Capo

If you're actually mugged -- especially with a weapon -- then even a concealed moneybelt/pouch probably isn't going to do a lot of good. <BR><BR>The best precaution for those kind of situations, IMO, is to minimize what you'd lose by not carrying a lot of cash/credit cards/ATM cards on you in the first place. <BR><BR>(Gerry, fortunately, all my valuables are still intact...but from now on, whenever Sally's around here, I might need to start using a post pouch. :~)

s.fowler

Wooooooo...... Capo. I'm trying th=o get my brain around that

wanderer

i feel sorry for those who were picked but in almost every case the pickers used classic techniques ie drop something, help clean up a mess on you. this has been disgussed ad nauseum nad still people are still s\falling for the same old tricks. maybe just maybe some of the blame rests squrrely with those who have been had for not being more attentive to their local environment or realizing when here comes the set up. we have traveles the world and never and i mean never been subjected to this kind of activity. perhaps the message should read HEADS UP, BE MORE AWARE AND ACCEPT SOME OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN WELL BEING

Gerry

wanderer:<BR>Of course! I'm sure you also believe that every woman ever raped asked for it. Or everyone murdered? Is it always the victim's fault when some dirt-bag commits a crime on them"? Almost every criminal I've ever talked to (and they were many in my law enforcement career) will tell you it wasn't their fault. It was the victims fault. They shouldn't have been walking down that street or wearing that dress, or carrying that purse or whatever.<BR>How is the tourist supposed to know what to look for and how to protect themself if no one warns them? Maybe this sort of thing doesn't happen in their home town. Maybe they don't intuitively know everything to do to avoid being taken by a trained "professional" crook.<BR><BR>To warn them is being responsible.<BR><BR>Comments like yours are very irresponsible.<BR>

wil

message : I agree with Gerry. While I do take responsibility for my carelesness, my idea of posting my message was just to highlight a situation where theft may occur. If someone reads it, is prewarned and more aware and it helps to prevent another theft, it would help make someones trip a little better right?

Marlena

OK, not to revive a tired, bedraggled old thread, but all the folks who say "I don't care if I look like a tourist!!" should take heed. I'm not saying those of you who have been pickpocketed looked like tourists (I have been a victim myself and I do my best to blend in with the europeans), but in my opinion those who do want to wear the big white sneaks and university sweatshirts may as well wear a target on their back. I always try to "go incognito"...it seems to help with the harrassment factor if not the theft factor!<BR>Marlena<BR><BR>Marlena

wanderer

gerry i feel i must reply to your abrasive and prejudicail answer. no where inmy message did i say or imply that the victim of rape or murder was asking for it. that was a half assed response based on nothing and certainly is not the way i feel about either of these issues. i migh imply in your case you were probably the typical redneck know it all law enforcement person who never analysed the evidence correctly but was carried away by some emotional reaction. my main point is and was then in the original post that htere have been volumes written in all travel journals. travel books and show warning people of these dangers. they have appeared almost ad nausein on the travel sites on the web. i have traveled this planet and seen first hand the numerous people who leave zippers of handbags open(male and female), leave bags, luggage, wallets unattended. people put items down out of sight at tables. this is the irresponsible behaivor that i refer to that can be corrected to the persons advantage. open your eyes and read this- maybe just maybe i have some good points for you to consider

amber

to wanderer,<BR>first of all, i don't see how gerry's response is "prejudicial" in any way as you claim. who is being prejudiced by gerry's comment? perhaps you're using the word incorrectly? <BR>secondly, you're arguing the point that people need to take more responsibility for their actions in not leaving zippers open, bags unattended. however, in reading all these posts, i have not encountered anyone admitting to having been careless with their personal property in that way. i'm reading about people who use money belts, who keep their hands over their pockets, who clutch their purses and tuck them tightly under their arms. so i guess i don't understand what the informational point of your post was. you seem to be reiterating what everyone else knows and has done already, that we all take some responsibility for our own safety. sounds like most of the posters on this board already do that. no new information there.<BR>lastly, using the rationale which you explained in your post (victims of crimes bear some fault for not taking responsibility for his/her own actions), it would seem that gerry's reasoning and logic is right on point. and, no, i'm not affiliated with any law enforcement agency (which you seem to have some issues with). perhaps you should have stated your point more clearly.

Capo

Gerry &amp; Wanderer, I can see both of your positions. <BR><BR>Wanderer, I understand your point, although perhaps your tone was a bit harsh. Not everyone is careful or attentive. However, even if one has read about classic pickpocket tricks -- like helping to clean up a mess -- I think when something like this actually happens to you, not everyone has the presence of mind to stop and think "Hey wait a minute...I remember reading about this trick in a book, or on the Fodors board!" I'd like to think that, if something like that happened to me, I'd catch on but, until it does, I can't be 100% sure. <BR><BR>Gerry, you asked: "Is it always the victim's fault when some dirt-bag commits a crime on them"? Well, first of all, I'm sure we'd both agree that even if a person is incredibly careless, that doesn't excuse a criminal from taking advantage of that carelessness. However, to use an *admittedly extreme* example, if I go walking around Rome or Barcelona or San Francisco flashing a wad of cash in my hand, and a criminal sees that and robs me, don't I bear just a little responsibility for what happened? (even though of course, the criminal had no right to take my money.)

Gerry

wanderer:<BR>My comments were not meant as a personal attack on you. If I overstated and you saw it as personal, I apologize. Yours was an anonymous post so I could not rightly conclude anything about you personally. It is the message I objected to--one that I see frequently of this board. What I get from these messages(not just the one you posted) is: Only stupid and irresponsible people get robbed. You got robbed. Therefore you are a stupid and irresponsible person. <BR>Also we get: I just got back from Rome, Barcelona, Paris etc. and I wasn't robbed. Therefore, I must be a smart, responsible person. Or I did't see anything. Therefore, all of these people with their stories must be crazy or lying. It's perfectly safe. At least for smart responsible people like me.<BR>Maybe it just means that they are not as observant as they thought and they were just lucky.<BR>This is not meant to attack anyone personally. Just the thinking.<BR><BR>Capo: Of course. The whole point is to warn people to be careful and tell them what they should be doing to protect themselves. If they still stubbornly insist on flashing their wad and carrying their wallet in their back pocket ... because "It's safe, I'm smart, nobody will mess with me...". Well, you can't say nobody warned you. <BR><BR>Safe travels,<BR><BR>Gerry

BTilke

I just read in the International Herald Tribune that last year 30,000 people in Paris alone were the victims of pickpockets (that's 30,000 who reported the crime, plus untold numbers who didn't). Favorite pickpocket haunts were the numbers 1 and 4 metro lines. That 30,000 included a good number of locals. The idea that only stupid, irresponsible people get pickpocketed or that being aware of the situation gives you 100% protection just doesn't wash. I agree, enough with the blame the victim attitude. <BR>BTilke

wanderer

amber what was said heavily implyed that if one accepted the victims of rape and murder asked for it then you are a big jerk. i agree that one has to be a jerk if one accepts this hypothesis. however if one is looked at as a jerk then how can one put any faith or believe anything else tdhat person has said??? that is prejudicial in that respect. gerry thank you for thinking to make an apoligy. if my reply was originally misunderstood or i came on a little to strong i to must apologize to you. we both have strong feelings on this subject and both have good points. i just hope that these threads will give travelers sosmething to think aboout to reduce the number of these unfortuanate events. there arte always several sides to every story and i feel that this gives many people ffod for constructive thought. butting heads can be fun as well as informational. see you on dthe net

Sherryl

Obviously, they can be anywhere, but how do Rome, Florence, Venice &amp; CT compare to Barcelona on the pickpockets?<BR>Thanks...

Jane

I'm going to Madrid and Barcelona at the end of August. Do I need to be overly concerned about this pickpocket thing which seems to be rampant in both cities. I live in NYC, have never had a problem with pickpockets and use street smarts when walking around. Are there any precautions you recommend?

Capo

Jane, IMO...cautious, yes. Overly concerned, no.<BR><BR>Precautions: (1) wear a moneybelt/pouch under your clothing, (2) don''t carry things in a purse or backpack that you can't afford to lose, (3) be aware of your surroundings without being paranoid. <BR><BR>P.S. to Gerry: thanks!

cc

Sherryl and Jane:<BR><BR>I've been to Barcelona a couple of times (most recently this May and once in '97 for 6 weeks) as well as Italy, and I didn't witness any crime at all. Pickpocketing must be an annoying nuisance in all the cities you mentioned, since the police presence in Barcelona (more now than in '97), Rome and Florence was pretty significant. Not that that stops pickpockets, but pickpocketing, like all crime, will never go away completely. <BR><BR>Take all of the horror stories with a grain of salt. We never see threads started by the hordes of travellers who HAVEN'T been pickpocketed in Europe, do we? Pickpocketing can happen to ANYONE, but don't let that spoil your fun. Spain and Italy's major cities are very safe compared to most major American cities.<BR><BR>As it has been stated time and again, common sense and an awareness of your surroundings are your best defenses. It may not work 100% of the time, but hey, I'll take thse over the 100% guaranteed pickpocket defense: staying home.

FSE

I just got back from Barcelona on Sun. I read all the warnings before I left and took precautions - used traveler's checks, left most credit cards at home and kept valuables in hotel safe. I was also aware of my surroundings. I had a fantastic trip and would recommend Barcelona to anyone. As a New Yorker, I know that whenever you travel to a big city you must be prepared for the problems that every big city has in terms of crime. Be alert!

Melodie

Greetings All! I have been "lurking" on this site on and off for the past few months, but felt I had to jump in on this discussion. I am a travel agent, and a newly appointed "Spain Specialist"...now that my "book learning" is done I'm off to get practical experience in September <BR><BR>Needless to say, I wouldn't be in this profession if I didn't love travelling, and do quite a bit of it; I've never had a problem anywhere except in 1999 when I was in Italy for 3 weeks. I got ripped off in Lake Como (of all places). I was prepared for pickpockets, etc, in Rome, Florence and while I didn't let my guard down, I was still relieved of a video camera out of a backpack I was wearing, with no "distraction:, no crowds and my hubby walking next to me. Think about it, they unzipped the pack while I was wearing it and took out the video camera (not a small item) and zipped it back up without us noticing it! I obsessed about this for days, replaying everything over in my head...the only saving grace was that it was in the beginning of my trip (so I hadn't taken tons of film) and not the end. <BR><BR>This said, I'm particularly concerned about travel in Spain, knowing the "horror stories". Will this keep me from going? Absolutely not. I will however take more precautions(look for news articles about a woman using karate on an unsuspecting person) <BR><BR>Seriously, I'm originally from the East Coast (i.e., I walk fast and treat everyone with suspicion a travel agent, and pretty savvy, and STILL I was ripped off! So, it can happen to anyone - these guys are GOOD!

jim

some prossie suked me dry and while i was gettin me jollies she had her hand in me trouser pocket riflin through and fleecin me dough.still she only got 2 quid and a some slags phone number,still the head she gave was great and while i await my clinic test results she stands no. 1 at playing a tune of love on my old skin flute. <BR>

Mylani

If you can't carry anything in your pocket, where's the best place to put your cash and cards? My friend and I are going to Spain in January and I don't want to be carrying my cash in my boot like I did when I went to Rome. That was a real big nuisance.