betty8

I got my handbag snatched in Naples by a guy on a scooter. It was late at night in a fairly empty street in the centre of town. My husband and I were walking back to our hotel. We were crossing the road and he came from behind us on his motor bike and grabbed my bag and sped off. The taxi drivers were also always trying to rip us off. Reporting it at the Police Station was a hoot - luckily we had a police officer to translate but the paperwork........! took quite a bit of time. Pity - I like Naples but there are some weird characters around you have to be very wary

AAFrequentFlyer

<b>logos</b>,

Allow me to disassociate my self from <b>ronnie</b>. I hardly ever agree with his point of view or the way s/he expresses their view.

Having said that, I have to say you are much misinformed about the poor inner city neighborhoods in US.

There are many prominent and well known Americans that came out of poor projects. A US Army erneral, a Chief of Staff and later US Secretary of State came out of one such neighborhood. A single mom, living in gang infested, drug infested projects, yet she pushed her son to take all the available opportunities and he sure did. There are many more stories like his.

So for you to say that the people born into a poor area in US have no chance is somewhat ludicrous. It's about family support, it's about self drive. The opportunities do exist, one just has to want it and take advantage of it.

AAFrequentFlyer

oh, one more thought,

can we also discuss how the poor (mostly blacks) in UK or France or Germany are treated?

I do recall some violent riots in Paris just recently.

The Turks and Africans in Germany are not exactly feeling safe these days.

etc.etc.

so to say that the inner city poor neighborhoods is just a US problem and is the direct result of the administration is showing your lack of knowledge about the world.

logos999

It's the result of the attitudes of a majority of the american people and the prior administrations, nothing more, nothing less. It's cheaper to ignore the problems that to tackle them when a majority isn't affected at all.
Fortunately here, people that can't afford to make a living at least get some help. Huge inequalities in living conditions don't exist because of high taxes and subsidies for poorer people (whatever background they have).

logos999

I know a number of folks with turkish roots, no never heard anybody mentioning a feeling of being unsafe because of that

AAFrequentFlyer

ok logos,

you are definitely <b>wordly</b>

it's ironic, but in many ways you are a lot like <b>ronnie</b>

oh, the irony!

logos999

Another thought, what about the people that don't have any self drive to take the opportunities or are just crazy or too lazy to care for themselves r have just given up. Do they really deserve to live in such a neighborhood?

logos999

Well, AAFrequentFlyer not knowing much about Europe doesn't make you an expert either You know a many nice words too.

ronnie36

&quot;Yes, that's exactly the society's fault. They're wealthy enough to do better, it is a states duty to help those in need and protect the citizens from harm. Maybe the next administration will do better. Gun control!!, better welfare, and no tax breaks for people that don't need them. &quot;

Wrong. It's a state's(read fellow taxpayers) duty to help those in need who can't help themsleves, such at the elderly, disabled etc. The cops do patrol high crime areas and arrest people also. It is not the state's(hence taxpayer's duty) to help the irresponsible. It is an individual's duty to be a productive citizen yet the poor who are irresponsible get a lot of welfare from the productive, far more than they should. Also gun laws will only take guns out of law abiding citizens, not the criminals. You are in no position to point fingers at the US as Europe as many problems with muslims and africans and others. You don't have nor understand our situation. Take care of your own problems.

logos999

&gt;It is not the state's duty [...] to help the irresponsible.
Of course it is, responsible or not, the person is a human being too.

ronnie36

&quot;It's the result of the attitudes of a majority of the american people and the prior administrations, nothing more, nothing less. It's cheaper to ignore the problems that to tackle them when a majority isn't affected at all. &quot;

People have spent billions on the underserving here but there are many people you can't do anything with. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Seriously, Logos999, you are so naive, you don't have the situaton in your country so don't lecture others.

&quot;Fortunately here, people that can't afford to make a living at least get some help. Huge inequalities in living conditions don't exist because of high taxes and subsidies for poorer people (whatever background they have). '

Well, the europeans don't like it one bit paying benefits for africans and muslims who have large families. As I said, you don't understand the situation in the US because you don't have it.It's really annoying to have the naive who don't know what they are talking about lecture you. Please shut up.

AAFrequentFlyer

My hard earned money is not suppose to support people that are too lazy to do anything for themselves.

I have no problem whatsoever with some of my money helping people that are temporarily down on their luck, but I do have a HUGE problem just throwing money at people that have no drive or are just plain lazy.

Actually, throwing money at people just because, has been proven to have just the opposite effect and some sociologists believe it's very demeaning and counterproductive in many ways.

ronnie36

&quot;&gt;It is not the state's duty [...] to help the irresponsible.
Of course it is, responsible or not, the person is a human being too.&quot;

So if I sit around and smoke dope all day, have 10 out of wedlock kids I can't afford and stop bothering to go to school, you should hand part of your paycheck over to me even though I'm perfectly capable of working and being productive and responsible? LOL

logos999

&gt;should hand part of your paycheck
Yes, it's as simple as that!! and it's not really that much. And if people finally manage to take away the guns from everybody except law enforement, you'll end up with less violence everywhere.

AAFrequentFlyer

I meant


MANY sociologists, not some

stated that throwing money at people just because is demeaning, in many ways racist, and counterproductive.



Few years ago a visionary Wisconsin Governor changed the way things were being done in his state and it got everybodies attention all over the country.

Simply, he told everybody on welfare that the state will only give them so much, for so long, but if they want to improve their lives, the state is prepared to provide the following:

free child care

if the parent(s) are willing to get education and/or jobs

pay for education

pay for medical treatments during

help with job placement

etc.


Many of the welfare folks were grateful and improved their lives but of course there were few that just didn't want to do anything.

That's my idea of helping others.

If you just want to throw money into the black hole, be my guest.

logos999

&gt;into the black hole
It's the way it's done here, and yes it works rather well. People are not criminal be nature.

AAFrequentFlyer

works rather well

yeah right, whatever.....

logos999

Oh well, if ignorance was a virtue, some folks here were angels. ;-)

AAFrequentFlyer

if ignorance was a virtue....


look in the mirror.....

logos999

Thanks for calling me an angel, (indeed I am)! O

Well it may be the firm restraints of your thinking patterns may change sometime, you should never give up hope! It least I won't give you up