Paris with a 19yo girl - add London or Amsterdam?
Aug 26th, 2010, 10:07 AM
#41
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nukesafe: I put "nothing in" about her having input? Did you even read my OP?
<<And yes of course I have asked her what she wants to do. She wants to see the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame, and do some shopping, and when we talk about other stuff, she says "whatever you want is fine with me.">>
"Of course" I have asked her what she wants to do. But "of course," that comment was completely ignored by all the people who were quick to jump in with "ask your niece what she wants to do." As if that hadn't occurred to me.
I also didn't realize "girl" was now verboten. I go out with the girls all the time, and we are in our 30s and 40s. We use "girl" like we'd use "guy" and not to mean a child. But now I've been sufficiently chastened, and I'll try to remember that "girls" can't go to Europe together (unless the girl is a child), we must be ADULT WOMEN at all times. Live and learn.
And yes, I do find the "leash" comments both presumptous and insulting. But I've been reading this forum long enough to expect that kind of thing. I don't know what I said that implied I was keeping her on a "leash." When a woman posts to say she is going with her husband on a trip, and wants suggestions for activities, nobody responds "don't keep him on such a short leash." It's a bizarre thing to say frankly. Nothing I said implied that I was forcing her to do anything she doesn't want to do, just the opposite in fact. I very much want to do whatever she wants, but I was asking for suggestions as to what she might enjoy so I can run it by her as an option.
<<And yes of course I have asked her what she wants to do. She wants to see the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame, and do some shopping, and when we talk about other stuff, she says "whatever you want is fine with me.">>
"Of course" I have asked her what she wants to do. But "of course," that comment was completely ignored by all the people who were quick to jump in with "ask your niece what she wants to do." As if that hadn't occurred to me.
I also didn't realize "girl" was now verboten. I go out with the girls all the time, and we are in our 30s and 40s. We use "girl" like we'd use "guy" and not to mean a child. But now I've been sufficiently chastened, and I'll try to remember that "girls" can't go to Europe together (unless the girl is a child), we must be ADULT WOMEN at all times. Live and learn.
And yes, I do find the "leash" comments both presumptous and insulting. But I've been reading this forum long enough to expect that kind of thing. I don't know what I said that implied I was keeping her on a "leash." When a woman posts to say she is going with her husband on a trip, and wants suggestions for activities, nobody responds "don't keep him on such a short leash." It's a bizarre thing to say frankly. Nothing I said implied that I was forcing her to do anything she doesn't want to do, just the opposite in fact. I very much want to do whatever she wants, but I was asking for suggestions as to what she might enjoy so I can run it by her as an option.
Aug 26th, 2010, 10:09 AM
#42
When I traveled with a friend to Paris, we just planned our activities a day at a time. Would read thru the tourist info we'd collected and a guidebook we'd brought along in the hotel in the evening, or over breakfast in the morning. Planned our day (taking the weather into account) and went from there. It worked out great.
Aug 26th, 2010, 10:25 AM
#45
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For me personally 8 days in one city would be too long also> But hey, that's me. I'd rather return another time to see what I haven't seen the first time.
I do think London can be ' done' in 2 or 3 days. Millions of Europeans go to London for a weekend. You won't see all, but can see a lot.
Amsterdam is also great for a few days.
Hard choice, but you can hardly go wrong here!
If you want to do some shopping in Paris, in a little different and out of the way place; Bercy Village.
A small outdoor shopping center in converted wine ware houses. It isn't very big, but has some nice restaurants/cafes, some shops and a large cinema (with movies in English with subtitles). Easily reached by metro.
I do think London can be ' done' in 2 or 3 days. Millions of Europeans go to London for a weekend. You won't see all, but can see a lot.
Amsterdam is also great for a few days.
Hard choice, but you can hardly go wrong here!
If you want to do some shopping in Paris, in a little different and out of the way place; Bercy Village.
A small outdoor shopping center in converted wine ware houses. It isn't very big, but has some nice restaurants/cafes, some shops and a large cinema (with movies in English with subtitles). Easily reached by metro.
Aug 26th, 2010, 10:35 AM
#46
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Aside from the odd "leash" comments, I do appreciate all the great suggestions.
It's given me plenty to think about, and yes, OF COURSE I will be sharing the suggestions with my niece and getting her input. (I didn't realize I was expected to repeat that on every post, but I will if it makes me people happy to know that I'm not tightening the "leash" on her by forcing her to march across Paris against her will.)
London vs. Amsterdam seems to be like the hotel vs. apt thing, some people prefer one, some the other. I am leaning towards Amsterdam just because it's what I would choose for myself, since I've been to London twice and the last time spent almost a week there, but it's been 10 years now. I absolutely loved Amsterdam the first time I went, but it's been over 15 years and I spent only a day and a half there, barely time for the Anne Frank house and a couple of museums. Plus, it does seem more manageable for a quick 2-day visit.
It's given me plenty to think about, and yes, OF COURSE I will be sharing the suggestions with my niece and getting her input. (I didn't realize I was expected to repeat that on every post, but I will if it makes me people happy to know that I'm not tightening the "leash" on her by forcing her to march across Paris against her will.)
London vs. Amsterdam seems to be like the hotel vs. apt thing, some people prefer one, some the other. I am leaning towards Amsterdam just because it's what I would choose for myself, since I've been to London twice and the last time spent almost a week there, but it's been 10 years now. I absolutely loved Amsterdam the first time I went, but it's been over 15 years and I spent only a day and a half there, barely time for the Anne Frank house and a couple of museums. Plus, it does seem more manageable for a quick 2-day visit.
Aug 26th, 2010, 10:38 AM
#47
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Christina: Thanks for your suggestions. I know that Paris gets tourists year round, but I figured the first week of June had to be less crowded than July or August, but maybe I'm just thinking of American tourists and when they take their vacations. Most people don't take the big trip until July or August when school is out and I was trying to beat the rush by going on Memorial Day.
Aug 26th, 2010, 07:23 PM
#49
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cheryllj, that's why I said I wasn't proselytizing - one size fits one. For me, the coffee maker is a big deal - maybe I should be looking for a Juan Valdez 12 step group - but they might want to keep me on too short a leash ;-)
I will say that we chose Amsterdam for this last trip for many of the reasons you cite, and we (and, more importantly, my niece) loved it.
I will say that we chose Amsterdam for this last trip for many of the reasons you cite, and we (and, more importantly, my niece) loved it.
Aug 27th, 2010, 10:41 AM
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Our DD did a junior-year-abroad in Paris last year when she was 21. She liked visiting London but LOVED Amsterdam. (DH and I were living in Amsterdam for the year and she came and spent the summer with us after her university year in Paris was finished.) In fact she she now says she likes Amsterdam even better than Paris as a place to live - which I realize is different than just visiting for a few days. Anyway, just thought I'd pass along her opinion, for whatever it's worth.
You have one fortunate niece! Oh - I want to point out that I graduated too, once upon a time. Quite some time ago, true, but I'm still accepting graduation presents. So if you want to invite me along ....
;->
You have one fortunate niece! Oh - I want to point out that I graduated too, once upon a time. Quite some time ago, true, but I'm still accepting graduation presents. So if you want to invite me along ....
;->
Aug 27th, 2010, 11:56 AM
#51
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Well maybe I was an ancient 19 - but I loved Versailles and the Louvre. And no one dragged me - I was traveling with my boyfriend (although I did drag him to a couple of places).
I loved Paris, adored London, liked Amsterdam - but I'm basically a big city girl and it has more a small town feel (at least to a New Yorker).
But - it's what she really wants to see tht matters. If she has special interests post them and people can make recos.
I loved Paris, adored London, liked Amsterdam - but I'm basically a big city girl and it has more a small town feel (at least to a New Yorker).
But - it's what she really wants to see tht matters. If she has special interests post them and people can make recos.
Sep 14th, 2010, 11:11 AM
#52
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Update: We went back and forth, but ultimately decided on Amsterdam. She was happy to go to either London or Amsterdam, but I wanted Amsterdam more, plus I think it will be easier to manage on a short visit.
I bit the bullet and changed our FF tickets to an open jaw flying home from AMS instead of CDG. The flight from CDG was 10am and after reading some of the horror stories here about dealing with CDG, it seemed like a late afternoon flight from AMS was wiser, and worth the extra money ($252 total to change the tickets). Plus we'd have to pay for the train back anyway, and it allowed me to extend the trip to add one more day in Amsterdam.
So the plan for now is 6 days Paris, 3 days Amsterdam.
I bit the bullet and changed our FF tickets to an open jaw flying home from AMS instead of CDG. The flight from CDG was 10am and after reading some of the horror stories here about dealing with CDG, it seemed like a late afternoon flight from AMS was wiser, and worth the extra money ($252 total to change the tickets). Plus we'd have to pay for the train back anyway, and it allowed me to extend the trip to add one more day in Amsterdam.
So the plan for now is 6 days Paris, 3 days Amsterdam.
Jun 13th, 2011, 04:57 PM
#58
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An update: We have returned from our trip to Paris and Amsterdam, and it was fantastic!
My niece fell instantly in love with Paris, wants to go again next summer, and is trying to figure out how she can move there long-term. She also loved shopping at Zara, in more than one location, and wishes there was one near her.
The only real disappointment was Versailles, and that was because of the oppressive crowds pushing and shoving their way through the palace. We both loved Marie Antoinette's hameau though and found that to be the highlight. Another disappointment was the Moulin Rouge: "It doesn't look anything like it does in the movie!" No, it doesn't. And she also was not impressed with the lame street performers we saw: "They have better ones in New Orleans."
She didn't love Amsterdam nearly so much but the weather was cold and rainy, when Paris was nothing but blue skies. Plus, the bicycles were a PITA at first, and we were nearly run down a couple of times until we figured out the system. It sounds like a joke that tourists have more to fear from the bikes than they do in the RLD, but it was true for us.
But the whole trip was really a great experience for both of us. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. If we do it again next summer, maybe it will be Paris and London. She thinks every trip to Europe should include Paris now, and she definitely has the travel bug.
My niece fell instantly in love with Paris, wants to go again next summer, and is trying to figure out how she can move there long-term. She also loved shopping at Zara, in more than one location, and wishes there was one near her.
The only real disappointment was Versailles, and that was because of the oppressive crowds pushing and shoving their way through the palace. We both loved Marie Antoinette's hameau though and found that to be the highlight. Another disappointment was the Moulin Rouge: "It doesn't look anything like it does in the movie!" No, it doesn't. And she also was not impressed with the lame street performers we saw: "They have better ones in New Orleans."
She didn't love Amsterdam nearly so much but the weather was cold and rainy, when Paris was nothing but blue skies. Plus, the bicycles were a PITA at first, and we were nearly run down a couple of times until we figured out the system. It sounds like a joke that tourists have more to fear from the bikes than they do in the RLD, but it was true for us.
But the whole trip was really a great experience for both of us. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. If we do it again next summer, maybe it will be Paris and London. She thinks every trip to Europe should include Paris now, and she definitely has the travel bug.
Jun 13th, 2011, 05:09 PM
#59
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PS - oh and contrary to keeping her on a "leash," by day 3, she went out with a man she met on day 2 (or night 2). But I had to push her to go because she was reluctant to leave me alone for the evening. I told her I'd manage to entertain myself without her. 
