FauxSteMarie, I agree with you completely that American schools should encourage bilinguilism and teach children a foreign language. Not just grammar, but conversation! I suppose one of the problems is that Americans just don't have the chance to practice what they learn, for the most part,unless they live in a city with a large Spanish community, like I do here in Miami. I could use Spanish everyday here. However, I also agree that trying to learn two languages is confusing. I love the French language, as well as traveling in France. I might just try to learn a little basic Spanish (although, truthfully I don't much like that language).

ninasdream, I think I do have the $50 off for the Pimsleur Spanish set. In fact, I already have the beginner set (with only a couple of tapes) that was sent to me some time ago for free. One of my French tapes was no good, and the company immediately sent me a replacement, along with the Spanish ones.

Do you know that there is a program whereby you send back the Pimsleur Level and they give you a considerable credit on the next level. I did all 3 levels. I won't bore you if you already are aware of it.
BTW I am getting a complimentary French lesson with www.MYPLT.com
They match you up with a private tutor and you converse etc. over the internet by Skype at a prearranged time. I will report back after the experience. The lady I have is a parisian living in Virginia.

Suze4 - oh good!
When I got my French program, I thought it was a little elementary, I made fun- it seemed to center on being asked to meals (did you notice the women are never hungry?). And yet, on my first day in Paris I had to ask for the exact intersection from the dialogs to get from my hotel to Luxembrg Gardens! And when a new friend asked if I was hungry after walking for a few hours, I responded reflexively, Non, mais je veux boire quelque chose - right out of the dialogs! The programs work.

I'm sorry if I am repeating something someone already said but I didn't have time to read all the responses.
I love the Pimsler tapes, the repetition works especially well for someone who keeps forgetting. I was just in France for two weeks and thought that my French had improved. I do also take classes at a JC but we don't speak enough so the constant repitions work well as a reinforcment.

I also bought them on Amazon, I bought the used ones, which were half the price ($125) and came new, sealed, from the publisher...go figure?

You got a deal on those Pimsleur CD's if you only paid $125. I paid about $175 on some site on the internet for Spanish 1, 2, & 3 and about the same for Italian 1 & 2 and Russian 1, 2, & 3. The Spanish Plus, I think, was about $89 (only 5 lessons).

The bottom line is that I love Pimsleur. It gives you working tourist vocabulary and you do well with it once you get overseas.

What am I going to do when I finish Spanish Plus? I guess I'll have to do Living Language even though, in my opinion, it is not as good. I just wish there was a Pimsleur Spanish 4 & 5 but I guess there is not a market for that.

I did find that it was easier to get a deal on the first series in any language then on subsequent series. It is obvious that most people just do the first series and stop.

Just to bring everyone up to date - Pimsleur has changed considerably in its methods of delivery. A couple of years ago they were only available in cassette or CD. This is the most expensive if purchased new.
Now you can download it directly from the internet at about $150 a level (3 levels) or order book chips at a few dollars less than that. Book chips work in your iPod or other MP3 player. A third method is to order the first level, use it and send it back for a partial credit on level 2, etc.
Of course there is used and ebay to further reduce costs.

My hunch is there will be a fire sale on CD's at some point as people switch to IPOD's and MP3 players for this sort of thing. When that happens, buy everything that you need on CD if you can get a deal. I don't like to send my CD's back because I might want to use them again after a bit to refresh my memory.

I am on Spanish 3, Lesson 28. I should finish Spanish 3 next week or so and move on to Spanish Plus.

Does anyone know if there is anything beyond the first 3 levels in French (Pimsleur)? Like a "French Plus"?

You have discovered the big Pimsleur weakness. Most agree that once you are finished 1-3, you are still very much a beginner. Others have wrestled with this and this site might help:

http://tinyurl.com/2t2osv

I floundered around for over two years with several alternatives, and am currently trying private tutoring as I mentioned above.

Spanish and French have a "Plus" series to follow series 3. It is 5 CD's with 10 lessons. I should finish Spanish 3 and begin Spanish Plus sometime this up coming weekend. While I certainly will not be fluent at the end of the Pimsleur CD's, I will move on to Living Language, Rosetta Stone and the Foreign Service Program. I have actually been working with the last two while doing Pimsleur. You cannot become fluent without some time in a Spanish speaking country where you will be forced to speak the language. I might consider a short term immersion program in Mexico or Costa Rica at some point.

All these language programs end at some point. They all have their strengths and their weaknesses.

I would think that after 3 courses of all audio with no visual, it would be time to get into a course that includes reading and writing (the way children move to the written word after learning to speak.)

My first Italian instruction was with a tutor (4 years of Spanish in high school and college prepared me to learn." Then I got the LIVING LANGUAGE Italian cds and book, which was good as far as I went with it, which hasn't been far enough. Also have the Transparent Language Italian CDroms but have never given them a fair try.

Any method needs effort and repitition. Years ago I got the Foreign Service Institute Course in French and I still know the first dialogue by heart (as I do some of those early high school Spanish ones) - but I think the FSI is both outmoded and outdaqted, especially in teaching many rather archaic or superficially formal constructs, such as, "Je suis hereux de faire votre connaissance." instead of "Enchante" or another easier way of saying 'Gladtameetya'. (Hope my French spelling isn't too far off.)

I like to know what the word IS, what it looks like and is made of, not just by sound but as a construction. For instance, I learned "maintenant" was "now" in a flash because it looks like "maintenance", and NOW is when maintenance should be done. (And of course, French is the source of the word in English ... just as "maintener" means "to maintain".) Voila!

tomas - good point.
Any educator will tell you that there are various learning styles and Pimsleur is great if you are an auditory learner. If, however, learn better by visually seeing or by doing (writing) Pimsleur has little to offer.
Furthermore understanding structure - grammatical and otherwise - fixates learning for adults. eg. I would think that any use of the past tense in French would require some sort of introduction to past imperfect vs passe compose, however grammar is never mentioned in Pimsleur.
I was disappointed that Pimsleur spent almost half of the examples using the familiar "tu" as opposed to vous - travellers just aren't going to run into the familiar that often.

I think your criticism of the over use of the familiar "tu" in Pimsleur is a good one. However, I was in Chile last November while I was about half way through series II and I could get around quite well. I even translated something a couple of times.

What you learn from Pimsleur is simple tourist conversation. You are not going to finish Pimsleur and be prepared for a discussion on philosophy.

I am actually considering doing Mandarin Chinese just out of personal interest. I would like to travel to China someday.

But, first, I'd like to get better with Spanish. By the way, I am now about to finish series 3 and move on to the 5 Spanish plus CD's.

When breaking out of the class work, something to try reading a bit of are magazines - things like Hello! etc, that are full of ads and short captions, photos etc. Newspapers, as my Italian tutor told me, are more confusing than helpful for a beginner. But advertising ... definitely the vernacular of the people! Of course, if the grammar is as bad as it sometimes is in American ad copy, we might pick up some peculiar habits.

I listened to Pimsleur for a year while commuting and had the same problem. On my second day in Italy, I realized I knew next-to-nothing! Two women I met on my trip that spoke Italian well swore by Michel Thomas CDs. Now I have them and I am on lesson 16. I think they are much better. Still, no written word, but he does at least spell some of the words sometimes, and he gives explanations of the origin of a word, or gives a tip to help remember it.

Unlike you, I found the Pimsleur CD's to be of great use in Italy. I was midway through Italian 2 when I went. Someone even asked if I were Italian because they figured, if I knew a little, I must be. Ha!

What are Michael Thomas' CD's called? Is there a link to his CD's so I can have a look at them? Thanks.

Although I'm also a "visual" learner, I do like the Pimsleur series. It actually takes you back to the way you learned a language as a child--hear, listen, and speak before you learn to read and/or write.

Well Lori - that sounds like it is right from the Pimsleur introduction. Mom uses visual learning to teach language. (shows an item while repeating its name a billion times) Besides you are an adult and won't have every waking hour for immersion.
Newcomers to a country always relate how they watch television, read newspapers, watch subtitled movies to learn a language.
Ever heard of Hooked on Phonics, Leap Pad, computers?

Here are Pimsleur's claims after the completion of Level 3 - just ain't so. Especially look at the last 3 or 4

- Level 3 will increase your vocabulary and grammatical structures and triple your spoken proficiency. - Upon completion of a level 3, you will be able to participate in most informal and some formal discussions on practical, social, and some semi-professional topics,
- form longer sentences while maintaining the target language syntax,
- be understood even by native speakers unused to dealing with foreigners,
- handle increasingly difficult grammatical structures,
- enjoy fluent conversations with a variety of strangers,
- have a near-native accent, and the subtleties of the language will be apparent in your speech,
- read at the same level at which you speak.

Pimsleur claims may be excessive, but once you see the word you will tend to americanize the pronunciation. Somehow your mind refuses to see those French silent consonants as really silent.