meaganc

Thanks Mimar!!

menachem

Also, within Europe, there are routes where it makes more sense to take high speed trains than it is to fly, e.g. Amsterdam - Paris. If you do, make sure you book early, that way you'll get the discounted tickets. Amsterdam - Paris can be 35 euro euro for a single if you book well ahead, or it can be 140 if you book a week in advance.

Italy, France, Amsterdam sounds to me like flying into Rome, flying to Paris, Thalys train to Amsterdam, flying out of Amsterdam. Or the other way round of course.

I love Nice and the Cote d'Azur in general. Fairly easy to get from Nice to Paris by TGV too, so it might be a nice stopover on the way from Italy.

meaganc

Thanks menachem. I will look at the Cote d'Azur and thanks for the tip on the train. If you were doing the three areas, what order would you do the Italy cities so you could do a stopover in Nice before Paris? I think we will do Italy first. Also, is there another area in France that is a must see? Our other option is just doing Italy and France and cutting out other countries so we can cover a larger area. I have also heard about Cinque Terre. Is this worth a visit?

Mimar

Nice makes a great base for exploring the French Riviera. It's a big city but one with lots of charm. And it has excellent public transportation options up and down the coast. Lots to see there.

Florence would be the closest of your Italian cities to France. But it's a minimum 7 hour train ride. Cinque Terre would make a nice stop to break up that trip. But the CT is very popular in the summer. Crowds fill the small towns. Another town on the Ligurian coast on the train route to the CT would be better. Some place like Santa Margherita Ligure or Sestri Levante. Or Camogli, a small little fishing town we loved. In high season there are also boat trips along the coast between towns.

Another option would be to fly Easyjet or Vueling from Rome Fiumicino to Nice. Quick, inexpensive flight -- as long as you don't bring too much luggage. In this case you could fly into Venice at the start of your trip, always a good place to get over jet lag.

I wouldn't look for another stop in France. You don't want to cram in too much. Better to do daytrips from Paris. Here's a link to a thread with lots of options: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-542820-2.cfm.

I know you will want to go everywhere, see everything. But, if you do that, you see mostly train stations and airports. It might not be so long til you return, bringing your children.

Truffles

meaganc - you've received a lot of excellent advice above.

Not sure how much I can add, but as a fellow Canadian traveler, I think a budget of $10,000 for two is more than adequate - it really depends on how much you want to spend (air and hotels are your biggest up front expenses).

I usually start at a baseline of $150-$200/night for hotels (my criteria is comfortable, safe, good location, and a cancellation policy that I can live with), and will adjust upwards (sometimes downwards) depending on a variety of factors. Tripadvisor is a great place to research hotels once you have hotel names to work with - throw out the very bad, and the excessively good reviews and find a median that you're comfortable with.

For hotel names, I read trip reports here for ideas and haven't been steered wrong yet! If you book directly with hotel websites, there are often discounts available for longer stays (ie 3 nights, 4th free), pre-payment etc.

For flights, I've traveled on BA my last few trips to Italy - the pricing has been the same or better than Air Canada, though they connect through Heathrow (which I personally don't mind). If you're price sensitive look at both.

For trains, I always book point to point tickets as I find the cost and the train options better than those offered with a railpass. I've also booked my train tickets in advance as there can be considerable savings to be had.

Hope this helps. Happy planning!

ellenem

FYI, to search for "open jaw" airline tickets, on most airline websites you would choose the "multi-city" option. (Do NOT search for two one-way tickets.)

meaganc

Thanks Mimar and Truffles! Once I start to get a plan in place I will likely have more questions haha!

Ellenem - what is the difference? I was definitely searching one-way tickets not multi-city.

dwdvagamundo

Meagan--

For lodging, I'd check out Tripadvisor.com and booking.com for lodging choices. They will have vacation rentals (apartments) as well as hotels and b&bs. To use these, put in your dates and look at what pops up. Use the map (right hand side of webpage) to see where the place is in relation to public transportation--relevant probably only for Paris on your trip--and what you want to see, and then move around on the map to check out hotels that may be better geographically.

Booking directly with hotels doesn't work for me unless I'm very familiar with the city and have zeroed in on where I want to stay. Otherwise, it just takes too long. In general, booking.com's prices are as good as any. One tip is to be sure to book refundable rooms, even though they cost more per nite. You can check availability at that hotel nearer your departure and then cancel and rebook at a non-refundable rate.

candj83

Meagan, Italy is full of great smaller towns to explore. So many options from either Florence or Rome. We spent a few days in Orvieto on our honeymoon and absolutely loved it. We also visited the Cinque Terre for a few days...DH and I both preferred Orvieto but the CT is nice. We were there in April, somewhat shoulder season, and we were surrounded by English speaking tourists, which was ok, just different. I would recommend Orvieto or Siena to the CT, personally. There are lots of other great towns to check out in Tuscany. If you do end up considering Orvieto, we stayed at Casa Selita, an outstanding B&B.

zorrosf

Whether to include Barcelona in your trip is a matter of presonal preference. No one would criticize your decision either way. With 21 days, you certainly have time to include BCN, but doing so will cut down on the number of days you can spend in Italy and Paris. And yes, we have been to all the places I recommended which is why I recommended them. Barcelona, Venice and Paris are 3 of our four favorite places in Europe (Sorrento being the other, but you don't have time for that this trip). Note that I did not include Rome (obligatory, but not endearing, or Florence-ditto) in our top four. Apartment vs. hotel depends on whether you will actually prepare any meals (like breakfast) for yourself, whether you can live without a concierge and a bar, and whether you are comfortable in small spaces (even the most luxurious hotels may have rooms that are small by North American standards). A chacun son gout, as they say.

Jackie44

Re: the AC fuel surcharge
Sorry about this - it only applies to Aeroplan members:

http://www.aircanada.com/en/aeroplan...e/updates.html

casperjj

Thanks Jackie. I had seen that in my searches. Hubbie is 50K altitude status thru aeroplan but the removal of the air fuel surcharge is only for flights that are purchased with points (not others, that would be a nice perk). And then, only for those with 100K status on flights to Europe. And don't get me talking about getting tickets on points. He has almost 500K points and still doesn't have enough for our family of five to fly to Europe. Stupid system! They promote that flights to Europe are 60K each so 300K for five tickets but when you go to get them, the only ones available are 90k each and they want you to make three stops to get there! Sorry, mini rant stopped. Thanks for the info

Jackie44

Casperjj, we have the same issue. We will probably buy our tickets to Italy and save our points for short hops in Canada and the US.
Meagan, you may enjoy Ashley's trip report for Italy; her photos are spectacular:

http://www.hitherandthither.net/2014...ome-italy.html

ellenem

When you go to an airline site, you usually have three choices: Roundtrip, One Way, or Multi-city/Multiple cities.

If you try to book two one way tickets, they will be considered totally different trips and not be connected to one another. A one way ticket is usually significantly more expensive than the cost per flight when you buy the ticket as round trip. Choosing multi-city books the two flights as the same trip, just like a roundtrip ticket, but you can fly between multiple different cities.

Here on Fodors, we see this play out this way:

OP: "I tried to book open jaw, flying to Venice and home from Rome, but it was almost double the price of flying roundtrip to and from Rome."

Fodorite: "Did you use the multi-city option or were you trying one-way tickets?"

OP: "I was trying one way tickets. Oh my! When I use multicity flying to Venice and home from Rome, it's just $100 more than roundtrip to Rome."

Curtain

meaganc

Thank you so much everyone! I have been so excited to come home from work every day and see all the amazing suggestions everyone has! I am going to do a bit of research re: places with all the information I have been provided here and will likely come back with some more questions once I have narrowed things down a bit.

As a side note, based on some of the recommended areas above, does anyone have a specific place they stayed (hotel, apartment, b&b, hostel - hey I'm open-minded!) that they loved and would recommend?

Thanks a bunch again to everyone!!! I'll be sure to update you all with my plans

menachem

We come back, again and again to Le Robinet d'Or in Paris. Super friendly people, a 3 star hotel with ditto prices, but 4 star allure and style. Their restaurant is good too, which is unexpected for a hotel restaurant, but there it is. It's an old faucet factory. Their suites are particularly good value for money and the bonus is you get your own front door in Paris.

Terrific value for money, and just off Canal St Martin, within fairly easy walking distance from Gare du Nord.

meaganc

candj83 - Can you give me an outline of your trip from your honeymoon?

zorrosf - where in Sorrento do you recommend? Do you recommend this over Positano?

To all who responded thanks so much! I have cleaned up the itinerary a lot since I posted here last.

I am thinking:
Fly into Paris (arrive 7am) July 12. Depart July 15 (flight to Venice)
Venice July 15 departing July 18 - train to Florence
Florence July 18 departing July 21 - train to Salerno then ferry to Positano
Positano July 21-departing either 25 or 26 (4 or 5 nights) - do some day trips
Rome for three nights and head home

Thoughts?

We would like to go to Pompeii but not sure if we can based on this itinerary. We found an amazing place to stay in Positano but I am wondering whether we should be staying in Sorrento as it is a more central location? Not sure where though.

Can anyone tell me what I should budget from a cost perspective for trains, ferry, etc. on the trip (including day trips from Positano). Also possible food budget for the time I am away? How many euro should we need a day for 2 people?

kybourbon

>>>We found an amazing place to stay in Positano<<<<

Where? Not all places are in good locations.

You are only giving Paris and Rome two days each. That isn't much time for major cities.

>>>As a side note, based on some of the recommended areas above, does anyone have a specific place they stayed (hotel, apartment, b&b, hostel - hey I'm open-minded!) that they loved and would recommend?<<<<

You need to state your hotel budget per night if you want suggestions.

If you haven't booked flights yet, you might look at flying into Paris and home from Venice. Take a budget flight from Paris to Naples and start your Italy trip on the coast (Positano? Sorrento?), then Rome, Florence, Venice.

>>>Can anyone tell me what I should budget from a cost perspective for trains, ferry, etc. on the trip (including day trips from Positano).<<<

You can get discount train tickets if you buy in advance online (as long as you are certain of your dates/times). Ferry prices depend on type of ferry/route. If the sea is rough, ferries don't put in to Positano.

In your daily budget, you need to factor in transport within a city (bus/tram/metro/vaporetto) along with entrance fees to sites.

You might consider dropping a location. It will be very hot in Italy in July and you won't always feel like doing as much (you may need to take breaks in the heat of the day).

meaganc

Kybourbon:

Budget for hotels - 250 canadian Max (180 euro) per night for Positano - 200 canadian in other areas

If you were to drop somewhere, where would it be? Maybe cut out Paris and just focus on Italy?

We are pretty fast paced people as it is - we did all of NYC in three (very busy!) days!

menachem

Cut out Paris?