy – but it wasn’t. In fact, it was one of our 4 best meals in the region.

The other 3 best meals were l’Ours des Roches in Courteix near Pontgibaud, Radio in Chamaliers, & La Belle Meuniere in Royat.

Here are some drives/sites/villages we did not find as interesting as the Michelin Green Guide suggests
1. Gorges d’Aveze – especially if you visit the Gorges du Tarn.
2. The countryside east of the A75 freeway
3. Col de Ceyssat (too many tree trunks)
4. The Funiculaire du Capucin ride from Mt Dore. It was OK, but a little too time consuming


If I were to stay in one town, I would choose Besse en Chandesse. There are several Michelin listed hotels in town. Another option would be Mont Dore, but it’s a thermal/spa town and geared to that crowd. It’s somewhat interesting to visit, but I would not want to stay there. It seemed a little too “fake” to me. La Bourboule would be another choice, but it looked a little tattered & worn. Perhaps it was a more elegant town 100 years ago.

Here’s a nice itinerary to get to the Puy de Dome from le Puy en Velay.

Head northwest on the N102. Just past a large loop in the road, turn right on the D513 to Chavaniac Lafayette. The chateau there is the birthplace of the Marquis de La Fayette – who helped us in our war of independence. If you have time and the inclination, visit the chateau and the exhibits about the Marquis. It’s a self guided tour, and one of the few that’s open in May. It closes for lunch. I’m pretty sure they have a handout in English. After the chateau, head northwest on the small D21, through Paulhaguet, then on the D56 to Lavaudieu. Get out and explore this village – there’s a picture of it in the Michelin Guide. Continue on the D203/D20 to Brioude. This is kind of a perched town. You will first encounter a large parking lot. Park there & take the elevator up into town. We found the church there to be very interesting and a walk through town worthwhile also. See the Michelin Guide for suggested sites to visit in town.

After Brioude, gage the time, and perhaps visit Blesle if you have time & are not “villaged-out”. I would perhaps skip Blesle, and from Brioude, take the D5888 west and get on the freeway towards Cleremont Ferrand. Almost immediately, get off at exit # 17 and drive through St Germain-Lembron, head north a bit and turn left (west) on the small D125 to Chalus (note the chateau to your right), Villeneuve-Lembron (chateau not open in May), and then to Mareugheol, which is an interesting village. After Mareughol, head southwest on the D717, and then catch the D48 west and then the D32 northeast towards Vodable, then the D124/D23 north. At the larger D26 road at Chidrac, head west Besse en Chandesse – noting the interesting St Floret along the way. Most of the route I just described from St Germain to the D26 can be found in the Michelin Green Guide under “Issoire” It’s probably easier to follow the Green Guide’s description than mine.

For the next day explore the Puy de Dome, following the roads I mentioned above and visiting any sites that interest you. Just driving aimlessly in this region is rewarding.

When it’s time to leave the Puy de Dome for Bourges, get on the A75 freeway, but get off at exit #7 to visit Montpeyroux. My guess is that this charming village is inhabited by wealthy people working in Cleremont Ferrand, since freeway access is so easy. Wander around, and climb up the tower for some great views over the village & down into the back yards & gardens of the houses.

You will need map # 326 to explore the Puy de Dome. If you get an older map, it might not show that the A89 freeway has been extended all the way to the A71 freeway north of Cleremont Ferrand.

Stu Dudley

MRS

Stu,

Thank you for a very detailed description of Puy de Dome. I will call Chateau Des Ormeaux in Loire Valley and ask them if we can add another night (5 total) to have enough time to visit Villandry. As you mentioned 2 nights are ok for Puy de Dome , I love an idea of avoiding traffic and getting closer to Maubec.

Thanks,
MRS

MRS

Hi Stu,

We read you recommendations yesterday and still not sure what we want to do. We definitely do not want to miss Vallandry, and we prefer to have as little hotel changes as we possible can. Our hotel in Loire does not have another night for us to add, and our plan was after East Loire to drive to West, as follows:
6/24: Wednesday moving to Saumur: TOURS, AZAY LE RIDEAU may be VILLANDRY is a separate day or may be on this day Vallandry only.
6/25 - Thursday SAUMUR. CHINON, may be PLOUZEAU WINERY, ROCHEMENIER, Abbey of FONTEVRAUD, Chateau d'USSE.
6/26 – Friday ANGERS, ANGERS CHATEAU,
THE DAVID d'ANGER SCULPTURE GALLERY
6/27 – I know it’ll be difficult- drive to Provence.
We probably will stick with this plan (I will look for a location in Saumur), may be you have an advise on improving it.
Hope it is not our last trip to France, and next time we will do Dordogne and Provence again. I did not include markets, I love them, but for now I am concentrating on logging:
first to know where we are going, second - most convenient location for day tripping, then if there are more interesting things to do in the area – even better.

Thanks,
MRS

StuDudley

Like I stated in my first post, the drive from Saumur to Maubec is 7 1/2 hrs without food, gas, or pottie stops. With these stops, it's probably 8 1/2 hrs. Since it's also on a Saturday approachng prime-vacation time in France, and since you'll be on a north to south route much of the way, I would add another hour - making it 9 1/2 hrs.

All 40 or so different gites we've stayed in, want guests to arrive at 4 PM and not much later. That means you'll have to be on the road from Saumur at 6:30am with a solid day of stressful driving - much of it with the sun directly in your face.

IMO, 7 nights in the Loire is a tad too long. If you spend 3 nights in the Puy du Dome instead of 3 nights in Saumur - isn't that the same number of hotel changes?

In June, the Loire & Provence will be loaded with tourists - especially Americans. In the Puy du Dome - there will be fewer of each. Don't know if that's a plus or minus for you.

I think you can deduce what my suggestion would be!!

You probably won't enjoy the Puy du Dome as much as Provence, but you may like it more than the Loire.

Stu Dudley

MRS

Stu,

I hear you, fully understand and appreciate you suggestion. Definitely, “7 1/2 hrs without food, gas, or pottie stops” not my kind of vacation. Change is coming!

Thanks,
MRS

MRS

Stu,

After looking in complete disbelieve at the screen for 2 hours, I thankfully agree with you. I will find time to see Vallandry in four days we will be in Loire, we have to go to Auvergne for the three nights we have. It’s so unbelievably beautiful! I was trying to find accommodations around Monts Dômes, but no luck so far.

Is Besse-en-Chandesse and Besse-et-Saint-Anastaise the same village? Having problem goggling Besse-en-Chandesse.

I’m so glad I asked questions.

Thanks,
MRS

StuDudley

Yep - they are the same place. My Michelin map for the Puy du Dome clearly shows Besse en Chandesse, and there is no Besse-anythingelse listed in the town index for Puy du Dome. However, the Michelin Red guide lists Besse-et-St-Anastaise in the Puy du Dome?????? Looking at the Michelin Map again - there's the town of St Anastaise just 10K or so south of Besse-en Chandesse - so I guess it's the same place. There are two hotels listed in the '08 Michelin Red Guide - both very reasonablly priced. Also a restaurant in town (both hotels also have restaurants). Cute town.

See www.viamichelin.com for Besse en Chandesse to see all the hotels & restarants in the region.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

Actually, the restaurant in Besse that's listed in the Red guide, is also a hotel.

Hotls - all with restarants:
Les Mouflons
La Gazelle
Hostellerie du Beffroy

Stu Dudley

MRS

Stu,

Just received confirmation from Aaisa Chambre d'Hôte in Besse en Chandesse, thank you very much for great advice. You absolutely right – I will be very happy there.

Next question: never picked up a car at CDG. We are planning to rent from AutoErope, and the car we want is available for pick up at Paris CDG Apt, not T2. Not sure who we are flying with, any tips on getting around to AutoErope office there? We are not staying in Paris, but driving directly to Loire Valley.

Thanks,
MRS

StuDudley

The only AutoEurope office is in Portland Maine - don't look for it at CDG. Read your voucher from AutoEurope. It will indicate the actual car rental company (EuropCar, Avis, Hertz, etc) that AutoEurope has placed you with.

I have not picked up a car in Paris in about 15 years or so. We usually take a train or fly to our first non-Paris destination. Don't know what Paris Apt is. Once you find out what terminal you are arriving in, call AutoEurope & change the pick-up location if necessary & have them send you a new voucher. I've done that a couple of times.

Stu Dudley

MRS

Thank you, i will look into it, but i think to start in Loire Valley, Paris is our best bet.

MRS

StuDudley

Paris is fine for starting your trip - I was referring to the pick-up location at CDG. T1, T2, etc.

Stu Dudley