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Pedraza de la Sierra. With notes on Toledo, Caceres, Jarandilla la Vera and Segovia

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Pedraza de la Sierra. With notes on Toledo, Caceres, Jarandilla la Vera and Segovia

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Old Jun 4th, 2006, 01:37 PM
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I know, I know. You can't stop love and Mr. Segovia knows that not matter how long it takes, I will wait. Because I love him.
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Old Jun 4th, 2006, 02:28 PM
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Thank you, thank you for the recipe, Maribel.
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Old Jun 4th, 2006, 03:27 PM
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annabelle,
You're very welcome. Please let us know how it works out!
eks,
I'm very glad I could be of help! And bless you, this wonderful thread is giving me impetus to fnish a long languishing Extremadura file right here on my desk!

And for artlover and eks,
I now have a better appreciation for the architecture of the Segovia Parador. I've been saying all this time, it looked to me like a "large, purpose built French brick ski lodge-something one would find in Chamonix", but next time I'm going to look at it from your perspective! I'm glad that didn't dissuade you! I hadn't thought about the similarity with Frank Lloyd Wright. Now, that frames it in an all new light! The views from there certainly are beautiful, and I think it's quite good for families in summer because of the pool and lots of space for kids to play.

eks,
You made the right dining choice in Jarandilla. We had tapas one night (more pork products!) at the Mesón del Labrador after surveying "La Puta Parió" (with P. Casas chapter on Extremadura in hand), which was completely deserted-didn't look inviting.
Tapas at the Mesón were o.k. but nothing memorable. The Parador d.room's ambience can't be beat. We always chose our wines from their "good value" list too. Loved discovering great local reds for under 10 € We make some great discoveries that way.

We did part of your Gredos drive in reverse, and I was taken aback by the beauty. I would highly recommend to anyone exploring Extremadura to be SURE to take that unforgettable drive on the Ex203-C501 from Jarandilla to Arenas de San Pedro. I was struck by the microclimate, the many rushing mountain springs and gorges, "gargantas", the abundance of palm trees and cultivation of tobacco. These little Vera towns are just delightful-Losar, where a local horticulturist took to the town's topiary on the main drag and had a field day, sculpting storks, squirrels, various and sundry animals, crowns and even framed a stop sign within a topiary image of Christ! A most unusual local roadside topiary display!

I wish we had had more time to spend talking walks and exploring the stunning area of Gredos. As you note, eks, it's a really popular wkd. destination for madrileños, so there are several enchanting, designer-done country house hotels, such as El Milano Real in Hoyos del Espino (known for their gourmet dining), or La Casa de Arriba, in Navarredondo, just minutes from Alfonso XIII's 1928 hunting lodge Gredos Parador and La Posada de Esquiladores in San Esteban del Valle. We want to hit them all-members of the romantic Rusticae group and Posadas Reales, like the Hospedería de Santo Domingo in Pedraza, which is a chapter yet to come!

Candeleda is another charming village for folks to add to the list when exploring the Avila province. They say it's at its very most beautiful in the fall. At the artisans' shop in Cáceres, I saw some lovely embroidered costumes from there, similar to those of La Alberca de Salamanca. The ladies and children don these gorgeous costumes on pilgrimage days

Before moving down to the Jerte Valley, we explored the adorable villages of Candelario (too charming for words-a hamlet with water rushing through it, much like Valverde de la Vera) and Hervás, with its very unusual architecture, houses with facades of a mixture of adobe and half-timbered and sides of corrugated tin and an interesting maze-like Jewish quarter, which once housed fifty families. Then we drove to Béjar, with the SOLE purpose of eating lunch at a cova recommended restaurant, "La Bejarana" (where she leads me, I follow, and she never, ever, disappoints).

About the walled city of Avila photo op:
The best picture postcard vantage point to view Avila framed within its walls is to drive down to the "4 postes" , the 4 stone posts viewing area. Drive out of town following signs towards Salamanca and the N 501 and towards the Hotel 4 Postes.
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Old Jun 4th, 2006, 03:44 PM
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artlover,
You can also just show up at a Parador and make yourself an "Amigo". In fact, we enrolled in the program at the insistence of our waiter in the dining room of the Chinchón Parador. He gave us a number than we later used in Ubeda, Ronda, Jaén and Cazorla before we received our "official" Amigos card in the mail. And I love perusing the quarterly bulletin. If you can travel off season, particularly Oct-March, there are AMAZING bargains to be had-two-for-ones, 20-40% discounts, guided tours thrown in, etc. You can save a bundle by planning your trip around these seasonal offerings. And at some paradors on wkds. (particularly summer wedding wks.) by the time we reach the Parador, the outside parking is all taken up (this is especially true in Avila), so it's really nice to have that free underground parking spot. I go over my quarterly bulletin like a vulture, just like I do my frequent flier programs!
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Old Jun 5th, 2006, 12:57 PM
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.......so after checking into the Segovia Parador and admiring the wonderful view from our large terrace of the city rising in the distance, it was time to explore. There is a weekly food market on Thusdays in Segovia but this being late in the afternoon, it had already disbanded. We drove to the parking area along the streets leading from the Aqueduct; again, since this was Thursday, parking was easy and inexpensive with the meters dispensing the parking tickets to display in the windshield. As I remember, there is a 2-hour limit; in case you overstay the limit, you can nullify your fine immediately by paying a bit extra; I had never seen this ingenious concept in operation. Segovia's Roman aqueduct is one of the marvels of Europe; Built about 1 AD without mortar, it rises 95 feet and transported water from more than 15 km away; the arches built of massive granite blocks present a dramatic gateway to this lively city. At the base of the Aqueduct are two important addresses: Candido Restaurant, occupies an old tavern on the left as you enter the city, and the Tourist Office faces Candido to your right. Of course, Candido was our first stop; they do not serve tapas but we did have a look around this temple of suckling pig before picking up brochures and maps from the large and well-equipped Tourist Office. Since I had Maribel's trusty guide, much of the Tourist Office information proved to be superfluous but the ladies at the desk are most helpful and fluent in several languages, as befitting Segovia's importance as a tourist mecca. Surprisingly, however, although we saw a few groups of tourists alight from buses (again, most of these were Spanish) the city is refreshingly devoid of that tourist-trappy atmosphere that you might expect given its location just 93 km from Madrid. It is a friendly, youthful and spirited small city..easy to navigate, filled with small independent shops and restaurants fitted into mostly 15th Century mansions and public buildings. I quickly understood Claire's enthusiasm for the city, as it has a difficult-to-describe youthfullness and congeniality about it which, coupled with the wealth of historic sights and world-famous cuisine, create a winning combination. This is a city which would make a great base from which to make day trips to the many sights (and eating places within an easy drive)
Knowing we would be returning for dinner, we had a small walk of about an hour, before returning to the car and following Maribels' precise instructions to the best vantage point from which to view the unforgettable Alcazar of Segovia. We headed toward La Fuencisia to the confluence of the two rivers; the same children (!) that Maribel writes about are still there playing soccer on the field! There is a parking lot reserved for buses right next to the grassy area but we were assured by a policeman who was driving by that it would be fine to park the car there for a while. The views of the fairytale Alcazar looming skyward from its rocky crag and the rivers rushing by below now form one of my most enduring memories of Spain. This is not to be missed. Although we reached the spot by car, one could also have a nice walk to the site from the city; it is a great picnic spot and needless to say, a great photo op as well. As Maribel mentions, the light is ideal at the end of the day.

By this hour, it was time to head back to the Parador once more and get ready for dinner. After much thought and much obsessive research, I had reserved a table for 9pm at Jose Maria, one of the three best-known temples of traditional Castillan cuisine in Segovia, the other two being Candido and Duque. Since we only had one ngiht in the city, this was a most difficult choice; I am certain that any of these places would have fulfilled my expectations; we looked at the menus for all three, and peeked into the dining rooms as well. The menus are similar with Jose Maria also offering a large variety of tapas and other menu items for those sorry souls who either do not like or cannot avail themselves for whatever reason of the glorious roasted meats of Segovia.

So.....a nice rest before heading into the car agiain for the short drive dinto Segovia. This time we parked quite close to the Plaza Mayor only a short clock from Jose Maria. We ambled along the narrow winding streets of the Jewish quarter and, in a small shop opposite the cathedral, I finally found my Jerta cherries in a small fruit and vegetable shop presided over by a lovely woman who informed me that the harvest was just beginning and that I should plan to return when the cherry blossoms are in bloom in early April. I am a bit ashamed to say that I bought her whole basket of cherries!

By this time the Plaza Mayor was in full swing...children in strollers clutching balloons, elderly folks with walking sticks, teenagers, and a few tourists packed a side of the square and climbed atop the bandstand in the center to watch a performance of music, clowns, jokes and general hilarity by two young girls and their helpers.

After the show, we walked to Jose Maria, where the window display made it clear what would be on our plates that night. Adorable little animals they are.....

Jose Maria's front bar was packed by the time we arrived for our 9pm reservation and walked through to the dining rooms. As I mentioned, the menu is extensive, the wine list even more so, but there really was very little discussion about what we would be eating after the starters.

More very soon..........
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Old Jun 5th, 2006, 01:29 PM
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Hello, Segovia! So far so great, eks!
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Old Jun 5th, 2006, 02:46 PM
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Jose Maria is my kind of restaurant. Cozy, with professional service yet not in the least bit pretentious..the restaurant encloses a series of dining rooms with white plaster walls and lots of red brick. This is the one place that we saw quite a few fellow Americans, probably because we were eating so early at 9pm when the restaurant had just opened for dinner. For some reason, here and at most of the other places we ate that week, most tables seemed to be drinking Marques de Caceres Rioja. We had the house wine which proved to be the ideal choice, as Jose Maria has been well-known in the world of Spanish wine since he represented Spain in a world sommelier's contest in the early 70s and is currently the proprietor of his own vineyards in nearby Ribera del Duero, Finca y Bodega del Pago de Carraovejas.
We began with white asparagus served cold with a red pepper viniagrette. This will sound sacreligious, but I am a big fan of canned white asparagus from Navarra, which I buy in rather large quantites to take home with me. I began with one of the house specialties, Ensalada de Perdiz y Gallo Iberico escabechado con Foie Fresco y Endibias.
The cordero asado here must be ordered by two persons and, knowing that we would be on the lechazo trail the next day, my partner ordered the famous suckling pig, whose adorable relatives are featured on the menu cuddled up in Jose Maria's arms. The pig is no more than 3 weeks old and weighs a maximum of 4.5 kilos. This tiny animal is served with fabulous roasted potatoes. The meat is incredibly tender and the skin is so scrumptiously crispy that it is truly a wonder. The skin is so very crunchy that a large portion, including the tiny ear, actually bounced off the plate and onto the floor (boohoo) when we cut into it! Never mind.....we completely demolished the entire portion. Not able to wait a minute longer for my lamb, I ordered the baby lamb chops which proved to be the tiniest versions I had ever seen..the eye portion was not much larger than the face of my watch. Again, accompanied by fantastic roasted potatoes. Now I love my greens, but I must say I did not miss them one bit here...this is meat for meat connoisseurs and salad or vegetables would just occupy space that could be filled by more meat!

And for dessert, the sweet that is now competing with Pastel Vasco in my affections. Ponche Segoviano, is a confection of custard, marzipan (ooops, forgot about that delight in my list of top sweets) and liqueur oozing through layers of light yellow cake. I am sure Claire or Maribel will be able to provide a more accurate description..all I can say now is WOW.

Dinner at Jose Maria was wonderful, but not nearly as wonderful as the meals that awaited us the next two days when we left Segovia and began our journey into the Segovian hinterlands in search of Roast Suckling Lamb. The meal for the two of us, including water, the Tinto "Autor" Jose Maria, and a second dessert of ice creams, cost 96 E. with tax. (The cochinillo is priced at 19.95; the lamb chops at 18.50.)

We returned to the Parador after a small walk. With the help of the friendly staff at the front desk, I pinpointed the location of the nearest large supermarket, conveniently located in the town of La Lastrilla close to the Parador; this would be our first stop in the morning before heading to Sepulveda, a Castillian town synonymous with Lechazo, where we had a 3pm reservation at "Tinin."

I should say here that two nights would have been far better than one in Segovia (three nights might even be better to allow for side trips to La Granja and even, perhaps, to El Escorial) but our next lodging, Hospederia de Santo Domingo in Pedraza, which would be our favorite of the trip, requires a two night stay on weekends. And so Segovia is firmly on my "return" list.
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Old Jun 5th, 2006, 04:51 PM
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Ah, eks,
You are a true disciple! I am so very proud of you for loving that tinned white asaparagus from Navarra. None of my stateside friends (non Basque) will touch the stuff! Anyone with such an appreciation for both lechazo and cochinillo (not to mention ponche segoviano) is dear to my heart.

I always have the same reaction you did (and does claire) to Segovia. I find it youthful, light, airy, hospitable, joyously devoid of tourist trapish-ness. I can't help but findToledo much more somber, insular and brooding, although I revere its artistic and historic patrimony. When I first saw Buñuel's Tristana filmed in Toledo and returned longing to retrace my steps in that wonderful fin de siecle tertulia cafe where scenes were filmed, and discovered that it had been turned into a McDonalds, my heart sank. Oh, well, that's progress. Luckily the venerable marzipán house of Santo Tomé
still preserves the Plaza del Zocodover's dignity!
About the ponche, I'll just have to wrestle up a recipe! I can't find one from our heroine, Pen.
I'm so proud of you for jumping right on that lechazo trail. You chose well in Segovia. Either one of the triumvirant would have done you well, but the gastronomic critics give the slight edge to José María. King Juan Carlos is an equal opportunity lechazo aficionado, bless his heart. His picture adorns the walls of all the great lechazo emporia.
Now, on to the inimitable Tinín! That man is very picky about his lechazo. The last time we were in Sepûlveda. we saw Tinín and Mrs. Tinín outside their restaurant hand picking the wood chips, one by one, that would go in the fire for that afternoon's lamb feast. It takes a tough man to produce a tender lechazo!
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Old Jun 5th, 2006, 05:33 PM
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<<The skin is so very crunchy that a large portion, including the tiny ear, actually bounced off the plate and onto the floor (boohoo) when we cut into it!>>

I read that and gasped, and my mother just said in an alarmed voice "what happened, sweetie?!"

<<I am sure Claire or Maribel will be able to provide a more accurate description..>>

Ponche Segoviano is an inspiration! Layers of cake (which is actually sort of dry without the liquer), firm but inviting custard, and marzipan that has its own chemicle state. . . neither solid nor liquid nor gas, but some kind of wonderpaste. . . what I think happened (no official research) is that someone was eating it and then thought "What could make this better?" and as they were Spanish they said "Liquer!" Thus Ponche Segoviano. Things that make you go yum!

When I started reading this section, I had to stop and go get a glass of wine to help with the extreme salivation.

Segovia! Segovia!
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Old Jun 6th, 2006, 06:49 AM
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I love you both, Claire and Maribel! It is only late morning now so too early for lunch at Tinin but we will be on our way soon...
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Old Jun 6th, 2006, 08:20 AM
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Ah, ekscrunchy. . . to love and be loved in return. How does it feel?

Claire
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Old Jun 6th, 2006, 09:30 AM
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Feels great, Claire. Just got back, by the way, from the libaray where I was disppointed to learn that I could not renew Anya von Bremzen's book for a fourth (!) time....so it is out of my reach until the next copy is put on reserve for me...will have to buy this one; it is superb.

On that subject, more or less.....we check out of the Segovia Parador the next morning; double room cost 149 Euro which was well worth it. Our reservations for Tinin were at 3pm so how did we spend our morning...jaunt to La Granja? Return to Segovia for another walk around. Of course not. Our destination was Caprabo supermarket in La Lastrilla, a very short ride from the Parador. That morning we did not take our breakfast at the hotel; there was a large convention meeting going on (Vodaphone) so we decided to be on our way and also save some room for the lamb which awaited in Sepulveda.

I see from my bill here that I managed to spend 72 euro at Capabro, in addition to a few pastries which we purchsed separately at their bake shop counter.
Of interest probably to no one except myself, here are some of the items I purchased, some of which to consume immediately, most of which to bring home:

500 grams cherries
100 grms saffron ramas (gift.should have bought a few more)
Nivea Vital Dia face cream (heard good things)
4 small cans bonito in olive oil
4 cans Ortiz Ventresca (6.80 each)
2 cans cuca mejillones (3.29 each)
3 jars Ferrer Romesco
4 3-packs Magno La Toja soap (1.49 each..great)

(had already purchased 4 cans Navarra asparagus a few days earlier)

Left behind:
Uncounted glorious hams and sausages
All sorts of Galician seafoods in cans
Lovely jars of Ortiz tuna (no more jars due to unfortunate breakage and susequent leakage incident in Santander airport 2 years back..)
Torta del Casar and dozens of other incredible cheeses (sold in supermaket under refrigeration..perhaps better to buy in "gourmet" shop where not all are refrigerated)

So...we lugged our bags to the car and were off in the direction of Sepulveda.

A few minutes later we passed the first of countless farms where the cute little pigs live....these dot the landscape of rolling hills, green fields...snow-capped mountains visible in the distance, even in early May. Lovely. The road passes several lovely towns including Turegano, with a handsome Plaza Mayor and a nearby castle whose 15th Century walls walls disguise a 12th-Century church. (Thank you, Maribel) Turegano is an archetypical Castillian town and would make a fine overnight and base from which to explore the area. Picturesque in the extreme.

Nearing Sepulveda, we passed the turnoff to the Duraton National Park, Parque Nacional de las Hoces del Rio Duraton, home to protected species including the famous vultures This will have to wait until the next trip, as we were anxious to press on to Sepulveda itself where, as they say, a baby lamb had our names on it.

The road winded through hills and around a bend and suddenly, we spied Sepulveda rising up from its perch at the junction of two rivers. Gorgeous ochre stone buildings spill down the hillside. Another major photo opportunity and a truly glorious site from the vantge point along the road.

We entered the town and parked right in the Plaza Mayor, from which radiate the narrow streets lined with colonnaded and balconied centuries-old residences and several Romanesque churches (again, see Maribel's guide for more information).
A few steps off the Plaza, the tourist information office offers brochures and maps; most of these are in Spanish. Not surprisingly, a large part of the tourist office's information is devoted to the business cards and brochures of the various Asadores which dot the town. These we did not nab, since we already knew our destination, Figon Zute el Mayor, known far and wide as "Tinin." Here is the web site with the relevant photos:


http://portalsegovia.com/figondetinin/



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Old Jun 6th, 2006, 11:19 AM
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Tinin is one of the most celebrated of the Castillan asadores, taverns specializing in roasted young meats, either suckling pig or suckling lamb. Although Tinin has a written menu, few patrons consult it. There is only one reason that diners make the trek here and that is to feast on the cordero lechal. From the churra breed of sheep, these are suckling lambs that feed only on their mother's milk prior to slaughter at the age of 18-25 days. (More on this is the Pedraza section).

Now, we will make our way to a small lane which runs off the Plaza Mayor and duck inside the doorway of the fabled Tinin, where Sr. Antoraz Albarran runs the asador founded by his family in 1850.

And now we will pause before our lunch and take in the scene..a pair of simple, rustic white plaster-walled rooms with sturdy wooden tables and the tantalizing aromas of roast lamb perfuming the scene. (See photos of the room, and the beauties inside the oven on the web site listed above).......

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Old Jun 6th, 2006, 01:34 PM
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Finally..... we arrived about an hour early for our 3pm reservation and I was concerned that this might be a problem. No way. When I mentioned this to Sr. "Tinin," he laughed and led me into an adjoining room dominated by the wood-burning oven which was filled with what looked like dozens of large terra cotta dishes, each holding a quarter of the baby lamb in all its glory. We were seated in the first of the two dining rooms; a window overlooks the countryside but your attention will be focused on your table so the view is completely superfluous. At 2pm the place was nearly empty but by the time we left about an hour and a half later, every table was filled with diners hunkering down over their lambs. Like most asadores, Tinin is open for lunch only and calling for a reservation is a good idea, as there are only a finite number of lambs in the oven each day and if they run out you will be very disappointed. Service here is very informal. We ordered what I believe is the standard meal, beginning with a bottle of the house tinto (10 Euro, from Ribera del Duero) and a bowl of green salad: a simple mix of lettuce and tomato with a tangy viniagrette. The salad is not necessary but we wanted to prolong the experience as much as possible. Sr. Albarran indicted that we should let him know when we were ready for the main course, and shortly after this, he delivered to the table one of the oval terra cotta ollas with a quarter of a lamb to share for the two of us. Even if you have eaten many lambs as I have, this will probably be a singular experience. Unlike other lamb dishes, this is the elemental lamb in all its glory; not much has been done to disguise the fact that, very recently, this was a small animal. The sections of meat are served with the bone but are of falling off-the-bone tenderness, attached in many places to the fabulously crispy skin, which might be the best part. (This time not one precious piece fell onto the floor!) This is not food to eat in your white linen blouse..you want to pick up each piece and gnaw at every last flavor morsel, which we did. No gaminess, just pure tender meat and that skin. No vegetables to distract, just the meat and some plain bread. One of my most memorable food experiences..ever!!! Next time I might be persuaded to order the brains as well!

The bill for all of the above, as well as a rather large helping of my new favorite dessert, ponche Segoviano and tax, came to a most reasonable 54 Euro.

After Tinin, we strolled around the town for a while; if you become enamored of the terra cotta dishes which hold the lamb, you can pick one up, along with other terra cotta items, at the shop or one of the open-air stalls on the Plaza Mayor.

Soon after we were in the car again, headed for Pedraza, our last stop and what would prove to be one of our favorites in Spain.
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Old Jun 7th, 2006, 11:01 AM
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I love meat in general, but lamb is especially wonderful. In fact, once while on a family vacation (I was 5 or 6), we saw a pasture full of lambs and I said "Mom, are those lambs?" and when she responded that they were, indeed, I said "Yummy."

Mind you, my brother once pointed to a cow and said "hamburgers" so I think it runs in the family.
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Old Jun 7th, 2006, 01:02 PM
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Yum, eks,
Your description of every delicious morsel brought back great memories!
Since the roast lamb experience is most everyone's one meal of the day, reservations at the asadores are always taken for 3 p.m. But I've seen day trippers on wkds. pile into the asadores in Pedraza as late as 4. From 3pm. to 4 is rush hour.

On our last visit, we decided to check out yet another legendary asador in tiny Sacramenia, beyond Sepúlveda, the Mesón González, whose owner, butcher-in-chief of Hermanos González butcher shop only roasts lechazos reserved ahead (no reservation, no lechazo), and everyone shows up at 3. When we arrived, we found the Mesón closed tight (off season), so we actually dined at the butcher shop! Well, in a side room right off the butcher shop with simple long communal wooden tables, and Sra. González served us our feast. No menu-she just started bringing dishes out.- simple but heavenly lettuce & tomato salad, country bread, 1/4 baby lamb roasted in its juices in the cazuela, their house red Ribera del Duero and of course, ponche segoviano for dessert, along with a chupito or two, the chupito being a little glass of mighty potent golden herb liqueur served on the house as a digestif. A carnivore's heaven.

About the ponche segoviano, the best that I've found for sale is at the bakery where the dessert originated in the mid 20s, the Pastelería El Alcázar right on Segovia's lovely Plaza Mayor, across from the cathedral. In fact, they are the purveyors to Restaurante José María. Besides those gazillion egg yolks, egg whites, basic bizcocho (spong cake), lots of sugar, almonds and marzipan, I don't know what their "magic" ingredient is. Their particular recipe is a well guarded secret.

eks,
You were very wise in trying the tostón (cochinillo) at José Mariá, as it's said to be the very best in town and then waiting for your lechazo banquet at the inimitable figón of Tinín. You gave yourself the best of both worlds! Well done!

If anyone is looking for very inexpensive but comfortable lodging to use as a base to explore the Segovia province (to do castle route), the 3 star Hotel El Zaguán or its 2 star Posada annex in Turégano would fit the bill well.
Members of Estancias de España.
www.el-zaguan.com
www.estancias.com

Now on to my very favorite medieval town in all of Spain, Pedraza!
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Old Jun 7th, 2006, 07:55 PM
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On to Pedraza very soon....with a brief bonus report on Cookbook Author Janet Mendel's talk at Cervantes Institute!

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Old Jun 8th, 2006, 03:46 AM
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What a great thread! LaClaire, I was wondering what kind of art history teacher would let the students go to the bar without seeing El Greco's treasure...especially since that wonderful story was available. I wouldn't let high schools off that excursion. The work is wonderful in itself but placed in Santo Tomé isn't singular. Off to the bars! What!
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Old Jun 8th, 2006, 03:48 AM
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P.S. I feel like a visitor rather than realmember of the group, but I am curious. Are you all working on laptops? I just want to sit back and read!!!
holakjs is offline  
Old Jun 8th, 2006, 03:53 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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holakjs- mostly I am on my laptop, and yes, this thread is worth just sitting back and enjoying. As for my teacher, she was already well aware that you can't force anyone to do anything, especially when they have to pay admission, so she dropped it. She did buy my ticket, though.
laclaire is offline  


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