I'm working with the German and Arabic Pimsleur CDs right now and have concluded that I also need to transcribe parts of the lessons in order to progress. (You are probably thinking German and Arabic at the same time? Are you insane? Did I mention that I'm living in Paris right now and also coping daily with "life as an ongoing vocabulary lesson"? But I digress.)

I don't transcribe everything in sequence, but I do transcribe the new words and challenging new combinations of words. I translate phonetically at first. With Arabic, that's as far as I can go because I can't read Arabic script very well yet. With German, however, I use a dictionary after the lesson to convert my phonetic translation into the correct spelling. Luckily, I have a German colleague down the hall, so when I get stuck I can ask him a question. I try to balance the memory work with references to the written transcript, because I realise that it's important to get the sounds imprinted in your brain just as it's important to me to get a picture of the word imprinted behind my eyes.

I'm also taking a German course at work, so I'm learning the basics of grammar at the same time. I'm not the brightest student in the class, but my pronunciation is spot-on.

(But that in itself is a challenge because the default language of explanation when German doesn't work is French. Imagine sitting there in class doing dictees of German numbers and then being asked (or listening to someone else) recite the numbers back, first in German and then in French.

Oddly, it does help to do two languages using Pimsleur at the same time because they use almost the same dialogue. I'm a little further ahead in German than Arabic, and I expect to find it entertaining when the American man asks the young Arabic woman if she'd like to come for a drink at his place.

Kate - I am impressed! Two (no three) languages at once! Wow! I could never do it - I am struggling with just trying to learn one.

Sally

Sally, I agree with you and others regarding needing to SEE the words. However, the Pimsleur (French) tapes have worked wonders for me in learning to actually SPEAK the language. But I had already taken years (YEARS ago!)of French, when grammar and reading were the main thing, not conversation. These tapes, which I work on frequently in the morning with my coffee, helped me bring it all together. I'm not sure I would want to start a new language this way, but Pimsleur sure did it for me with French.

In fact, I've debated buying the Spanish tapes for my granddaughter (a junior in high school) who has taken alot of Spanish in school, but hesitates to speak it. And she has a father who is fluent in Spanish and a grandmother whose first language is Spanish! However, I don't know when she would have the time(or motivation) to work on it, so I won't waste my money on that just yet.

My bottom line - use the Pimsleur tapes, but supplement them with some additional lessons (Alliance Francaise or such)first. Excuse me, Alliance Francaise is for only French, and I know there are lots of other languages!

For the non-French who rely on the written word, what does this mean: Dobeuliou. I'll give the context if you cannot figure it out.

LOL Kate - Yes, that girl is a tart in nearly every language. I'm studying the Arabic one as well but just started. I've been wondering what she's going to say too.

The Romanian woman turned down a drink at the bar and asked to go back to his hotel! The CD didn't offer the Romanian word for floozy.

I swear by Pimsleur. Most of the rants involve people not being able to understand the lessons on the first go round. I have found that I have to repeat the lessons--sometimes 4 or 5 times to entirely "get" the language.

I am currently working with the Spanish CD's and am on series 4, lesson 22. Lesson 21 was played 5 times before I moved on. I am also using Rosetta Stone, but I find it easier to just do my daily Spanish when I am in the car and in the midst of "dead" time.

I do plan on finishing all the Pimsleur CD's for Spanish (there is a short "plus" series of 5 CD's for Spanish & French in addition to the usual 3 series). Then I will have to figure out where I go from there. The point is to learn enough to be able to assist Spanish speaking clients with some basic information. Even if I will never be "tagged" as a Spanish speaking attorney, some Spanish skills would be very helpful in what I do.

Because so much Spanish is spoken in and around Washington, DC, where I live, I make a conscious effort to listen on, say, the subway and see if I can over hear any Spanish and understand it. I can understand bits and pieces now and have seen real progress.

If you use any of these programs, you must use the program DAILY and you must be patient. I have been working with the Spanish CD's for several months. I see too many posts from folks who want more or less instant ability to speak a foreign language. That is impossible. Unless you are a kid in a school immersion program or you live in a foreign country where you MUST speak the language constantly, learning a language is a lot of work and you must put the time in to do it.

I have also, in the past, used all 3 Pimsleur Russian series before a trip to Russia (I had some Russian in high school and had a long forgotten foundation) and 2 series of the Italian CD's before a trip to Italy. I keep the CD's by the way, as I may want to review them at some point.

As you can see, I am a big fan of Pimsleur. Yes, the materials are expensive (and written transcripts would be nice), but, if you had the time and a constant window in your schedule to take, say, a university course, that would be expensive too. With Pimsleur I basically can do things at my own pace and whenever I am in the car during the day. The Pimsleur lessons are great, but you MUST work on it CONSISTENTLY or you are wasting your money and time.

As a former full graduate fellowship holder in German, and someone who can get by, and or speak/read 6 languages, I recommend the Living Language series of foreign language instruction. My 4 4 closest friends and I, all of us former foreign language majors, speak/read over 8 languages, and all of us like the Living Language series for its ease of use, and structural approach to learning Italian, particularly, as well as other languages. I used LL exclusively when I was learning Italian on my own, and I then tested in the high intermediate level when I got to Italy to take formal classroom instruction.

I've looked at Pimsleur, and I don't think it's the best choice of the self-taught language programs. I don't think it gives a good enough grounding in the basics, and particularly the idiom, of the foreign language in question. Living Language and Rosetta Stone, the latter with its interactive approach, would be my first two choices.

I like to use the cds and a
Whateverlangauge in 10 Minutes a Day book. The books have flash cards and stickers.

Thanks for the information on Living Language. I should finish with Pimsleur in the next month and purchased some of the Living Language CD's to continue. The great thing about all the good language programs is that you get different vocabulary and the same vocabulary used in different ways.

Random House (who manufactures Living Language) also has a book/CD for law enforcement professionals that I might get. I am not in law enforcement, but I am an attorney and the specialized vocabulary probaby would be great.

I too will look into Living Language. When I looked it up though I was confused as to which one to buy. There seem to many editions. Girlspytravel, What would you suggest?

Thanks again!
Sally

It wasn't till I got to France that I realized just how good the Pimsleur cds are! I am more fluent on every trip. I am on French II and keep it on in the car and on my IPOD. For me anyway, this is a good way to learn.

My husband got me an online French program but it bored me and most of the time when I sat down to use it I ended up on Fodors!

Whatever system you use to learn a language, you need to be consistent and do it every day. I am going to try and see what Living Language has to offer after finishing Pimsleur's Spanish CD's and will come back and tell you what I think.

OK, I did buy Living Language and have had the time to compare it with Pimsleur. Living Language is more of a book course with the CD's as a supplement. If you do not do the book work, you will have no idea what is on the CD; it would also function as a good review if you had already taken a formal Spanish course (which I never have). There is also not a lot of repetition, so to respond, you really have to have done the book work first. There are 4 CD's that you do with the book and 4 CD's that are designed to use "on the go". The CD's that you are supposed to do "on the go" largely presume the book work. For example, they give you a dialogue that you cannot possibly understand if you have not studied beforehand. Even though I do not like Living Language as much as Pimsleur, I will use it when I am done with Pimsleur, as stopping means I will lose fluency.

One thing I really dislike about Living Language is that there is a lot of switching between Castillian and Latin American Spanish. I live in the US and need Latin American Spanish. I don't need to learn how to lisp. It is OK to know the different pronunciations exist, but I wish they would just stick to Latin American.

The Pimsleur CD's stand alone. You can do them one after the other with almost no supplementary book work except for a very short readings booklet you can do at the end of each series (except Plus which does not have readings). I prefer Pimsleur for the car because it the CD's are sort of a mini version of what it is like to learn a language by just listening, as though you lived there and picked up words every day. I don't have time for lots of book work--which is the entire point with Pimsleur; you learn while you are wasting time (for me it is when I am in the car driving somewhere).

And now I have a one CD called "In Flight Hungarian" that I am going to try. It is 60 minutes of common expressions that you can practice on the plane (or in my case the train) as you prepare to arrive in Hungary. Since I am only planning to go for a few days as a side trip from a home exchange in Vienna, it should be enough (but I will come back and tell you what I thought after I use it). Also, I did not want to tackle another language big time while I continue to work on my Spanish because it is too confusing to do two at once--not to mention that I need German for Vienna and my German is laughable; I can generally get the gist of what is being said, but please do not laugh hysterically when I try to speak. I just want to devote all my efforts to Spanish right now. The "In Flight" series exists in an array of languages.

By the way, I am now almost done with Pimsleur Spanish III. I am finishing up lesson 26. I have the plus Spanish too. When I finish, I will try to do something with Living Language. Again, Living Language is nothing like Pimsleur and I prefer Pimsleur.

FauxSteMarie - Thanks for the update! I really appreciate your comparasions. Sounds like nothing is perfect. I look forward to your further insight. Have a great upcoming trip.

Thanks Sally. The Hugarian ain't much of anything. Just an hour of how to say "hello", "thank you", etc. Hungarian is not a language many people speak and it is supposed to be related only to Estonian and maybe Sanskrit. Crazy no?

While I can't speak a word of Hungarian--except that I know they call the language "Magyar" my great grandparents on one side were from Hungary and my father remembers them speaking Magyar. My father, by the way, spoke really only English but he could curse in several languages. First you learn to say "thank you". Then you learn the curses--in any language.

I agree! I don't know how people use the audio programs without a booklet, or without haveing studied the language. Even when I use these programs in my car, I am picturing the words, or remembering the conjugations, or thinking, "No one uses the full phrase where I live". Like with "Eso si que es". Where I live, everyone just ssays "Eso!".

I studied French Spanish and Italian in school. I bought a Pimsleur program in French. I followed along mostly, but when I tried to learn language I had not studied like Portuguese or Japanese with an audio program, I found it very difficult.
Before my March trip, I borrowed an advanced Spanish program, verbal only (not Pimsleur) and that had no English on it at all, it was impossible!

If you need a lesson guide or booklet, I recommend checking out your local library to see which one you find workable for you before purchasing. My library carries great cd programs. Many bookstores won't take them back once opened. I believe Pimsleur still guarantees theirs though.

I haven't had any difficulty using the Pimsleur program without the dialogues written down. When I did Russian, I had long lost high school Russian (1 1/2 years) embedded somewhere in my brain, so I had a minimal foundation.

I do speak very good French (although it is not fluent) so I had a romance language base when I used the CD's for Spanish and Italian. I had never studied those languages before though.

The key to Pimsleur is that you cannot get frustrated if you play the CD's once and don't get it all. You won't. You play each lesson over and over until you do get it and don't give up! It is not a contest to see how fast you can do the CD's. Just make sure you learn them well before moving on.

I do remember asking someone a question in Russia. I guess my accent must have been good because I sure got a rapid fire answer in Russian. I had no idea what the person said because it was either said too quickly or the words were not in my vocabulary. I simply asked them to slow it down and told them I was and Americanka. They slowed it down and used hand signals and we got where we needed to go.

I think the Pimsleur tapes are terrific, and review with them all the time - French. I really am tempted to get the Spanish tape program (I live in Miami, and Spanish is almost essential here). I already had a background in French when I started those, so it was easy. However, with only one semester of Spanish in college (50 years ago!), I just don't know. I also hate to take time away from my study of French, which is ongoing. But Spanish would certainly be much more useful to me, and I could practice using it daily here. I mainly would like to communicate with my yard man!

Sue, I minored in French but had never taken a Spanish course. I now am at the level where I know the numbers and can carry on very simple conversations and can give people directions.

A couple of weeks ago in the courthouse where I do a lot of legal work, a woman was trying to fill out a form and the guy "assisting" did not know a word of Spanish. The woman spoke almost no English. Believe me when my Spanish is better than someone's English, that person's English is pretty well non existent. I told the woman to just put her address in the space and the guy who knew no Spanish looked at me like I was a genius.

In the world of the blind, the one eyed man is king. What I told the woman wasn't much.

I never used Pimsleur for French because my level is much too high for Pimsleur--although I thought about buying the French Plus tapes to review.

If you are concentrating on French, I would just stick with that. It is way too difficult to do two languages at once. In fact, my Spanish has confused my French. I was asked something in French and the answer came out half in French and half in Spanish. That stops if I have to speak a foreign language a lot. I do remember being in Germany and working on my very pathetic German. I then had trouble switching to French. The problem is that you concentrate on one language and the other one takes a back seat.

I did read about the person studying German and Arabic at the same time. I wouldn't even attempt that.

I do agree that Pimsleur would be improved if the dialogues were printed out, but I have done well without the script. It is funny, however, when you see words written out in other contexts. Sometimes you are really surprised by the way they are spelled.

I just hope that the US is going to have more bilingual education for English speaking children so that more native English speakers will learn Spanish when it is so easy for them to do so. We need to encourage bilingualism among the English speaking American community because it is needed--and because English speaking children will be at a disadvantage applying for certain jobs if they do not speak Spanish. Reality is what reality is in the US these days.

Sue4 FYI -- check your French set packaging. My kit came with a $50 off coupon for the next program I purchase.