I did have a structured plan but 'things' have forced me to start from scrathc with my plans and would like some input please.<BR><BR>As background you should probably know that:<BR>We are young (by name and nature)<BR>We are driving and we often drive long distances every week and so distcanes is not a problem<BR>This is our first trip to UK but we will be back about every 2 to 3 years.<BR>We want to 'scrath the surface' and get an overview for which to help us plan future trips.<BR>we love the idea of experiencing the England and scotland but are happy to have a lot of little tastes of the people (not literally), the sites, the history and country is important to us...even driving through it is enjoyable just for the scenery.<BR><BR>Ok, so we want to drive to see all of these things:<BR><BR>Leave london (after 2 days there) go to Stonehenge, bath, Stratford upin Avon, Coventry and I guess a few little things along the way that I hear about but not sure exactly where they are yet. Then to Manchester. I have to spend a FULL day in manchester so would need to arrive there in the night sleep, do business then 5pm leave. So how long should I leave (remember I know i can spend many many days but choose not to). In other words, what is the absolute minimum time.<BR><BR>After Manchester leave 5pm go to berwick upon tweed fro a brief stop and dinner and then get as close to edinburgh as possible for sleepy byes.<BR>Planning on edinburgh for 3/4 of a day even though i won't see it all...can i see enough of the royalty things etc to somewhat appreciated the taste of it. I can be convinced to spend the full day there... maybe, but hoping not to. <BR><BR>From edinburgh go the coastal way to St ANdrews or skip St andrews and make way to Perth if the only worthwhile thing in St Andrews is the Golfing thing (not a golfer). <BR><BR>Whether or not I go to St ANdrews then go up to perth area over to crieff and west along Loch Earn, north to Killen and the Falls of Dochart Then back south to Balquhidder, to Callander, west along Loch Venachar, through the Queen Elizabeth Forest Park, the lake of Menteith and then to Stirling. <BR><BR>Now I am thinking that if I can get to Stirling lets say by Sunday mid morning for an o'night stay then that would be enough time to see the castle and some braveheart stuff even though they tell me I can stay there for a week and still enjoy it. Any ideas on what day I should be leaving edinburgh (leaving mid afternoon) in order to do this trip? In other words from start of edinburgh in the morning to end of stirling with an o'night stay...how long for absolute minimum???<BR><BR>Not a short question but am greatful for any advice or even any critics out there cos it all helps.<BR><BR>ta<BR>JAred<BR>PS travelling in a month

Whew! Here's hoping that someone, anyone, is willing, or able, to help straighten all that out!

jared, honey - try posting again after the meds wear off.

Do you mean to tell me you want to 'Leave london (after 2 days there) go to Stonehenge, bath, Stratford upin Avon, Coventry...Then to Manchester' all in one day????<BR>'edinburgh for 3/4 of a day'???<BR>Mamma Mia!!

sigh....<BR><BR>yes its a yucky big message, but so are my plans right now. Can you imagine the pain of having all your plans totally screwed by some....... anyways.<BR><BR>I had originally thought about london to manchester in one ay but am told that is not possible...is that right?<BR><BR>I am not sightseeing in manchester as I am told there is nothing to see but can i do the london to manchester in say a day and a half?<BR><BR>BTW, after scotland we plan on going to a few little locations in england eg gretna green and blackpool and then 2 more days in london. <BR><BR>

sigh....<BR><BR>yes its a yucky big message, but so are my plans right now. Can you imagine the pain of having all your plans totally screwed by some....... anyways.<BR><BR>I had originally thought about london to manchester in one ay but am told that is not possible...is that right?<BR><BR>I am not sightseeing in manchester as I am told there is nothing to see but can i do the london to manchester in say a day and a half?<BR><BR>BTW, after scotland we plan on going to a few little locations in england eg gretna green and blackpool and then 2 more days in london. <BR><BR>

Jared, the Sccottish bit of your route is fine but you are less than clear about how long you intend taking to do it. <BR><BR>Since you don't say when you're leaving Edinburgh or where the overnight stops are, I have no idea whether or not you can reach Stirling by Monday.<BR><BR>And Gretna's NOT in England. That was the whole point!!

sheila, <BR>I guess I am asking how long I should give myself at a MINIMUM. I can do one week or up to three but I want to know the minimum for a scratch and sniff overview. <BR><BR>btw, gretna green is on the border or thereabouts right?

You could do, say, Stonehenge and Bath the day you leave London, and stay in the Cotswolds overnight. Then Stratford and Coventry (why Coventry? the cathedral is nice) or maybe Warwick Castle the next day. You could get to Manchester that evening. It would be a full day.

Question is, will Jared be forced to eat something other than low-calorie SUBWAY subs?

If I were you I'd plan your route and check travel times.<BR><BR>Both the AA http://www.theaa.com/ <BR>and the RAC<BR>http://www.rac.co.uk/ have route planners<BR><BR>

jared, if you drive as scatterbrained as you write maybe you should take a bus.<BR><BR>There are several people on this board (I'm not a GB expert) who can give you a lot of help. But you need to do your part and write what you want to do in simple declarative sentences. No one can possibly give you resonable recommendations unless they have a clue what you are talking about. And I have one question, if you don't want to go to Manchester because there is nothing to see, why do you plan on stopping there?

some helpful comments, especially from ruth and sylvia.<BR><BR>I wrote the message when a wee bit stressed. I realsie I should have broken the message up into at least 2 different threads but thats life. <BR><BR>I appreciate whatever help is possible despite my scatterbrain (i think you called that one correctly).

The Manchester to Edinburgh bit is simply unrealistic. Leaving Manchester at 5pm will be right in the middle of rush hour, with heavy traffic throughout the M62 over the Pennines. Expect average speeds of less than 30mph until you are well out of the Manchester conurbation. You'll then hit the A1, much of which (once you're over the border into Scotland) is still single carriageway, with average speeds of under 45mph. Stopping at Berwick upon Tweed in the late evening and finding somewhere to eat will add another 1 to 1.5 hours. You will eventually arrive at Edinburgh at around midnight totally exhausted.

I think your information about Manchester is well out of date. The whole of Manchester has been rejuvinated since the IRA chose to destroy it, and we also now have the commonwealth stadium. Don't fall into the old trap of thinking London is the only place in the uk.<BR>As for your itinerary, allow two weeks if you actually want to see anything. You can do it in one week if all you want to do is drive and take pictures.<BR>

Wholly unrealistic for a number of reasons, Jared, although commendable that you think this is achiveable.<BR><BR>I'm not saying that it isn't however you are stretching things a little to think your driving time/distance calcs are anywhere near do-able.<BR><BR>UK is not a mini USA as far as road networks go; indeed far from it.<BR><BR>If you are indeed coming back every 2 or 3 years what's the rush to see all the places you list on this first trip?

OK, let's take this chunk by chunk.<BR><BR>London - don't get the car until you are about to leave. You'll waste two days car hire as cars are completely useless in London (average speed is not about 2.5 mph - you're quicker walking!)<BR><BR>London - Stonehenge is about 2 hours. Another hour will take you to Bath. I'd suggest an overnight stay there. Then you're about 2.5 hours drive to Stratford-upon-Avon - I'd skip Coventry, though. About three hours then to Manchester. Manchester isn't a bad town - you can wander round the centre, and see the changes for good which can rise out of terrorist activity.<BR><BR>Then Manchester to Edinburgh. This is about a five hour drive up the M6 - going via Berwick would be longer. Stay overnight in Manchester, then head up the next day. You'll probably want at least two days in Edinburgh itself, just to get a feel for the place.<BR><BR>St Andrews is worth visiting, even if you don't play golf. Head across the river into Fife and approach St Andrews from the south, through the fishing villages of St Monans, Anstruther and Crail. Time your trip so that you can visit the Craw's Nest Hotel in Anstruther for lunch. In St Andrews visit the castle, and the cathedral. Overnight in St Andrews.<BR><BR>Then the Highland bit. I don't really know this area (shame on me!) so I'll leave that for others to talk you through.<BR><BR>Gretna (in Scotland!) is OK but is really a bit of a tourist trap now. Likewise, unless you're really keen to go there, I'd avoid Blackpool. Imagine Fort Lauderdale during Spring Break with a fairground on the beach, and you have the general idea. A much nicer area is the Lake District, esp. around Windermere.

ttt

How long are you going to be in the UK for?<BR>Where do you fly into / out of?<BR>Are you dead set on doing lots of driving?<BR>How many days do you have before you must be in Manchester?<BR>I would suggest with what you know you have to do, and look at how much time before and after you have to be in Manchester.<BR>Consider taking trains for long journeys (although it is important to check is any strikes are scheduled, and I would not take trains on Sundays as this is when some lines are shut for repairs). <BR>It is easy to take a train from London to Manchester, much easier than driving.<BR>There are also high speed trains from Edinburgh to London.<BR>Also, it is possible to fly cheaply, for example with easyjet from Luton (nr London) to/from Scotland.<BR>All these things could save time. If you are not careful all you will see is motorways. The roads in England are very crowded.<BR>Coventry?? No reason to go there that I can think of. Possibly my least favourite city in the UK!<BR>Bath - worth a day. With a car, and more time, you could explore the surrounding countryside which is very beautiful.<BR>I would either cut out Stonehenge or Bath, unless you have several days.<BR>Good luck,<BR>Carolina

Thank you all so much. I have made some adjustments and added 3 days to my original plan for the UK. By some reckoning I suppose this is still not enough but I ahve decided not to go to conventry and Blackpool and still thinking of some other deletions. I am indeed very grateful for your help. and any additonal help that may come after this posting.<BR><BR>I would like to ask one more question. I had planned to spend a few hours at Queen Elizabeth Forest Park at the part which is nearish to the lake of Menteith. Would a couple (2 or 3) hours give me some appreciation for the park or should I just skip it and plan for a much longer visit to it at some other time?<BR>Thankyou