Please help me pare my wish-list for Switzerland to fit into 25 days
Dec 22nd, 2012, 08:40 PM
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I need some help understading the Bernina Express. It seems that I’ve read at least a half-dozen different descriptions, and they don't all seem to jive. And just in case I’ve named it incorrectly, I mean the UNESCO World Heritage line(s) run by Rhaetian Railways.
• I now think that the part that is UNESCO listed—and the part that is most spectacular—is from Thusis to Tirano. One can get on further north, for example, in Chur or (by skipping the leg from Thusis to Filisur) in Davos. Once in Tirano, one can transfer to a Rhaetian Railways-run bus to Lugano. There are other trains on the same tracks—trains that wouldn’t cost as much—but the Bernina Express has windows that afford panoramic views and, because seating is by reservation and windows are panoramic, other travelers may be less likely to move into positions that block the views. Does that begin to describe it?
• Looking at the info and schedules on
http://www.rhb.ch/Bernina-Express.2188.0.html?&L=4
it seems that if I want to spend a couple of nights in Pontresina, I would need to use a different train (not a Bernina Express) to get there, but could then take the Bernina Express on to Tirano. If I did that, would I miss any particularly special stretches of the Bernina Express? Would it be worth considering using the Bernina Express to get from some convenient point to St. Moritz, and then transferring to another train to get to Pontresina?
➢ Ingo
Thanks again for all the very helpful information!
Soglio it is pictured on the front of my Michelin Green Guide, and looks utterly awesome! Sounds hard to get to, though. Has that been your experience?
Walking from Guarda to Ardez sound wonderful--thanks!
➢ Nonconformist and
➢ PalenQ
I love open-air museums showing regional architecture and crafts! This one sounds delightful—thanks so much for making sure I knew about it. (One of the descriptions I once read of a similar museum elsewhere called it “a retirement home” for special examples of traditional buildings. I’ve always liked that sobriquet.) Going by boat sounds lovely, and I will definitely check out the carved woodwork in town.
• I now think that the part that is UNESCO listed—and the part that is most spectacular—is from Thusis to Tirano. One can get on further north, for example, in Chur or (by skipping the leg from Thusis to Filisur) in Davos. Once in Tirano, one can transfer to a Rhaetian Railways-run bus to Lugano. There are other trains on the same tracks—trains that wouldn’t cost as much—but the Bernina Express has windows that afford panoramic views and, because seating is by reservation and windows are panoramic, other travelers may be less likely to move into positions that block the views. Does that begin to describe it?
• Looking at the info and schedules on
http://www.rhb.ch/Bernina-Express.2188.0.html?&L=4
it seems that if I want to spend a couple of nights in Pontresina, I would need to use a different train (not a Bernina Express) to get there, but could then take the Bernina Express on to Tirano. If I did that, would I miss any particularly special stretches of the Bernina Express? Would it be worth considering using the Bernina Express to get from some convenient point to St. Moritz, and then transferring to another train to get to Pontresina?
➢ Ingo
Thanks again for all the very helpful information!
Soglio it is pictured on the front of my Michelin Green Guide, and looks utterly awesome! Sounds hard to get to, though. Has that been your experience?
Walking from Guarda to Ardez sound wonderful--thanks!
➢ Nonconformist and
➢ PalenQ
I love open-air museums showing regional architecture and crafts! This one sounds delightful—thanks so much for making sure I knew about it. (One of the descriptions I once read of a similar museum elsewhere called it “a retirement home” for special examples of traditional buildings. I’ve always liked that sobriquet.) Going by boat sounds lovely, and I will definitely check out the carved woodwork in town.
Dec 23rd, 2012, 12:49 AM
#22
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bernina Express:
The description is correct. Let me add that the part between Thusis and St. Moritz is the "Albula" railway line, more famous (and UNESCO heritage listed) for its technical wonders than for scenery, and the part St. Moritz - Tirano is the actual "Bernina" railway, famous for both technical wonders and scenery. The Albula part has just the usual Alpine scenery - which is of course beautiful - but lots and lots of spiral tunnels, spectacular bridges (Landwasser viaduct e.g.) and such. The Bernina part rarely has tunnels, but the views of the glaciers, mountains and the view down to the Poschiavo valley are gorgeous. A technical wonder is the spiral viaduct in Brusio, an "open-air" equivalent to the spiral tunnels of the Albula part. In summer (too late for you) they have open panoramic cars attached to the regular trains on the Bernina route which are more exciting than the enclosed Panoramic cars of the Bernina Express. Far more fun.
It totally depends on which route you plan to get to Pontresina (or Müstair earlier). You need to check schedules at www.sbb.ch to find out what's doable. The Albula route from Chur is more scenic than the railway route through Landquart - Klosters - Vereina when travelling to Müstair, but it's longer. If it fits into your itinerary then I'd go for the Albula route.
You don't need to go to St. Moritz first to get to Pontresina. I am sure you can change trains in Samedan, two stops before St. Moritz. Change is on the same platform, trains are vis-a-vis, no problem.
Getting to Soglio is easy, direct buses from St. Moritz to Promontogno where you change to the other bus for the short uphill ride to Soglio. But it takes a while ... again, check schedules at www.sbb.ch
I.
The description is correct. Let me add that the part between Thusis and St. Moritz is the "Albula" railway line, more famous (and UNESCO heritage listed) for its technical wonders than for scenery, and the part St. Moritz - Tirano is the actual "Bernina" railway, famous for both technical wonders and scenery. The Albula part has just the usual Alpine scenery - which is of course beautiful - but lots and lots of spiral tunnels, spectacular bridges (Landwasser viaduct e.g.) and such. The Bernina part rarely has tunnels, but the views of the glaciers, mountains and the view down to the Poschiavo valley are gorgeous. A technical wonder is the spiral viaduct in Brusio, an "open-air" equivalent to the spiral tunnels of the Albula part. In summer (too late for you) they have open panoramic cars attached to the regular trains on the Bernina route which are more exciting than the enclosed Panoramic cars of the Bernina Express. Far more fun.
It totally depends on which route you plan to get to Pontresina (or Müstair earlier). You need to check schedules at www.sbb.ch to find out what's doable. The Albula route from Chur is more scenic than the railway route through Landquart - Klosters - Vereina when travelling to Müstair, but it's longer. If it fits into your itinerary then I'd go for the Albula route.
You don't need to go to St. Moritz first to get to Pontresina. I am sure you can change trains in Samedan, two stops before St. Moritz. Change is on the same platform, trains are vis-a-vis, no problem.
Getting to Soglio is easy, direct buses from St. Moritz to Promontogno where you change to the other bus for the short uphill ride to Soglio. But it takes a while ... again, check schedules at www.sbb.ch
I.
Dec 23rd, 2012, 08:01 AM
#23
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the Albula Route is also a UNESCO World Heritage rail line, because of its prodigous, for circa 1900, feats of engineering, especially the famous loops where the train loops into and out of the mountain as it circles up or down, depending on the direction.
I think to get to Pontresina by train you have to go via the Albula Railways, part of the Glacier Express route and some of the Bernina Expresses but not all as many only go between St Moritz and Tirano, Italy.
I think to get to Pontresina by train you have to go via the Albula Railways, part of the Glacier Express route and some of the Bernina Expresses but not all as many only go between St Moritz and Tirano, Italy.
Dec 23rd, 2012, 01:35 PM
#24
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greetings kja..hope all is well with you.
Palenque and I are probably the only two Fodorites who favor Interlaken as a base for the B.O. On our most recent Swiss journey, we thoroughly enjoyed staying on the south side on the banks of the River Aare, at the very pleasant and lone-standing, Hotel Goldey Swiss...taking six day trips from Interlaken-Ost were pleasureable and very easy..no crowds in the fall. Connections are comfortable.
However, before every Interlaken detractor jumps on board, I'll leave it at that. KJA, knowing the way you do your homework for traveling, you will have a most rewarding trip!
Palenque, old boy, chime in if you wish. Then duck!
stu
Palenque and I are probably the only two Fodorites who favor Interlaken as a base for the B.O. On our most recent Swiss journey, we thoroughly enjoyed staying on the south side on the banks of the River Aare, at the very pleasant and lone-standing, Hotel Goldey Swiss...taking six day trips from Interlaken-Ost were pleasureable and very easy..no crowds in the fall. Connections are comfortable.
However, before every Interlaken detractor jumps on board, I'll leave it at that. KJA, knowing the way you do your homework for traveling, you will have a most rewarding trip!
Palenque, old boy, chime in if you wish. Then duck!
stu
Dec 23rd, 2012, 08:32 PM
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
➢ Ingo and
➢ PalenQ
Thanks for the additional info - the knowledge you guys have and share is awesome!
I now know, for certain, that I will make it a point to see the stretch of the Bernina Express between Thusis and St. Moritz—the chance to marvel at the engineering is part of why I wanted to ride this particular train. I’m not an engineer and know little about the specific challenges or solutions (I’ll try to learn more before I get there), but I have a long interest in such technological feats. And I know that both my father and maternal grandfather would have loved to see that stretch, or to know that I have done so! One of my earliest childhood memories of the two of them together is when they went out of their way to take the family to see the Pennsylvania Railroad’s Horseshoe Curve and their efforts to make sure that all of us, including me (the youngest), had some understanding of why that stretch of track was special. I’ve never been able to see that curve, or any other unusual stretch of track, without experiencing a slew of fond memories of them.
• “You can change trains in Samedan, two stops before St. Moritz….” Samedan is very near a good stop for the Muottas Muragl, isn’t it? It looks like it has a left-luggage office, so if the timing and weather are right, I could consider stopping en route? That would be great! (Of course, I can backtrack if timing or weather don’t cooperate.)
• Glad to know I can get to Soglio easily! I might not have time, but if the weather doesn’t offer a decent chance for a good view from Muottas Muragl or one of the other peaks in the area, visiting the impossibly picturesque Soglio might be a reasonable back-up plan. (From my early research, I think there’s a walk by the Upper Engadine Lakes from Maloja to Silvaplana that would be my first priority for the area, other than visiting Muottas Muragl. Do you agree that that particular walk is worth considering?)
➢ Tower
Hi, Stu—thanks for jumping in!
I will definitely take your recommendation about Interlaken under advisement, but I wonder if it might have changed since you were last there. Perhaps you’ll understand my puzzlement if you look at Alice9’s comment about Interlaken in her trip report last year. LOL!
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...terbrunnen.cfm
Of the day-trips you took from Interlaken, are there ones you recommend with more or less enthusiasm? There’s SO much to do in the Bernese Oberland that I’m finding it very hard to decide what to do and what to skip in light of other experiences I’ll have elsewhere, so any feedback you care to provide will be helpful. The things that I’ve currently flagged for serious consideration, at this very early stage of my planning, include Schilthorn (with stops in various villages en route); the Schynige Platte (and its alpine garden), Staubachfalle and Trummelbachfalle (I love waterfalls, and it sounds like they can be seen on a nice walk), the Panoramaweg from Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg (I believe I can start via gondola from Grindelwald, which I definitely hope to see); Brienz and its outdoor museum; and maybe a boat ride on Thunersee with stops at Hilterfingen (I’m a fan of Jugendstil) and Oberhofen. But nothing is writ in stone yet, and I'm not yet certain how long I will devote to this area (I'm currently inclined to give it at least 4 days, and maybe 5 depending on what I cut elsewhere or whether I find a way to extend my vacation).
And thanks for your kind words about my travel homework! I truly love planning my trips, but I’m currently struggling through the part I like least—the part when I’m crossing things OFF my list. As I say farewell to some fantasies--however ill-formed, or even ill-informed--I sometimes forget just how much better my overall experiences will be as a result. I feel very fortunate to be able to call on my fellow Fodorites for advice at this stage, before I invest to much time or energy into options that aren't realistic or may not be all that worthy. (And of course, I'm glad that I can call on everyone again when I try to nail down a more realistic plan.)
Best to you and yours over the holiday season and in 2013! I’ve been checking H&H’s web-site, hoping they’ll make it back to my neck of the woods sometime soon. Better not be while I’m away! Please send them my best wishes.
➢ PalenQ
Thanks for the additional info - the knowledge you guys have and share is awesome!
I now know, for certain, that I will make it a point to see the stretch of the Bernina Express between Thusis and St. Moritz—the chance to marvel at the engineering is part of why I wanted to ride this particular train. I’m not an engineer and know little about the specific challenges or solutions (I’ll try to learn more before I get there), but I have a long interest in such technological feats. And I know that both my father and maternal grandfather would have loved to see that stretch, or to know that I have done so! One of my earliest childhood memories of the two of them together is when they went out of their way to take the family to see the Pennsylvania Railroad’s Horseshoe Curve and their efforts to make sure that all of us, including me (the youngest), had some understanding of why that stretch of track was special. I’ve never been able to see that curve, or any other unusual stretch of track, without experiencing a slew of fond memories of them.
• “You can change trains in Samedan, two stops before St. Moritz….” Samedan is very near a good stop for the Muottas Muragl, isn’t it? It looks like it has a left-luggage office, so if the timing and weather are right, I could consider stopping en route? That would be great! (Of course, I can backtrack if timing or weather don’t cooperate.)
• Glad to know I can get to Soglio easily! I might not have time, but if the weather doesn’t offer a decent chance for a good view from Muottas Muragl or one of the other peaks in the area, visiting the impossibly picturesque Soglio might be a reasonable back-up plan. (From my early research, I think there’s a walk by the Upper Engadine Lakes from Maloja to Silvaplana that would be my first priority for the area, other than visiting Muottas Muragl. Do you agree that that particular walk is worth considering?)
➢ Tower
Hi, Stu—thanks for jumping in!
I will definitely take your recommendation about Interlaken under advisement, but I wonder if it might have changed since you were last there. Perhaps you’ll understand my puzzlement if you look at Alice9’s comment about Interlaken in her trip report last year. LOL!
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...terbrunnen.cfm
Of the day-trips you took from Interlaken, are there ones you recommend with more or less enthusiasm? There’s SO much to do in the Bernese Oberland that I’m finding it very hard to decide what to do and what to skip in light of other experiences I’ll have elsewhere, so any feedback you care to provide will be helpful. The things that I’ve currently flagged for serious consideration, at this very early stage of my planning, include Schilthorn (with stops in various villages en route); the Schynige Platte (and its alpine garden), Staubachfalle and Trummelbachfalle (I love waterfalls, and it sounds like they can be seen on a nice walk), the Panoramaweg from Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg (I believe I can start via gondola from Grindelwald, which I definitely hope to see); Brienz and its outdoor museum; and maybe a boat ride on Thunersee with stops at Hilterfingen (I’m a fan of Jugendstil) and Oberhofen. But nothing is writ in stone yet, and I'm not yet certain how long I will devote to this area (I'm currently inclined to give it at least 4 days, and maybe 5 depending on what I cut elsewhere or whether I find a way to extend my vacation).
And thanks for your kind words about my travel homework! I truly love planning my trips, but I’m currently struggling through the part I like least—the part when I’m crossing things OFF my list. As I say farewell to some fantasies--however ill-formed, or even ill-informed--I sometimes forget just how much better my overall experiences will be as a result. I feel very fortunate to be able to call on my fellow Fodorites for advice at this stage, before I invest to much time or energy into options that aren't realistic or may not be all that worthy. (And of course, I'm glad that I can call on everyone again when I try to nail down a more realistic plan.)
Best to you and yours over the holiday season and in 2013! I’ve been checking H&H’s web-site, hoping they’ll make it back to my neck of the woods sometime soon. Better not be while I’m away! Please send them my best wishes.
Dec 24th, 2012, 06:01 AM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will definitely take your recommendation about Interlaken under advisement, but I wonder if it might have changed since you were last there>
Well I believe tower was there very recently and I firmly believe that most folks who criticize Interlaken as tacky simply never get off yes the tacky main souvenir-shop-lined main drag and never see the really cute spots of town north and south of it - especially along the Aare River where tower's hotel is.
I love Interlaken and all its offerings and all in all it is one of the prettiest cities in Switzerland, IF you get off the main drag as many tourists do not then criticize it.
If on a budget Interlaken also has many many cheaper hotels than other cities or towns in the area and also has excellent transportation links - a great base not only for the Jungfrau Region but to hop to places like Lucerne, Bern and to do boat trips on either lake the lovingly bookend Interlaken.
Interlaken - I love it and it is one of my very favorite cities in Europe after annual or more frequent trips to Europe for decades now.
Now time to take cover and duck fire!
Well I believe tower was there very recently and I firmly believe that most folks who criticize Interlaken as tacky simply never get off yes the tacky main souvenir-shop-lined main drag and never see the really cute spots of town north and south of it - especially along the Aare River where tower's hotel is.
I love Interlaken and all its offerings and all in all it is one of the prettiest cities in Switzerland, IF you get off the main drag as many tourists do not then criticize it.
If on a budget Interlaken also has many many cheaper hotels than other cities or towns in the area and also has excellent transportation links - a great base not only for the Jungfrau Region but to hop to places like Lucerne, Bern and to do boat trips on either lake the lovingly bookend Interlaken.
Interlaken - I love it and it is one of my very favorite cities in Europe after annual or more frequent trips to Europe for decades now.
Now time to take cover and duck fire!
Dec 24th, 2012, 08:52 AM
#27
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this all said if it were my first visit to this wondrous area I would stay up in the hills, like in Grindelwald, my favorite mountain village in the area - no not as church mouse quiet as say Wengen or Murren, perpetual favorites among Fodorites which if looking for solitude are excellent bets - but Grindelwald offers stunning views of the glacier-girdled Jungfrau Massif that abruptly rises from the Grindelwald bowl - a wide valley streching miles either way but always up - you can see glaciers from town and even easily walk to them - but Grindelwald also has some action which I enjoy - especially legions of hikers and alpinists basing here.
And Grindelwald has an apres-ski or apres-hiking scene to for folks who like nightlife.
But the views cannot be beat and I think for a first-timer it is most awesome to base up in the hills - but Interlaken to me is now my favorite base because I like more real cities and it also has great views. The hotel I always stay at offers balcony views of the Jungfrau Massif seen across meadows - a more bucolic view than close up ones from like Grindelwald but unique in its own way.
And Grindelwald has an apres-ski or apres-hiking scene to for folks who like nightlife.
But the views cannot be beat and I think for a first-timer it is most awesome to base up in the hills - but Interlaken to me is now my favorite base because I like more real cities and it also has great views. The hotel I always stay at offers balcony views of the Jungfrau Massif seen across meadows - a more bucolic view than close up ones from like Grindelwald but unique in its own way.
Dec 24th, 2012, 10:02 AM
#28
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kja..thanks for your response. I speak of Interlaken as of three years ago, as Palenque says. Pictures speak a thousand word, so here are my amateur Swiss pix which include some pretty River Aare views, Lauterbrunnen, Grindelwald, Wengen, etc. Having been all the way to top levels of Jungfrau many decades ago, we skipped it on this trip.(This was October).
H and H are finalizing their spring tour and Syd would be most happy to see you again. I was in NYC a few days after Sandy hit but I made it to H and H performing in Brooklyn..a sweet and mellow show, Pete's Candy Store, small room. In the "off season" here in SoCal Syd sits in with one of our five Tower family bands..my oldest grandson's "Pullmen", also featured on the H and H web pages...they're pretty wild and you can click on one of their selections. Will notify you when H an H schedule is firm.
K...I'm sure your trip will come together like all of your plans do, and you'll do us all proud to follow your visit to uber-scenic Switzerland. Best wishes for happy holidays..then go back to serious work to finalize your plans!!Hear?
Stu
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...rOberland2009#
H and H are finalizing their spring tour and Syd would be most happy to see you again. I was in NYC a few days after Sandy hit but I made it to H and H performing in Brooklyn..a sweet and mellow show, Pete's Candy Store, small room. In the "off season" here in SoCal Syd sits in with one of our five Tower family bands..my oldest grandson's "Pullmen", also featured on the H and H web pages...they're pretty wild and you can click on one of their selections. Will notify you when H an H schedule is firm.
K...I'm sure your trip will come together like all of your plans do, and you'll do us all proud to follow your visit to uber-scenic Switzerland. Best wishes for happy holidays..then go back to serious work to finalize your plans!!Hear?
Stu
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...rOberland2009#
Dec 24th, 2012, 04:54 PM
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My sincere apologies to Interlaken and all who know and love it! Thanks, PalenQ and Stu, for correcting my misperceptions.
➢ PalenQ
And thanks, too, for confirming that despite Interlaken’s merits, it would make more sense for me to stay higher up.
➢ Tower
I so enjoy seeing the world through your eyes! Thanks for sharing your pics.
➢ PalenQ
And thanks, too, for confirming that despite Interlaken’s merits, it would make more sense for me to stay higher up.
➢ Tower
I so enjoy seeing the world through your eyes! Thanks for sharing your pics.
Dec 24th, 2012, 06:29 PM
#30
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks KJA...I've been scanning in my spare time, all of my pre-digital pics..and with the Picasa editing function, they come out quite passable.I think it's an effective way of familiarizing posters with various regions in countries throughout the world. In some cases I mix in pictures from way back when, to go along with the digitals...serves to help with comparisons between each era.
stu
stu
Dec 25th, 2012, 01:39 AM
#32
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The train stop for Muottas Muragl is right between (one stop away from either) Samedan and Pontresina. In case you stay in Pontresina it would be easier to check into your hotel, then head for Muottas Muragl.
There are two options for a hike/walk between Maloja and Silvaplana, on either side of the lakes. My first choice, however, would be the hike Muottas Muragl to Alp Languard (if funicular and chair lift are open).
There are two options for a hike/walk between Maloja and Silvaplana, on either side of the lakes. My first choice, however, would be the hike Muottas Muragl to Alp Languard (if funicular and chair lift are open).
Dec 25th, 2012, 12:09 PM
#33
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very interesting thread.
kja - it sounds like in some respects we have similar traveling styles, although the more I travel, the more I value several night stays -used as bases - rather than moving each night. So I have a question for you. It sounds like you plan to see several things 'on the way' between hotels. How do you manage your luggage when you do that? Obviously the parts where you have a car it's not much of an issue but when traveling by train it is. I travel with just one 20" rolling bag for month long trips but you can't really sight see even with that amount.
There are definite pros and cons to having base towns versus a new location each night, and you have pointed out the pros of the moving each night (no wasted time backtracking, seeing places at night and early morning, etc.). But in the case of the BO I think staying in Interlaken makes a lot of sense. The mountains are so weather dependent in order to get a good experience, if you plan just two or three days up in one of the mountain towns that most people advocate staying in, and then it's cloudy, then you are out of luck. We spent five nights in Interlaken and did three day trips into the mountains, and two days trips on the lake (to Bern, Thun, Spiez). Each morning we were able to look at the weather and decide if it was a 'mountain day' or not, and the days it wasn't we had good alternative of things to do. Would have been nice if it were sunny all five days, but it wasn't (we were there in July). Just something to think about.
kja - it sounds like in some respects we have similar traveling styles, although the more I travel, the more I value several night stays -used as bases - rather than moving each night. So I have a question for you. It sounds like you plan to see several things 'on the way' between hotels. How do you manage your luggage when you do that? Obviously the parts where you have a car it's not much of an issue but when traveling by train it is. I travel with just one 20" rolling bag for month long trips but you can't really sight see even with that amount.
There are definite pros and cons to having base towns versus a new location each night, and you have pointed out the pros of the moving each night (no wasted time backtracking, seeing places at night and early morning, etc.). But in the case of the BO I think staying in Interlaken makes a lot of sense. The mountains are so weather dependent in order to get a good experience, if you plan just two or three days up in one of the mountain towns that most people advocate staying in, and then it's cloudy, then you are out of luck. We spent five nights in Interlaken and did three day trips into the mountains, and two days trips on the lake (to Bern, Thun, Spiez). Each morning we were able to look at the weather and decide if it was a 'mountain day' or not, and the days it wasn't we had good alternative of things to do. Would have been nice if it were sunny all five days, but it wasn't (we were there in July). Just something to think about.
Dec 25th, 2012, 09:20 PM
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How I enjoy checking this thread each day and finding new gems each time--thanks one and all!
➢ tower
Effective, indeed! I know I’m not alone in finding your pictures a great introduction to many places.
➢ castlevisitor
Isn’t this board great!?! I’m glad this thread is proving useful to you, too. Feel free to jump in with what you are learning or wondering about, and if you start a thread of your own, do consider cross-linking it. Many happy travels!
➢ ingo
Again, many thanks! The hike from Muottas Muragl to Alp Languard looks very appealing. If I’m reading correctly, it’s not too difficult and would likely take maybe 2 or 3 hours? Sounds perfect for the day I go to the top of Muottas Muragl; I’m very glad you brought my attention to it. (And it sounds better than the Philosophenweg, which I had been considering. Do you agree?)
The hike I read about (so far) from Maloja to Silvaplana is described as about 14 km, taking 3 or 3.5 hours, passing through Segl-Maria before reaching the western edge of Lake Silvaplana. Since I’m looking for relatively easy, scenic hikes of 4 hours or less, I thought it made sense to consider. Do you recommend the hike along one side of the lakes as opposed to the other?
➢ Isabel
Hi, Isabel - I know we’ve traveled to many of the same places, and I have a deep admiration for your talent with a camera: Your photographs always either bring fond memories to mind or inspire future journeys. Thanks so much for sharing them!
One of the things about traveling in Switzerland that I greatly appreciate is that many/most train stations there have luggage lockers and/or left luggage desks. And you can even find out which stations have these services, the hours of left-luggage desks, and the dimensions and numbers of lockers on-line. Makes visiting places en route an option! (BTW, I haven’t yet checked all of my proposed stops, so I may be overly optimistic about some of the en-route visits I’m considering at this point.)
Thanks for adding your observations to the range of opinions I’ve been receiving about where to stay in the Bernese Oberland. I am hoping to stay long enough wherever I end up to maximize my chance of at least one clear day. I definitely have lots of options for other enjoyable activities. I’m still weighing my options….
➢ tower
Effective, indeed! I know I’m not alone in finding your pictures a great introduction to many places.
➢ castlevisitor
Isn’t this board great!?! I’m glad this thread is proving useful to you, too. Feel free to jump in with what you are learning or wondering about, and if you start a thread of your own, do consider cross-linking it. Many happy travels!
➢ ingo
Again, many thanks! The hike from Muottas Muragl to Alp Languard looks very appealing. If I’m reading correctly, it’s not too difficult and would likely take maybe 2 or 3 hours? Sounds perfect for the day I go to the top of Muottas Muragl; I’m very glad you brought my attention to it. (And it sounds better than the Philosophenweg, which I had been considering. Do you agree?)
The hike I read about (so far) from Maloja to Silvaplana is described as about 14 km, taking 3 or 3.5 hours, passing through Segl-Maria before reaching the western edge of Lake Silvaplana. Since I’m looking for relatively easy, scenic hikes of 4 hours or less, I thought it made sense to consider. Do you recommend the hike along one side of the lakes as opposed to the other?
➢ Isabel
Hi, Isabel - I know we’ve traveled to many of the same places, and I have a deep admiration for your talent with a camera: Your photographs always either bring fond memories to mind or inspire future journeys. Thanks so much for sharing them!
One of the things about traveling in Switzerland that I greatly appreciate is that many/most train stations there have luggage lockers and/or left luggage desks. And you can even find out which stations have these services, the hours of left-luggage desks, and the dimensions and numbers of lockers on-line. Makes visiting places en route an option! (BTW, I haven’t yet checked all of my proposed stops, so I may be overly optimistic about some of the en-route visits I’m considering at this point.)
Thanks for adding your observations to the range of opinions I’ve been receiving about where to stay in the Bernese Oberland. I am hoping to stay long enough wherever I end up to maximize my chance of at least one clear day. I definitely have lots of options for other enjoyable activities. I’m still weighing my options….
Dec 26th, 2012, 12:48 AM
#36
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The hike Muottas Muragl to Alp Languard is definitely more scenic/better than the Philosophenweg. I'd calculate 3 hours with the photos stops and maybe a picnic somewhere along the way. Please note: Both Muottas Muragl (funicular) and Alp Languard (chair lift) start summer season on 08 June.
As for the hike Maloja - Silvaplana: I guess what you're talking about is a part of the "Via Engiadina" - along the western side of the valley. I'd say it takes closer to 3 - 3.30 hours. Yes, it's a quite nice hike, but not the most scenic IMO. However, that early in the season the most scenic hikes are not doable, unfortunately. So it seems to be a good choice.
As for the hike Maloja - Silvaplana: I guess what you're talking about is a part of the "Via Engiadina" - along the western side of the valley. I'd say it takes closer to 3 - 3.30 hours. Yes, it's a quite nice hike, but not the most scenic IMO. However, that early in the season the most scenic hikes are not doable, unfortunately. So it seems to be a good choice.
Dec 26th, 2012, 08:55 PM
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
➢ Ingo
Again, invaluable feedback--thanks so much! I will definitely keep that date in mind as I plan my travels.
➢ PalenQ
I hope you don’t mind if I follow up on some comments you made on another thread:
• You mentioned the Chocolate Train. I haven’t crossed that off my list, and even if I do, I’m considering whether/where to include a cheese or chocolate-making demonstration somewhere on my journey. I generally find “how-to” demos interesting—I always learn a lot, and the tastings often include some delicious tidbits. But the train and its two demos sound a bit “Willy Wonka-esque” (even if I didn’t think of that label until you supplied it). Still, it sounds like you can see their merits. Any further comments?
• I hadn’t considered hopping on the Golden Pass for a quick trip from Montreux to Gstaad and back—what an interesting idea! If I have a clear day, I can imagine enjoying that. If I do, does it matter whether I actually get the Golden Pass, rather than other trains on that route? And should I make sure I go as far as Gstaad?
Thanks in advance!
Again, invaluable feedback--thanks so much! I will definitely keep that date in mind as I plan my travels.
➢ PalenQ
I hope you don’t mind if I follow up on some comments you made on another thread:
• You mentioned the Chocolate Train. I haven’t crossed that off my list, and even if I do, I’m considering whether/where to include a cheese or chocolate-making demonstration somewhere on my journey. I generally find “how-to” demos interesting—I always learn a lot, and the tastings often include some delicious tidbits. But the train and its two demos sound a bit “Willy Wonka-esque” (even if I didn’t think of that label until you supplied it). Still, it sounds like you can see their merits. Any further comments?
• I hadn’t considered hopping on the Golden Pass for a quick trip from Montreux to Gstaad and back—what an interesting idea! If I have a clear day, I can imagine enjoying that. If I do, does it matter whether I actually get the Golden Pass, rather than other trains on that route? And should I make sure I go as far as Gstaad?
Thanks in advance!
Dec 27th, 2012, 09:38 PM
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just realized that a day-trip from Montreux to Gstaad and back would make no sense for me. But if the weather is good, it might make a lot of sense for me to take the scenic Goldenpass (or other train on that route) from Montreux to Gstaad and then a train from Gstaad to Gruyeres.
Dec 28th, 2012, 09:37 AM
#40
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But the train and its two demos sound a bit “Willy Wonka-esque”>
I have actually never take the official Chocolate Train itself but taken regular trains over the same route - visiting the cheese factory in Gruyeres on my own - it is a self-visit type thing and touring the factory with groups that show up.
The Chocolate train is rather expensive with a hefty supplement so I decided to do it on my own - the train cars are Belle Epoque vintage ones and there are trappings of luxury that I do not care for. So I do not know what the cheese and chocolate experiences are on the train and you can do the trip yourself on other trains.
To me the factory tour was OK but not worth going out of my way for - taking the Golden Pass to Gstaad and Gruyeres and back to Lausanne from there makes sense - spend as long as you wish in the wondrously gorgeous town of Gruyeres.
I have actually never take the official Chocolate Train itself but taken regular trains over the same route - visiting the cheese factory in Gruyeres on my own - it is a self-visit type thing and touring the factory with groups that show up.
The Chocolate train is rather expensive with a hefty supplement so I decided to do it on my own - the train cars are Belle Epoque vintage ones and there are trappings of luxury that I do not care for. So I do not know what the cheese and chocolate experiences are on the train and you can do the trip yourself on other trains.
To me the factory tour was OK but not worth going out of my way for - taking the Golden Pass to Gstaad and Gruyeres and back to Lausanne from there makes sense - spend as long as you wish in the wondrously gorgeous town of Gruyeres.
