PalenQ

Sarkozy may benefit from this all too. Hollande is burnt French toast - though these things can have weird effects - like with Bush his ratings were in the tank before 911 then soared to lofty heights. But Hollande is so so un-presidential anyway.

ceeast1

It's always interesting listening to folks from another country talking politics. We were in Paris after the 2008 election. I was thanked personally for electing Obama. I thought Sarkozy was interesting and got an earful to the contrary. Kerouac, thanks for the photographs, hard to look at though. Our thoughts are with Paris. We'll be back but have to wonder if I will be as excited as I usually am when I first see it.

PalenQ

Umh - a Phoenix like thread? Here today gone tomorrow resurrected the next day?

It's totally amazing how much sympathy and care for France there is now here in the U.S. My French son tutors French here to Americans and they almost all immediately send well wishes to him and hoped his family were not involved - very surprising and very nice.

France and America are the oldest allies and too bad it takes shocks like this to re-cement the bond that is always there when things get tough.

Bravo!

fuzzbucket

"kerouac, I have to disagree. Hollande's rhetoric has sounded more directed to saving his presidential chances..."

Hollande has never had any political future. He's trying for a Hail Mary Pass, but it won't work.

There is a lot of disruption within the FN Party, family members and others tearing each other apart instead of toeing the party line. It's probable that the FN will figure importantly in the polls, but not likely that LePen will be elected.

PalenQ

Her father infamously not long ago finished in 2nd place in the first round - the one-eyed evil Jean-Marie Le Pen - lost the eye I heard in a bar brawl - that was a disgrace then and any sizable vote for FN would be again and a symbol of the problem France faced assimilating Moslems by treating them as 2nd-class citizens - like forcing head scarves off in certain public places, etc.

My in-law family has always voted Socialist but some have been anti-Moslem for a long time and now even some are thinking Marie Le Pen is not that bad. These are ordinary middle-class educated French folk - I fear for the future of France with attitudes hardening on both sides.

kerouac

I am really surprised that people are so obsessed by François Hollande and his future. He is one of the least charismatic people to have ever been elected president of any country. Even in France, even among his supporters, he is considered to have zero charisma.

Frankly, I find this very impressive. This implies that to get elected, he had a huge amount of political savvy and fantastic knowledge of all of the important dossiers. Naturally, people who think that the French are complete cretins and vote for total idiots are allowed to disagree.

His popularity has sunk to historic lows since his election, due to the famous "it's the economy, stupid!" -- not for any other reason. The fact that presidents do not really control the economy in any of our countries has no bearing on the matter -- they take all of the blame. He has said that he will not run for reelection unless the unemployment figures have improved significantly before election time. I believe him on this point, because obviously he will be defeated if the economy does not improve.

He has been totally stalwart during his presidency, and I admire him for this, because he has done nothing wrong. It is mostly the world that has gone wrong, and it is not his fault. Compared to most of the other possible candidates in 2017, I will vote for him again in a heartbeat.

I will be interested in hearing the opinions of the non-French who seem to think they have understood everything.

PalenQ

His popularity has sunk to historic lows since his election, due to the famous "it's the economy, stupid!" -- not for any other reason.>

Not even bothered by his sneaking out of the Elysees Palace on a scooter to have a rendez-vous with his mistress? Of course France has long turned an eye on that but the spector of sneaking out alone on a moped should raise questions about this decision-making - he could easily been kidnapped or such by say Moslem terroists - to me terrible judgment and nothing to do with his dalliances.

IMDonehere

I will be interested in hearing the opinions of the non-French who seem to think they have understood everything.

_____________________

This confirms my sole impression of the French.

kerouac

<i>Not even bothered by his sneaking out of the Elysees Palace on a scooter to have a rendez-vous with his mistress?</i>

No, not bothered at all. Since he has never married, he is completely entitled to have a private life. Nobody in France found this indecent. If that is the case in other countries, that is their problem.

IMdonehere, I'm sorry, but your statement makes no sense at all. But I am not surprised.

IMDonehere

Keruoac wrote:

I will be interested in hearing the opinions of the non-French who seem to think they have understood everything.
__________________________

It means you arrogance is not surprising and offensive, especially in light of the support the NON-FRENCH have been offering.

And whatever the NON-FRENCH do is wrong. If ignore French politics we are provincial boobs, if we are interested we are know-it-alls.
__________________________________________________ _____

I remember back in the 1960's and 1970's how the French would criticize Americans about their racial policies. And they were right but their sense of superiority arose from their tolerance on how they treated James Baldwin and Jospehine Baker instead of the treatment of Algeria, Côte d'Ivoire, and Guinea.

A bit of humility and self-retrospection may be in order.

pariswat

'Nobody in France found this indecent. If that is the case in other countries, that is their problem.'

how true. French (and Belgians) just don't care about sex life of their leaders. And they are allowed to lie to protect it.

DSK is another matter : he is pathologically sex addicted and has no respect for women.

PalenQ

IMD - that's it hit em when they're down.

and I could care less about who does what sexually as a politician though to wantonly cheat on his gal friend and embarrass her just before some big NY powpow means he's a sleaze bag - that is not my problem - problem was going off on that scooter presumably unattended by security personnel at a time of great peril for anyone in France of that statue - poor judgment.

As a non-French who follows French politics perhaps more than the average French bloke I think Hollande has a tough tough job - has to reign in rampant public spending whilst the unions complain about any cuts in their perhaps too generous benefits.

Heck one of these in-laws is kind of a nut case so can't work yet he inherited about a million bucks from his Monagesque rich father and yet he said the other day we filed again to get the minimum payment everyone can get just by being alive, apparently.

Hollande is caught between a rock and a hard place - nobody could do that job any better than he is now in my rather limited understanding of the situation. That he is a runt and have no charisma makes it all the worst.

He is burnt milquetoast in the next elections and no doubt will not even get his party's nod - except events like these can rehab a guy's sinking polls as George W saw after 911.

Belgium has much more a problem it seems than France with its Moslems going to jihad and they need to pick up the ball too - right pariswat?

cigalechanta

A few years ago I accidently joined a rally for the socialist, young communist party. The future president was the main speaker.
It was Hollande and he was adored. A very peaceful crowd. I have a flag as a souvenir. Hollande I'm sure had a psees falling him for his safety when meeting his lady love. After hours what he does is his business.

cigalechanta

posse

menachem

I will be interested in hearing the opinions of the non-French who seem to think they have understood everything.

Well, it's non-French Europeans who are now being dragged into a war, by France invoking the Lisbon treaty, France that demands Schengen border controls (while its terrorists are all homegrown). etc.

So I'd say our interest in France's completely failing political culture, also in how it deals with its minorities, are well warranted.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...udi-visit.html

kerouac

Well, nobody will ever accuse you of being objective, menachem, or of being able to create new commentary pertinent to November 2015 instead of links that are years old.

I'm still waiting for everybody's plans of what should be done if Hollande is doing it wrong, but I'm not seeing your immense wisdom being shared with us.

NYCFoodSnob

This thread had an interesting disappearing act. Now, it's just missing a few posts. I can't believe someone told janisj to shut up. Very rude, obnoxious, and controlling.

Is it possible to ignore politics when jihadi terrorists strike? Aren't our political leaders in charge when these things happen? Discussing politics soon after a terror event is not the same thing as discussing the 12-million trust fund that Leona Helmsley set up for her dog while the family sits shiva. Warning to janis: I'm going to mention politics.

<i><font color=#555555>"As expected, Jeb Bush blames much of it on Obama"</font></i>

Poor Jeb Bush. Has to say crazy things to steal the media's attention away from Trump. Can't be easy to run a campaign for president while papa Bush is promoting an anti-W book. Every time Jeb Bush points a finger of blame at anyone for anything to do with terrorism, the sound of a hammer hitting a nail in a coffin resonates.

<i><font color=#555555>"George W Bush and Cheney and Runsfeld are the real folks to blame IMO."</font></i>

Much of this thread is well-intentioned, but blaming Islamic extremism and their agenda on W seems short-sighted and cheap. Doing so ignores centuries of history and the meaning behind caliphate. Perhaps it's time to study the Muslim religion.

Everyone should see PBS' "Frontline: Isis in Afghanistan." Schools are training 3-year-olds for Jihad.

<i><font color=#555555>"Who are you to use the dead in Paris to make a petty jibe on this meaningless board?"</font></i>

Every once in a while, people who like to hear themselves talk will say things that truly reveal themselves. Here is a sparkling example.

If you believe this board is "meaningless" (you must because you said it), then what does it say about all the time you spend on it, contributing hundreds and hundreds of words? Furthermore, what does it say that you have hundreds and hundreds of words posted in the Lounge, the most meaningless corner of this board? Have you ever considered doing something with more meaning?

The Paris attacks illustrate that life is very short. My only advice to travelers reading this thread: Make each day count and live life while you have the chance.

I'll be in Paris for Thanksgiving, shopping for Christmas gifts and celebrating <i>joie de vivre</i>. And I intend to have a blast while I'm there.

Michael

<i>And they were right but their sense of superiority arose from their tolerance on how they treated James Baldwin and Jospehine Baker instead of the treatment of Algeria, Côte d'Ivoire, and Guinea.
</i>

And they considered the conditions of the Algerians, excluding the <i>pieds-noirs</i>, in France to be an economic problem.

PalenQ

ISIS or ISIL is every country's enemy - much like Nazi Germany was every country's enemy or should have been. Holland too. When some sinister entity so so medieval in terror takes over large swaths of territory and subjects folks to heinous crimes let's all join together to fight the plague not point fingers at each other.

Even the Dutch are not immune to ISIS or ISIL threats as some Dutch seem to think - and what about if the non-European U.S. had not got dragged into the war against Hitler? Leave it to the Europeans and folks like menachem would be speaking German or not even around to speak.

How quickly they forget and ISIS and ISIL is as fad as Nazi Germany in its own scale. If Italy, Austria and Switzerland had fought the Nazis ti too would have helped - but there are always Quislings who believe the fight belongs to someone else.

Michael

<i>If Italy, Austria and Switzerland had fought the Nazis ti too would have helped </i>

Why not throw Spain and Portugal into the mix?

Italy had a Fascist government long before Germany, and Austria had its own form of Fascism as of 1932.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Dollfuss

And I believe that the Austrian population on the whole joyfully greeted the arrival of the Nazis.

There's nothing like historical wishful thinking.