Perillo Tours - Bad Experience
Nov 15th, 2005, 01:05 PM
#22
One room change, maybe. Or two even. But Six?? That seems a bit much. You must have been terribly unlucky (or terribly picky) to end up in unliveable rooms 6 times. I am not trying to pile on - but the reason most people take tours is 1) to have the planning/luggage/sightseeing all arranged/handled - or 2) they think they are saving money.
But usually it is much cheaper to go independently - ESPECIALLY if one has to pay a single supplement.
And if there were empty seats on your coach (as you eventually say) - then it was not over crowded. Empty seats are lost revenue. (On most tours the guide is supposed to sit in the jump seat.)
High end/more expensive tours have smaller groups and use smaller vehicles. But still - a 12 passenger bus will have 10 to 12 along. A lower end tour will use bigger buses. A 46-passenger will usually have 40-42, and so on. So I can't see how the coach was over crowded.
But usually it is much cheaper to go independently - ESPECIALLY if one has to pay a single supplement.
And if there were empty seats on your coach (as you eventually say) - then it was not over crowded. Empty seats are lost revenue. (On most tours the guide is supposed to sit in the jump seat.)
High end/more expensive tours have smaller groups and use smaller vehicles. But still - a 12 passenger bus will have 10 to 12 along. A lower end tour will use bigger buses. A 46-passenger will usually have 40-42, and so on. So I can't see how the coach was over crowded.
Nov 15th, 2005, 01:11 PM
#23
Darn - hit Post too soon. Meant to add - but your tale is a very good illustration of why most fodorites avoid tours. Unless there is some physical limitation one can't manage their luggage, etc - then for most people independent travel is cheaper, and much more satisfying. You get to go where you want, when you want, for as long as you want -- and can sleep and eat in places you choose instead of one chosen by Steve Perillo for his bottom line.
Nov 15th, 2005, 01:23 PM
#24
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Reading all this - maybe I AM lucky to be all time on standard buses, not on "re-designed" ones to get more people on.
"To lyb: The only seats left were at the very rear of the bus --- all across." Didn't they have the rotation system like on all bus tours, if one day you're in front, next day in the middle, next day in the back, then the front again, etc... This way everybody gets to sit everywhere.
Margo, I never got a map of a tour. Or any maps from the tour directors. For sale, yes, they would tell you where to buy better maps. Never knew they may be included with a tour paperwork!
"Also Perillo does not send out ANY info before the trip" - wow, this is shocking! I was getting (NOT from Perillo) some papers, including booklets with general tour advices, this company's travel tags, forms to fill out for emergency and medical care. At least a notification that you ARE on the tour.
"To lyb: The only seats left were at the very rear of the bus --- all across." Didn't they have the rotation system like on all bus tours, if one day you're in front, next day in the middle, next day in the back, then the front again, etc... This way everybody gets to sit everywhere.
Margo, I never got a map of a tour. Or any maps from the tour directors. For sale, yes, they would tell you where to buy better maps. Never knew they may be included with a tour paperwork!
"Also Perillo does not send out ANY info before the trip" - wow, this is shocking! I was getting (NOT from Perillo) some papers, including booklets with general tour advices, this company's travel tags, forms to fill out for emergency and medical care. At least a notification that you ARE on the tour.
Nov 15th, 2005, 01:30 PM
#25
OK - lynnre. I understand you didn't enjoy your tour. BUT - you have posted this info on <b>six</b> different threads - including dredging up several old threads that haven't been active for many months.
Seems once or maybe twice would have been enough.
Seems once or maybe twice would have been enough.
Nov 15th, 2005, 02:17 PM
#26
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FianaAgain--If you think 49 people on a 50 seat bus is not crowded--there was not enough place even to stow our little carryons. 50 people can only be accommodated by putting the seats closer. A couple of the taller guys were in real agony with so little leg room.
As for pretrip info, we did get luggage tags, the trip invoice and a list of the hotels used. But what I was used to was a day to day itinerary, maybe a map, a list of other passengers and some printed info on the history of Sicily or at least the sights we would be visiting. Other tour companies send this out, such as Insight, Odysseys Unlimited, and especially, Elderhostel.
lynnre--Looks like we were on the same tour. Were you on the green bus or the yellow bus? To the rest of you, that was how the two groups were separated, but really it was one big group on two buses with two guides.
As for pretrip info, we did get luggage tags, the trip invoice and a list of the hotels used. But what I was used to was a day to day itinerary, maybe a map, a list of other passengers and some printed info on the history of Sicily or at least the sights we would be visiting. Other tour companies send this out, such as Insight, Odysseys Unlimited, and especially, Elderhostel.
lynnre--Looks like we were on the same tour. Were you on the green bus or the yellow bus? To the rest of you, that was how the two groups were separated, but really it was one big group on two buses with two guides.
Nov 15th, 2005, 02:33 PM
#28
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Hi Margo,
Well, we can commiserate. I was on the yellow bus and did accompany your group one night in Taormina.
You failed to mention the quality of the luggage tags --- paper. No guide or printed material for our group in Agrigento or the Greek Theater in Taormina. We were left to our own devices and it was shameful. What a disappointment.
Well, we can commiserate. I was on the yellow bus and did accompany your group one night in Taormina.
You failed to mention the quality of the luggage tags --- paper. No guide or printed material for our group in Agrigento or the Greek Theater in Taormina. We were left to our own devices and it was shameful. What a disappointment.
Nov 16th, 2005, 08:58 AM
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after reading about this,i had to reply.i have been an independent traveler all my life and can't understand the tour thing.when i wanted to travel alone,i joined an earthwatch expedition.
anyway,last spring i escorted a group of high school students to italy on explorica.it was the worst trip of my life and it was embarrasing what they do to the kids.the hotels listed were not the ones we stayed in,the hotel in florence was in a slum outside the city.we never saw the statue of david,or the last supper or the sistine chapel.all these were just mentioned as we walked by.we did not go into the uffizi,we walked by.the food was pre-ordered by the preference of the tour guide,we had no choice.we stayed in a small beach town an hour from venice that was closed for the winter.it was a terrible experience and no one should allow their child to pay for such a terrible trip
anyway,last spring i escorted a group of high school students to italy on explorica.it was the worst trip of my life and it was embarrasing what they do to the kids.the hotels listed were not the ones we stayed in,the hotel in florence was in a slum outside the city.we never saw the statue of david,or the last supper or the sistine chapel.all these were just mentioned as we walked by.we did not go into the uffizi,we walked by.the food was pre-ordered by the preference of the tour guide,we had no choice.we stayed in a small beach town an hour from venice that was closed for the winter.it was a terrible experience and no one should allow their child to pay for such a terrible trip
Nov 16th, 2005, 09:34 AM
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Poysine, I have only 1 comment on your tour description. I have 2 sons, and they never agree on anything. If a tour guide would ask children what food to order, a group would never agree on one type only! 
Nov 16th, 2005, 09:38 AM
#32
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I was on a Collette Vacation to Ireland a few years ago. It was nice and I still stay in touch with some of the people but I can't say I'd ever repeat it. Too many hours on the bus, too many so-so meals etc. The best part is that most of the people were lots older than me so I was a "girl" to them which was delightful at this stage in my life!
Nov 16th, 2005, 10:04 AM
#33
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i also forgot to mention that we stopped at awful rest stops to eat,which were fast food places mostly..when i inquired why we didn't wait until we got to werever we were going or stopped in a town,i always got a dumb answer such as there are no places to eat.in italy!give me a break,even the small towns are loaded with pizza or panini places.we found out later thate the tour guide gets a "kickback"from the rest stops and the other tourist things we stopped at
Nov 16th, 2005, 10:26 AM
#34
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I guess I was very lucky on the one tour I took. We were not on buses more than if I had driven myself or taken a car, all but one hotel was in the city center and I had all of the hotels names long before the trip so I had checked them all out. The bus was not crowded at all, our tour guide was FANTASTIC!!! One the 2 "shopping" stops we did, she let us know in advance that if we didn't want to go, we could meet up with her later. She always gave people the option to meet up later if they chose, she gave everyone her cell phone #.
As far as meals were concerned, they were all pretty good, I'm not a foodie, but the friend who was with me can be picky and she liked them all. We also had plenty of time away from the tour group if we wanted to and the tour guide would suggest places to go to on your own if people asked.
From people who have taken several tours, I do hear that the tour guide can make or break the tour, I guess I was extremely lucky, she was fantastic! She also dealt very well with the couple of chronic complainers on the tour..people who complained that the hotels were not like "Canadian" hotels and seemed to request a room change at every hotel.
My friend's luggage didn't arrive in Rome at the same time as she did, and the tour guide was in constant touch with the airline until the luggage arrived in our room.
All in all, though I have now grown to like independent travel better, I would take a tour with her again anytime...by the way, the tour company was Insight.
As far as meals were concerned, they were all pretty good, I'm not a foodie, but the friend who was with me can be picky and she liked them all. We also had plenty of time away from the tour group if we wanted to and the tour guide would suggest places to go to on your own if people asked.
From people who have taken several tours, I do hear that the tour guide can make or break the tour, I guess I was extremely lucky, she was fantastic! She also dealt very well with the couple of chronic complainers on the tour..people who complained that the hotels were not like "Canadian" hotels and seemed to request a room change at every hotel.
My friend's luggage didn't arrive in Rome at the same time as she did, and the tour guide was in constant touch with the airline until the luggage arrived in our room.
All in all, though I have now grown to like independent travel better, I would take a tour with her again anytime...by the way, the tour company was Insight.
Nov 16th, 2005, 10:33 AM
#35
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One more thing about time on buses....I am always puzzled when people complain that they were on a bus traveling the whole time....If one looks at a map prior to traveling and knows their destinations, it shouldn't be a surprise that there is travel time when the tour goes from one city to another 200 miles away. In a most sincere question, anyone who was shocked as to the amount of travel on the bus, did you look at a map before you left? did you have no idea of the distances before leaving? I am truly curious because that always puzzles me when I hear the comment about being on a bus all day.
Nov 16th, 2005, 10:53 AM
#36
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Let me make a general comment on tours. Some on Fodors are dead set against them as they prefer indpendent travel including planning for themselves. Others of us have had good experiences seeing Europe or elsewhere on a group tour.
We have been with Globus, Grand Circle, Elderhostel and others and each has afforded us extensive insights about places visited. And I know friends who have had satisfactory exerperiences with Perillo, too. Yes, there are drawbacks being with big groups in a bus, Yes, sometimes changes are made in rooms. And yes, sometimes the food isn't so great. But this happens with any traveling, independent or group. I can recall a number of excellent restaurants accomodating our groups...like an outdoors one in a Greek village and another in Israel under an Arab tent canopy and another in a basement cafe in Sienna.
My wife and I have felt tour directors and guides to be superior with many experience built in to our own tours. For the most part, we would rate our ten tours as excellent. Of course, Globus or Perillo is a fast paced and lower cost tour whereas GCT and Elderhostel have included more learning components. You just pick what you want.
ozarksbill
We have been with Globus, Grand Circle, Elderhostel and others and each has afforded us extensive insights about places visited. And I know friends who have had satisfactory exerperiences with Perillo, too. Yes, there are drawbacks being with big groups in a bus, Yes, sometimes changes are made in rooms. And yes, sometimes the food isn't so great. But this happens with any traveling, independent or group. I can recall a number of excellent restaurants accomodating our groups...like an outdoors one in a Greek village and another in Israel under an Arab tent canopy and another in a basement cafe in Sienna.
My wife and I have felt tour directors and guides to be superior with many experience built in to our own tours. For the most part, we would rate our ten tours as excellent. Of course, Globus or Perillo is a fast paced and lower cost tour whereas GCT and Elderhostel have included more learning components. You just pick what you want.
ozarksbill
Nov 16th, 2005, 11:10 AM
#37
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Lyb, Ozark, I agree with you. Usually people who complain been on 1 tour only, and their expectations were unrealistic.
I did have a bad tour guide on a tour of New England, but the fall colors were so enchanting - this is all I remember now, a year later, not the tour guide. The driver was excellent, so we've got to see all the best.
Yes, it's true, the tour company gets commissions from the restaurants, souvenir shops, etc... at the bus stops. But don't be quick to blame this on the tour director. S/he is not the one who plans the tour. And not the one to pick hotels, restaurants, stops. The tour company (Insight, Perillo, others) signs a written contract. The tour company hires the guides who follow instructions.
Same as at work - if you are in a management position, only then you can make (limited) decisions. Tour guides are hired employees.
I did have a bad tour guide on a tour of New England, but the fall colors were so enchanting - this is all I remember now, a year later, not the tour guide. The driver was excellent, so we've got to see all the best.
Yes, it's true, the tour company gets commissions from the restaurants, souvenir shops, etc... at the bus stops. But don't be quick to blame this on the tour director. S/he is not the one who plans the tour. And not the one to pick hotels, restaurants, stops. The tour company (Insight, Perillo, others) signs a written contract. The tour company hires the guides who follow instructions.
Same as at work - if you are in a management position, only then you can make (limited) decisions. Tour guides are hired employees.
Nov 16th, 2005, 01:32 PM
#38
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I don't know anything about Perillo, but did take a couple TWAGetaway tours years ago and liked them very much, so have a few tour-type comments.
First, as to types of restaurants that can hold a group. The groups on TWA tours weren't that huge (def. not 50, but maybe 30-35), and I specifically chose tours that did not have many included meals. Actually, I looked into Perillo tours and could tell right away I wouldn't like them because they include most meals. I thought their itineraries looked okay, but regardless of how I want to travel, I want to be on my own for most meals to try local restaurants and not be in a big group. The TWA tours only included meals when we were in locations that were kind of out-of-the-way, except for breakfasts, of course. For example, we stayed in some country inn place in the Lake District of England, and they had a largish dining room with a lake view, fireplace, etc, and rustic furniture and we had a lovely dinner in that inn. There was no easy way to get to any restaurant around there, especially since we had no cars.
There were a few other places like that, but only a couple meals were included -- and in some cities, the group was actually split up between a couple hotels. Part of this was price -- they combined a budget group and expensive group and the only difference was the accommodations. So they might have the expensive folks in a nice 4* hotel in Edinburgh, but us cheaper folks were in smaller B&B type places with a breakfast room (about 8-10 of us were in there).
I agree with lyb about the bus thing, I don't understand that, either. The tour description should tell you destinations and you figure out how you are getting there and how long it will take. None of this was a surprise to me because I reviewed the itinerary. IN my case, again, my tour didn't have that much time on buses because I deliberately chose one that stayed in one city for 3-4 days, and then went to another "hub". we took the train between cities in one case, flew in another (Dublin to Edinburgh). We did have a bus ride from Edinburgh down to London, stopping in a few places like the Lake country and Stratford. But that wasn't a surprise, and it may be dorky, but I kind of like some of those scenic bus tours to see the countryside.
We always had excellent guides -- an overall one for the tour, and local ones for historic sites who were very knowledgeable. I know they aren't in business any more, which is too bad -- TWA Getaway tours gave excellent value and were considered very good. They always told you the hotels ahead of time, even before you booked. The brochures gave an exact list of the hotels they typically used in a city so you could see what they were like and where they were. I think they always could occasionally make substitutions, but generally they were very similar to the listed ones. I had no complaints at all on the hotel front. That Lake District inn was quite lovely, for example. This was not a deluxe tour, either.
First, as to types of restaurants that can hold a group. The groups on TWA tours weren't that huge (def. not 50, but maybe 30-35), and I specifically chose tours that did not have many included meals. Actually, I looked into Perillo tours and could tell right away I wouldn't like them because they include most meals. I thought their itineraries looked okay, but regardless of how I want to travel, I want to be on my own for most meals to try local restaurants and not be in a big group. The TWA tours only included meals when we were in locations that were kind of out-of-the-way, except for breakfasts, of course. For example, we stayed in some country inn place in the Lake District of England, and they had a largish dining room with a lake view, fireplace, etc, and rustic furniture and we had a lovely dinner in that inn. There was no easy way to get to any restaurant around there, especially since we had no cars.
There were a few other places like that, but only a couple meals were included -- and in some cities, the group was actually split up between a couple hotels. Part of this was price -- they combined a budget group and expensive group and the only difference was the accommodations. So they might have the expensive folks in a nice 4* hotel in Edinburgh, but us cheaper folks were in smaller B&B type places with a breakfast room (about 8-10 of us were in there).
I agree with lyb about the bus thing, I don't understand that, either. The tour description should tell you destinations and you figure out how you are getting there and how long it will take. None of this was a surprise to me because I reviewed the itinerary. IN my case, again, my tour didn't have that much time on buses because I deliberately chose one that stayed in one city for 3-4 days, and then went to another "hub". we took the train between cities in one case, flew in another (Dublin to Edinburgh). We did have a bus ride from Edinburgh down to London, stopping in a few places like the Lake country and Stratford. But that wasn't a surprise, and it may be dorky, but I kind of like some of those scenic bus tours to see the countryside.
We always had excellent guides -- an overall one for the tour, and local ones for historic sites who were very knowledgeable. I know they aren't in business any more, which is too bad -- TWA Getaway tours gave excellent value and were considered very good. They always told you the hotels ahead of time, even before you booked. The brochures gave an exact list of the hotels they typically used in a city so you could see what they were like and where they were. I think they always could occasionally make substitutions, but generally they were very similar to the listed ones. I had no complaints at all on the hotel front. That Lake District inn was quite lovely, for example. This was not a deluxe tour, either.
Nov 16th, 2005, 06:00 PM
#39
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Lynnre,
I am so sorry to hear that your "dream trip" was more like a nightmare.
Although I'm a travel agent, I've never dealt with Perillo, so I cannot comment on their tours. But if you DID book this through your travel agent I suggert that you contact them to handle it for you. I suspect that you didn't as you mentioned contacting the tour company yourself.
As far as the response received, I would be willing to bet it was a "generic" sort of response generated by most companies (and that usually takes 6 weeks to receive). My suggestion to you would be to send another letter to Steve Perillo's attention and enclose the copy of the one from Customer Service.
This time, do a separate cover letter, refer to the one sent out and tell him that it was an unacceptable response. Keep it to one page and address your concerns in short paragraphs. You might also mention that you are going to post your comments and their follow up on the Fodors Board. Then send it Certified Mail.
That said, you will receive an apology and undoubtedly, a credit good on a future Perillo tour -- I don't know if you'd ever WANT to go on another one of their tours, but I can almost guarantee that's what you'll be offered.
Tries suggested sending a letter to Conde Nast, but you have to factor in the number of letters they receive and the ones they actually print...
Hope this is helpful and let us know how it turned out.
Regards,
Melodie
I am so sorry to hear that your "dream trip" was more like a nightmare.
Although I'm a travel agent, I've never dealt with Perillo, so I cannot comment on their tours. But if you DID book this through your travel agent I suggert that you contact them to handle it for you. I suspect that you didn't as you mentioned contacting the tour company yourself.
As far as the response received, I would be willing to bet it was a "generic" sort of response generated by most companies (and that usually takes 6 weeks to receive). My suggestion to you would be to send another letter to Steve Perillo's attention and enclose the copy of the one from Customer Service.
This time, do a separate cover letter, refer to the one sent out and tell him that it was an unacceptable response. Keep it to one page and address your concerns in short paragraphs. You might also mention that you are going to post your comments and their follow up on the Fodors Board. Then send it Certified Mail.
That said, you will receive an apology and undoubtedly, a credit good on a future Perillo tour -- I don't know if you'd ever WANT to go on another one of their tours, but I can almost guarantee that's what you'll be offered.
Tries suggested sending a letter to Conde Nast, but you have to factor in the number of letters they receive and the ones they actually print...
Hope this is helpful and let us know how it turned out.
Regards,
Melodie
Nov 17th, 2005, 05:15 AM
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lynnre
I am sorry that your trip was disappointing.
Others have given you suggestions as to what you might try, but I must warn you that you might not be overly successful in getting much in the way of any compensation. This is because what the company COULD have done, versus what they are LEGALLY OBLIGED to do, are two different things.
First, if a company promises accomodation of a certain standard, this usually refers to accomodation that is graded on the amenities that the hotel itself offers. No guarantee is usually offered by any company that the surroundings beyond the hotel will meet some particular standard, say, be free of things like noisy flight paths or railway tracks. This is because certain criteria that the company is obliged to meet might conflict with the criterion 'find a quiet hotel.' Hotels for tour groups must suit the particular needs of groups - be big enough to hold everyone, allow for safe and convenient loading and unloading of passengers, have elevators, etc. Your company must also compete with other tour companies (some of which might be priced higher than yours) for the available hotels in an area. Again, this is not to defend their management entirely - they could well have done better - but the point is, they have a lot of grounds with which to resist any claim that they didn't meet their contractual obligations.
A similar argument applies to meals. They only have to provide 'meals' as specified - providing those meals are deemed fit for human consumption (and the standard for that is lower than one might like) they can again claim they delivered what was promised.
About single supplements. The problem is, it is impossible to sell half a hotel room, at least if the room comes with an ensuite bathroom. Hotels in Europe often come with rooms with one bed as opposed to two beds or a double bed, but the most expensive part of the room - the plumbing and electrical and so forth - is the same for double as opposed to single rooms, or doubles sold for single occupancy. Whether two people or one person uses a bath, the number of fixtures is the same.
A similar 'one size fits all' argument applies to overhead costs relating to booking. Booking staff spend about the same amount of time processing a booking for one, as opposed to two people. So the cost for booking one person isn't exactly half of the cost of booking two people. It's almost the same.
Factor all of this stuff in, and the cost for a single is more than just one-half a booking for two people. The difference is sold as the single supplement.
I wish I could tell you better news, but on the other hand, I don't want to see you disappointed twice.
I am sorry that your trip was disappointing.
Others have given you suggestions as to what you might try, but I must warn you that you might not be overly successful in getting much in the way of any compensation. This is because what the company COULD have done, versus what they are LEGALLY OBLIGED to do, are two different things.
First, if a company promises accomodation of a certain standard, this usually refers to accomodation that is graded on the amenities that the hotel itself offers. No guarantee is usually offered by any company that the surroundings beyond the hotel will meet some particular standard, say, be free of things like noisy flight paths or railway tracks. This is because certain criteria that the company is obliged to meet might conflict with the criterion 'find a quiet hotel.' Hotels for tour groups must suit the particular needs of groups - be big enough to hold everyone, allow for safe and convenient loading and unloading of passengers, have elevators, etc. Your company must also compete with other tour companies (some of which might be priced higher than yours) for the available hotels in an area. Again, this is not to defend their management entirely - they could well have done better - but the point is, they have a lot of grounds with which to resist any claim that they didn't meet their contractual obligations.
A similar argument applies to meals. They only have to provide 'meals' as specified - providing those meals are deemed fit for human consumption (and the standard for that is lower than one might like) they can again claim they delivered what was promised.
About single supplements. The problem is, it is impossible to sell half a hotel room, at least if the room comes with an ensuite bathroom. Hotels in Europe often come with rooms with one bed as opposed to two beds or a double bed, but the most expensive part of the room - the plumbing and electrical and so forth - is the same for double as opposed to single rooms, or doubles sold for single occupancy. Whether two people or one person uses a bath, the number of fixtures is the same.
A similar 'one size fits all' argument applies to overhead costs relating to booking. Booking staff spend about the same amount of time processing a booking for one, as opposed to two people. So the cost for booking one person isn't exactly half of the cost of booking two people. It's almost the same.
Factor all of this stuff in, and the cost for a single is more than just one-half a booking for two people. The difference is sold as the single supplement.
I wish I could tell you better news, but on the other hand, I don't want to see you disappointed twice.
