Debbie

My husband and I will be taking my parents to Paris for a week in late September (arrive Friday am, depart Thursday am). This will be their first trip abroad and our first trip to Paris. We will be staying at the New Hotel Roblin in the 8th e. near the Madeleine. Besides all of the incredible things to see in Paris, we would also like to visit Versailles, possibly Giverny, and take a day trip to the Orleans area (my dad was stationed there with the U.S. Army in the early 1950's- he helped build a hospital, etc.) My dad (age 68) tires easily due to Parkinson's disease so we will need to "pace" ourselves accordingly. <BR> I have been researching extensively for this trip and it's been a lot of fun; this travel forum has been very helpful- people have been so gracious in providing information. I have also accumulated a large variety of recommended guidebooks and reference materials. My local public library will be the beneficiary of many of these after our trip is over. But I still have a LOT of questions! <BR> Because on some occasions my parents will be "on their own" while my husband and I tour more intensively, I would like to purchase unlimited passes (transportation, admissions) in advance. That way we are all free to do as much or as little as we choose without trying to get our "money's worth" (and also my mother won't be adding those costs into her trip budget; I just want them to go and have fun!) I did purchase Club France memberships ($50.00 US for me, $35.00 each for the others). They have a few "perks", and also include 3-day museum passes. Unfortunately these could not be traded up to 5-day passes though. I think a bus pass of some kind would nicely fit our Paris transportation needs. <BR> My proposed itinerary: <BR> Friday and Saturday--see "Paristoric" media presentation, do Paris L'Open Tour bus- 2 day unlimited on/off bus to visit the various points of interest, and to help get our "bearings". Use Day 1 & 2 of museum pass. <BR> Sunday--Versailles (fountains?) Use Day 3 of museum pass. (What is the recommended way to see the rest of Versailles- take a tour, etc?) <BR> Monday--Orleans area (What is there to see; is it possible to take train there and rent a car for touring and return trip?) <BR> Tuesday--Giverny (Might be just my husband and I, if Monday was exhausting). <BR> Wednesday--Free day to explore and appreciate. <BR> Thursday--Au revoir! <BR> <BR> With this itinerary transportation is covered on Friday and Saturday. Any recommendations for Sunday through Thursday? (carnet + Carte Orange?) <BR> Input/ suggestions would be very, very much appreciated! Sorry for the lengthy post, but everything seemed important! <BR> <BR>

Donna

These may not be the very latest prices, but a metro ticket costs 8FF, a carnet (strip of ten, you can share them) costs 52FF and the weekly Carte Orange costs 80FF for Zones 1 & 2 (good for unlimited travel on the metro, RER, and buses. As I recall, metro tickets are also good on the buses, but separate tickets are required for the RER. The Carte Orange is valid Monday thru Sunday. It is really, really convenient. You need passport sized photos (you can cut them from your own snapshots or even use "photo booth" shots taken here or in the metro station over there - but it's easier just to bring them) to purchase these passes. You receive a ticket, a pass and a small plastic cover. When using the metro or RER, you use the ticket. When using the buses, you just show your pass to the driver. Note that in Paris, you must wave a bus down. Otherwise the driver does not stop unless someone happens to be getting off. Because of the limited time you have, I highly recommend you get a copy of The Paris Mapguide (ISBN 0140469621). This is a booklet with very detailed maps, including all of the bus routes and the bus stops. It takes a little more effort to figure out the bus routes (especially due to the one way streets), but the bus stops are much closer to the sights, attractions, museums, than the metro, and you have the advantage of enjoying the spectacular scenery all along the way. The metro is full of stairways and hallways. In spite of yourselves, you will do more walking than you can possibly imagine while in Paris. There are miles and miles of hallways in the museums. So, it's good to ride whenever you can. Be aware that the metro is full of pickpockets, especially on the route between Bastille and Arc de Triomphe. Make sure everyone carries their valuables (passport, passes, credit cards, cash) in an under the clothing pouch and you'll never know they're around. Leave your wallets at home. Don't bother trying to purchase transportation passes in advance. It's a snap to purchase Carnets or Carte Orange once you're there. Note that Versailles is beyond Zone 2 and you would need additional tickets. To get to Giverny, you must take a train from Gare St. Lazare to Vernon (unless you book a bus tour)and then walk, catch a bus or taxi the three miles to Giverny. For the length of your stay, a three-day museum pass should be adequate. You could always purchase an additional three-day pass. If you don't mind the expense, I would recommend booking half day tours to Versailles and Giverny. You can go for less on your own, but a tour removes all the headaches. You are delivered directly to the sight, time is allowed for seeing the grounds, and a narrated tour of the interior is included. These places tend to be very, very busy. The tour companies have "appointments" and you could find yourselves in line behind large tour groups to gain admission. In the alternative, you could find out which days the tours go, and select other days and go on your own. But, going with a tour is definitely less "exhausting". Versailles is positively mobbed on days the fountains are turned on. But, most find it worthwhile anyway. Others say they would have gone another time. You are very wise to try to work out your itinerary details in advance to make the most of your time. Your itinerary is somewhat ambitious, but do-able. I would highly recommend that you plan to do the following on Wednesday: Visit the Rooftop of La Samaritaine (department store). Go to Magazin II (Store #2) and take the elevator to the 9th floor. The panoramic views are spectacular. Be sure to take photos of each other with the Tour Eiffel, Sacre Coeur, Notre Dame, in the background. Take a boat cruise on the Seine. Best not to go mid-day when the sun is high and in your eyes (and it's difficult to take photos). Late afternoon or night are ideal. Go to the Tour Eiffel and ride to the top. Best time to go is just before sunset to enjoy the beautiful lighting at dusk. Stay until after sunset and it's dark and the lights have been turned on all over the city. Magical and unforgettable. If you have a friend on AOL, check out the France travel board on the Travel channel. There are dozens and dozens of specific tips for visiting sights outside of Paris on your own.

Boots

<BR>Donna gave you good advice, and I won't repeat any of that. <BR>A train leaves about every half hour for Orléans from the Gare d'Austerlitz--it is important you go to the correct station since there are six in Paris. The trip takes about an hour. Renting a car for a day is not cheap, and you could probably do as well to hire a taxi. Unless you know the city, a taxi would be a great time and frustration saver. <BR>An open train/bus-like deal takes visitors through the gardens of Versailles for a nominal cost, maybe $5. It stops four or five times and you can get off to view the Trianons or walk to Le Hameau de Marie-Antoinette. This is a great energy and time saver since the gardens are immense. Bon voyage to the most beautiful of all cities!

Lisa

Debbie, <BR> <BR>My first recommendation is that you and Don take me with you, as your personal guide! Of course I have never been there but I would be happy to do all of the planning etc! ;-) My next suggestion is to buy a nice bottle of French wine and enjoy the countryside or walk along the river! I am sure your Dad will enjoy remembering his time there from the 50's with the army. Sounds like a wonderful trip, are you sure I can't tag along? <BR>

Kam

Definitely vote for taking 1/2 day bus tours to Versailles and Giverny. Much as I resist the buses, for your dad it would be a great plus. Ask at your hotel about tour companies---there are several. It's hard to know how difficult it is for your father to get around, but the Metro is not easy and is quite crowded, pushing and rushing people. As I recall the fountains are only turned on in the summer and then the only day it's sure is Sunday afternoon, but there are extra times for special reasons too. The palace is closed on Mondays. Certainly see the Petit Trianon, Marie Antionnette's pride and joy and something that cost her dearly! There's nothing else to do in Versailles except perhaps to eat, so a tour is good. The train station in Giverny (acutally Vernon) is too far for your dad to walk--again a tour would be ideal. Orleans is an easy drive from Paris, but as stated above a one day car rental is expensive.It would give you the opportunity to see a couple nearby chateaux--Chambord and Cheverny are fairly close. Consider that a taxi might be a reasonable alternative when there are four of you traveling together. Lastly, touristy though it is, you might want to take a bateau ride on the Seine---down time for your father and yet you'll see a lot of pretty Paris. Have a great trip. <BR>

Vincent

People have already given so many valuable pieces of advice that I will stick to the Orleans-Giverny side-trip. Actually, if you consider the train tickets for the 4 of you + taxi rides, you would be better off renting a car for those two days : Orléans is one hour from Paris on a turnpike, and this way you would be much freer to visit one or two chateaux, not to mention Giverny, and the exhaustion you would avoid to your father : metro + station + train + taxi... Congratulations for planning your trip so carefully, and have a great time !

Kerry

<BR>Previous posts have recommended catching taxis. It can be difficult in Paris to get a taxi to accommodate 4 people - usually the maximum is 3. Clerk at our hotel reception desk arranged for a larger car to collect our family of 4 (2 adults and 2 children) for return trip to the airport as we had to catch 2 taxis on the inward journey. Just something you might like to bear in mind. What a wonderful memory you are creating for your parents. I hope my kids are as considerate when I'm a little older.

marcie

Wonderful tips above. Having just returned, I would like to add that, despite everyone telling you what a touristy cliche it is, a dinner cruise down the Seine in the evening is wonderful, romantic, memorable. There is no commentary, boats are enclosed not open to the weather but surrounded by panoramic glass windows, the tables are beautifully set with linen cloths & napkins, not crowded and the a la carte meals excellent. Ours was a set price menu and included wine. It's a wonderful farewell dinner in Paris as by the end of your trip you can recognise and name all the landmarks that go by, Eiffel Tour, Notre Dame, Louvre etc. You do need to book, our hotel did this for us. Somehow for us it rounded off our Paris stay beautifully.

Lisa

I spend five days in Paris over the summer and did a world wind tour. We did the big stuff, Eiffel Tower, Notre Dame, and the Arc on out own. However, we did take a few tours that I would really recommend. We went to Vesailles and Trianon, which I highly recommend, as well as a Louvre tour through an agency in Paris called City Rama. They are located on the street parallel to the Louvre They did a great job, the guides spoke well understood English and they weren't too expensive(I was traveling on a tight budget). I know they offered tours for the places to mentioned as well as others. They also have a day tour for the Tower, Arc, and Notre Dame which many eb easier for your father. The subways are a good alternative to walking the long distances. They we easy to figure out and we were able to buy a five day pass for unlimited use. If you choose to use them make sure you review a map before you venture out. Have fun with the planning and have a great trip. If you have any questions feel free to e-mail me <BR>

s.fowler

Some of my happiest memories are of the trips I took with my parents when they were still able to travel. [They are both over 90 now.] From trips as a child to the west coast [a 5 1/2 week exercise in family togetherness!] to trips to Europe including a Norwegian Fjord cruise and *yes* PARIS. [We stayed at the Montalembert BEFORE it became a fancy $330+ a night hostelry. A lunch of a salad nicoise, a herbed fish filet and a glass of wine was $6!!! and delicious ... but that was then.....] <BR>The advice you are getting is excellent. I would second tours for Giverny and Versailles. I used Cityrama in 1992 and was as satisfied as you can be with that mode of sightseeing. One of the nicer dinner cruises is also a great idea! I would also recommend [if the weather is not to chilly] the 3 hour canal cruise from Quai D'Orsay to Parc de la Viellete, which goes "under" the bastille and wanders through Paris neighborhoods. The commentary *is* constant but slowly proceeding by boat through Paris [with locks] is a relaxing and unique experience. Paris is also the perfect place for a person who needs to take a break now and then. Just ^plop^ in a neighborhood cafe [they are everywhere], order a coffee and watch "le monde" wander by your table. The coffee is pricey, BUT you have purchased the right to sit at that table for while. It isn't a "waste" of time, for you can watch Parisian life carrying on all around you! [The longest I saw a parking place last, for example, on St. Germain in the 5e, was 45 seconds!] <BR>What a wonderful way to create memories that will last a lifetime! Bon voyage! <BR>

Sherrie Miller

Debbie: I also think it is very thoughtful of you to take your parents to Paris. We just returned from there and I would like to restate what someone else said about the taxis. We were told at our hotel that all the taxis in Paris have a rule that they take only 3 per taxi. They will not take four passengers in a regular cab. Also, we toured Versailles. We went by subway to train to get there. The subways have a lot of walking and steps in them. They alone tire you out. The chatteau is very large. The gardens are beautiful. However, the best advice they gave you is to book a tour to get there and to take you around. Especially since your dad is limited to how much he can walk. The boat ride on the Seine will be unforgettable for him and your mom. We took the open boat in the evening. You will find that the subways are not the way for you to get around since your dad tires easily. Giverny would be great for your dad and mom...the gardens are wonderful and the pace is slower. Just getting there would be difficult on your own unless you took taxi's to the train station. Then there is a shuttle when you get off the train which takes you to Vernon. When you are on your own there, you will have time to explore the wonderful French Cafe on across the Street from Monet's home. You will also have time to wander at a more leisurely pace through Monet's gardens and home. There are also more gardens down the street that are also lovely. I wish you well <BR> <BR>

Debbie

Thank you all for the kindness shown, and valuable insights given to my posting and the others on this forum! We leave for Paris in a few days- I am so excited- we are going to have a GREAT time- and our experiences will be greatly enhanced by what we've learned from all of you. <BR> <BR>A few details I'd still like to work out in advance: <BR>Sunday Versailles tours--Maybe this will be more apparent when we get to Paris (of course by that time they could be filled), but when I checked with several international tour companies here (U.S.) that offer Versailles tours from Paris, the customer reps were not aware of the fountains at Versailles being turned on at certain times (3:30-5:00pm Sundays through October 11). Nor did the tour times seem to reflect this (usually 21/2-31/2 tours at 9am or 2:30 pm). Has anyone done or heard of a tour that coordinates with the fountains? <BR> <BR>On Monday morning we will probably do the TVG train from Paris to Tours, then pick up a car there (3 day car rental through Rail Europe-- $147.00 mid-size, pick up at train station) and drive through the Loire Valley around Orleans and back to Paris Monday evening (we will either park the car on the outskirts and bus in or try driving and parking in Paris if we're feeling brave!) Then, back to the car for a Tuesday afternoon drive to Giverny. We'll probably turn the car in before 3 days are up, but it seems to be the most practical, cost-effective way for the four of us to get around outside of Paris. Should I make the car/train reservations before leaving the U.S? <BR> <BR>On either Tuesday or Wednesday morning my husband and I will be attending a cooking demonstration class at Le Cordon Bleu. (We will get to observe and taste-test. They faxed me the class availabilities and menus- reservations for the classes are needed at least 48 hours in advance.) My husband is the culinary person in our family and he is looking forward to this! <BR> <BR>Thanks again for all of your help-- additional insights are always much appreciated!

s.fowler

BON VOYAGE! <BR>I know you will have a *fabulous* time! <BR>Please post a report when you return k? <BR>

Vincent

Off-season, and on a Monday, there is no need to make reservations for car and train. If I may, one day only to "drive around" the Loire Valley is a little hurried. Drive around will be the actual term, since I don't know whether you'll have time to get off the car at that pace !

Peter

Debbie: 1. Your hotel can make arrangements for a car and driver - best way to get to orleans 2. Half day bus trip to giverny versus rented car and driver - check prices - the car may be same price as 4 adults 3. use the public buses - they are wonderful - very clearly marked and go all over paris (note: most stop running around 10pm) 4. go to Notre Dame for mass regardless of your faith - impressive - ear ice cream at Berthillion on Ile St Louis - enjoy!!! <BR>

larry

Hi Debbie. <BR>Me and my girl friend just went to Giverny on Sat. Sept 19. It was wonderfull it was our last day of a 18 day tour thoughout Europe.It was the highlite of our trip. We used Paris Vision Plus.They come to your hotel in a mini bus .It held 9 people.We found out about them and 2 tour company's at the hotel we stayed at.They picked up 4 different couples at 4 different hotels and then drove out to Giverny. They let us go on our own there for about 2 hours which was pleanty of time to walk around the gardens,the pond,the house, and to look through the store. We also received passes for the Amer. Impressionast museum which was just down the road about 100 yards. They drove us back along a very senic road where a bus would'nt be able to go. They droped us where ever we wanted to.It cost 430 ff per person. <BR> also they had just started picking grapes in the Burg region. <BR>

larry

Hi Debbie. <BR>Me and my girl friend just went to Giverny on Sat. Sept 19. It was wonderfull it was our last day of a 18 day tour thoughout Europe.It was the highlite of our trip. We used Paris Vision Plus.They come to your hotel in a mini bus .It held 9 people.We found out about them and 2 tour company's at the hotel we stayed at.They picked up 4 different couples at 4 different hotels and then drove out to Giverny. They let us go on our own there for about 2 hours which was pleanty of time to walk around the gardens,the pond,the house, and to look through the store. We also received passes for the Amer. Impressionist museum which was just down the road about 100 yards. They drove us back along a very senic road where a bus would'nt be able to go. They droped us where ever we wanted to.It cost 430 ff per person. <BR> also they had just started picking grapes in the Burg region. <BR>

Dayle

Does anyone know...might we expect Versailles to be as crowded on an October weekday? If so, should we plan on arriving very early? It seems there is a major car show in Paris the week we will be there and the hotels are almost fully booked. <BR>

Vincent

Versailles is always more or less "crowded", but a weekday in October with no school vacation in sight should be OK. Don't worry too much, you won't stand in line

Anneke

We spent 3 days in Paris and could not figure the bus routes out. I wish we did, because for the same price as a metro ride you can ride above ground and expereince the city as you drive past. The metros also had long corridors and long flights of stairs (especially in Montmarne). I am not sure that you actually save on walking by taking the metro. So, well try to figure out the bus routes. <BR>