my friend and I will be meeting in florence on August 7th. We will be using trains for our travel. Please let us know your honest opinion or make sugegstions for other areas instead that we can consider.

August 7 -arrive Florence stay for 3 nights
(this includes day trips to hillside)
August 10 -arrive in milan tour area
-sleep at lake como for one night
11th -spend day at lake como and area
-train to nice, spend night in Nice
12th&13th - Nice
-13th nice to Paris (easyjet)
13th-16th -Paris (3 nights)
17th Not sure if Paris to Bonn (with friend in Bonn 2 nights) 19th OR paris to amsterdam (still to be worked out)
20th - from one of those two cities to to Berlin or munich?? 2 nights.
22nd - salzburg 2 nights
24th -lausanne, switzerland 4 nights (stay with family)
28 -back to toronto!
are we crunching things too much? If you had to choose would it be berlin or munich?
The best would be to go to amsterdam fist and then bonn to berlin or munich..Advice please!!
Renata

I would probably like to see less 2 night stays (more of at least 3 nights).

You will be constantly checking in and out, running around and wasting time.

Renata

You sound like a very sociable person, who hopes to rendezvous with many people during your trip. I'm going to assume your dates with your family and friends aren't too fixed, because that will make things very problematic.

May I gently point out that your itinerary involves a fair degree of backtracking to and fro. You hope to cover a bit of Italy, Switzerland, France, and maybe (maybe) Holland in just 21 nights, which is fine, but you want to keep that path in as straight a line as possible. Say, start in Florence, head to Milan/Lake Como, move north into Switzerland to see your friends, then head north along the Rhine to Bonn/Cologne to see your other friend; once you have that portion of your itinerary worked out, you can decide then whether you want to see Paris and environs, or Amsterdam or if you can possibly do both. This is not the trip for Berlin - way out of your way - and even Munich and Salzburg would require you to make a jog east, whereas your rendezvous in Lausanne and Bonn is taking you westward, not to mention Paris.

Hi Renata,

I agree with both of the above.

I think this is overly ambitious as well as too much time on the train. I would cut out Salzburg and spend more time in Berlin. I wouldn't try to fit in Amsterdam. If you have a freind in Bonn - take advantage of that.

I agree with everyone. I am afraid you will return home and remember nothing but packing your suitcase. You must try staying in Cities a minimum of four days and smaller places two or three. Also you are making this trip in August, the worst time of year to travel!. You are hitting very crowded spots like Florence, Nice, etc. You don't mention how you are traveling except the easyjet flight. But driving is crowded this time of year, and airports take a lot of time. Trains that take you into the center of the city are easiest, if you travel light, but you are covering many different regions, requiring a lot of clothes. I am afraid you have not allowed for travel time. Never stop for one night! Two or three nights in one country is crazy! Is Salzburg necessary? Toss out the German stops. Skip Amsterdam! That is not fun. Try looking at places near your scheduled cities. Enjoy Como longer or certainly the region, Paris longer, and I love the idea of ending in Lausanne. What you want to remember next winter in Toronto, was that afternoon you sat with friends on lake Como, or that evening at the Louvre after everyone has gone home. It is the small stuff, the finds, the savoring that will make your trip. As with all things pleasure takes time. I don't know your age, but I would like to see your trip wind up from Florence to Como, Nice and then spend more time in France. Bonn will be expensive and no fun. Why not have your friend meet you in Paris. After this point your trip becomes a little unexplainable. In 5 days you plan on visiting three countries and ending up in Lausanne! Have you looked at a map?
I live and work in Europe and I don't think I could make this trip unless I was training for a marathon and trying to avoid sleeping in hotels, eating in restaurants and seeing anything at all.
Also - If you are planning on staying in Italy in August, you better have your accomodation booked soon if not already.

Good Luck - Buy a michelin map.

hello there,
this is exactly why I posted this message. I needed opinions so thank you!!
sarona- I mentioned that we are travelling by train we have bought a eurail pass. does this change your comments a tad
I do realize that especially after Paris our itinerary is overly ambitious. We have looked at a map and realize that seeing munich or berlin from amsterdam is VERY looong that is why I am hoping we can leave from Bonn.
I just wanted to let you know what our interests are but there is definitely room to remove things!!! Its both our first time and of course we feel like we want to see it all but we do NOT want to be exhausted. If anyone had the choice between munich and berlin which would you choose? we have left switz to the end because that is where I have to catch my plane anyway so I don't want to have to go twice.
Staying longer in lake como was also an idea I had and take some other stuff out...anyone know of some low budget hotels/hostels (hope fully no more than 60-70 euros double accomodations?) what are some things you can share about things to do there?
my friend and I are 26 years old. both fluent in italian and spanish.
thanks again for the thoughts. we will see what can be adjusted!!

Hello again Renata

I'll get the bad news over with first:

You can either tailor your flight plan to fit your itinerary, or you can tailor your itinerary to fit your flight plan, but you canna' do both, lassie, as the Scotsman said! That's burning the candle at both ends! I would have urged you to follow the first option, but you mention that you "have to catch your plane home from Switz anyway" so I assume this means you have already booked your flight, including your arrival in Florence. So we have to start from there, and not just anywhere, and live with those constraints.

Let's say you want your stops to be no more than 3.5 hours apart on average if you don't want to be spending all your time on the train.

Florence to Venice - 3 hrs
Venice to Innsbruck - 5 hours plus
Innsbruck to Munich - 2 hours
Munich to Frankfurt - 5 hours (scenic route)
Frankfurt to Koln/Bonn - 3 hours on the slow scenic train, otherwise 2
Koln to oh, Heidelberg - 3 (?) hours
Heidelberg to Lausanne- 5.5 (?) hours
Lausanne to Zurich? Geneva? airport - 2.5 hours
total: 29.0 hours, 8 segments, average 3.6 hours each.

Now for your nights per place
Florence - 3
Venice - 3 (expensive place, watch out)
Innsbruck - 2
Munich - 3
Frankfurt or nearby - 1
Koln/Bonn - 2 subtotal 14
Heidelberg - 2
Lausanne - 4
Geneva or Zurich to fly home - 1
Total 21

Paris is 14 hours round trip from Koln, ditto Berlin. Amsterdam is 6 hours roundtrip from Koln/Bonn. Fitting any of those in is going to be tricky.

Now what are your thoughts?

Night # - Place
1 - Florence
2 - Florence
3 - Florence
4 - Como
5 - Como
6 - Nice
7 - Paris
8 - Paris
9 - Paris
10 - Paris
11 - Bonn
12 - Bonn
13 - Munich
14 - Munich
15 - Munich
16 - Salzburg
17 - Salzburg
18 - Lausanne
19 - Lausanne
20 - Lausanne
21 - Lausanne

Well that would be my recommendation. I think that Sarona is wrong and that spending 4+ days or 2+ days in the large/small cities is not a necessity. It all depends on the place, and on your energy levels. While I think a place like Paris definitely deserves 4 nights, I think a spot like Florence does not. Another example is that Munich doesn't "need" 4 nights, and Salzburg can be easily seen in a day.

So basically to explain the itinerary I wrote: three days in Florence is plenty. Two to see Florence and one to spend in a town nearby (which I would say should absolutely be Siena). Two days in Como will suffice, and will be nice relaxation after busy Florence. Drop Milan, the duomo is scaffolded and La Scala is closed. Besides, after Florence you probably won't want to zoom around another big city for an afternoon.

Keep in mind that Como to Nice is a LONG train ride, so I personally would cut that from the itinerary. Besides, Ryanair flies Milan (Bergamo)-Paris. I would add the extra day to Paris or Como (depends on which you are in the mood for, city energy or lake relaxation).

Four days in Paris should be enough to get a good feel of the city plus see a good number of cool sites. Three is kinda short. I would go see your friends in Bonn instead of going to Amsterdam, not only is it cool to hang with friends but it makes much better logistical sense. Bonn is about 4 hours closer to Munich (Amsterdam-Munich is a 9 hour ride). Berlin is wayyyy out there and wouldn't really fit into this itinerary, thus I would choose Munich. Especially since Salzburg is practically a suburb of Munich, relative to Berlin.

Three days in Munich is plenty, it's a great city. Enjoy the beer, Augustiner is Munich's beer of choice. Salzburg is real close to Munich, only 2 hours on train. I saw it as a daytrip, and felt like I saw plenty. There is enough there to keep you busy for 2 days though, definitely.
Finally train down to Lausanne for that last 4 nights with the family.

I think this would be (imo) the best possible itinerary. It requires a decent bit of energy, but it isn't really "sprinting" around like your first itinerary would have been

Good luck! Drink a mass for me in Munich.

Dear Renata,

IMHO you are still doing too much. Unless you expect to die within the next year, you will get back to Europe.

Get out a map. Work out how to make a circle from Florence to your departure city.

Three nights in Florence is not enough. You want to see Florence and make a couple of day trips - Siena, Pisa and Lucca, Orvieto come to mind.

You ought to do a couple of nights in Venice.

Sue has a nice itinerary.

I'm of the opinion that 3 nights in Florence is plenty. That's 1 day to see Siena and 2 to see Florence (which is more than sufficient). Florence isn't my favorite place in Italy though so that might cloud my judgement.

The circle idea is great, especially when you fly into/out of the same city, but as long as you are going in a somewhat straight line and not backtracking, then you're OK.

The chart I've been using was a bit pessimistic about the time from Bonn to Paris.

You could exchange Venice for Paris this way:

Florence (3 nights)
3 hours to Verona (1)
3 hours to Innsbruck (1)
2 hours to Munich (3)
5 to Frankfurt or nearby Rhine town (1)
2 to Bonn (2)
4.5 hours to Paris: (4)
5.0 hrs Paris to Geneva-Lausanne: (4)
24.5 hours total in 7 segments, 3.5 hours average each.

This leaves you 2 nights to play with, one of which might have to be Zurich if you are flying from there. I'd forget Easyjet or Ryanair; by the time you get to their departure points, not to mention from the arrival airports into town, you're not saving time. Besides, you have a railpass - take advantage of it.