It is too bad that some persons do not hold up their end of the bargain. I know I have looked at the ahparis website myself so this is good info. There are only a couple of folks that are mentioned on here regularly w/good reviews, Paris Perfect being the most frequent. I guess I have been fortunate as I use vrbo a lot & have also rented in Paris w/no problems. Better luck next time. But I would continue to try & get more of my $$ back.

Hi dw,

>... the price of the rental was 140 Euros per night, not 580, 580 was just what we ended up spending for that one night,...<

It is still outrageous. Most hotels charge for one night for no shows. Some may go as high as 3.

Have you contacted ahparis and asked for a refund?

If so, and they don't help, report all of them to the local society.

Also post your experience at www.tripadvisor.com.

<the "you get what you pay for" vein are not entirely unexpected, after lurking on the forum for sometime, and seeing that there are always comments of that nature.> I think there are often comments of that nature because it is often true. I found this out the hard way myself, is why I posted along those lines.

<you should fully expect and be entitled to beds made when you arrive, towels that are fairly new and usable, and a non-cluttered environment with all the appliances in top working condition.> It's called a hotel ;-) As you and your husband have already decided, it seems like you'll be happier in a nice hotel next time.

I think your post will be helpful to others who are considering apartment rentals. I know several people who rent in Paris every summer and have found great deals. So fortunately not all apartments have the problems you ran into.

I may be in the minority here, but I do not agree that "You can't expect a lot for that rate" - - for 140 euro night (roughly $170?) you should be able to expect towels that don't double as rags to wash the car with and beds made up (with dry linen) when you arrive - those are not fancy, expensive amenities only reserved for upper crust travelers - they are BASICS!

I don't blame you for being upset with the overall experience, it sounds like you were NOT expecting the Ritz, but you were (rightfully) expecting what was advertised. Inexpensive doesn't necessarily always mean messy and dirty as implied in a few of the posts above - just look at the numerous budget hotels that we recommend on this forum everyday. There might not be a mint on the pillow, or someone catering to your every whim, but the hotel/apartment is clean, the beds are made and the proprietor usually appears to be expecting you. The owner of dreamweaver's apt acted like he didn't know they were arriving (i.e. his clothes & bags were scattered about; remember Dreamweaver arrived when he wanted her to - she didn't show up early and surprise him!), he was not prepared, he was clueless about the internet service he advertised, and he really didn't care. The noise and the neighborhood really can't be blamed on the agency; a rowdy tenant can happen anywhere and parts of the 12 are not picturesque; however the agency should be held accountable when a tenant pays for advertised amenities and those amenities are inadequate or nonexistent.

Thank you for posting your experience here, you may have saved some other family from a disappointment. If you can, could you please post the address of the apartment and any coordinating rental number assigned to it by ahparis? If you have already included this info and I missed it, I apologize. I hope you have the opportunity for follow up on Coco's (Corinne's) advice. She owns a beautiful establishment and is keenly aware of what is and is not acceptable as far as running and advertising a hospitality venue in France. Good luck!

I went to the apartment website and I think I found the listing by narrowing down the areas - it's the only apartment listed at 140 Euros per night in that area, I believe.

The apartment looks quite presentable, and basing it on the pictures alone, I also would have been surprised with ratty towels, a washer that needed pliers to work and general uncleanliness.

However, I also realize that sometimes the pictures don't match reality - this is something that stays in the back of my mind and makes me hesitant when considering apartments for vacation stays.

Hear, Hear, Marge..that is way over a thousand dollars a week and I would expect a lot more than what was received..there are great apts in the 6th and 7th..much closer in neigborhoods... for that price or juat a bit more! And lots of 3 star hotels, with service, for that or less.

Hope you get some compensation, dreamweaver!

I agree 100% with Margie. A renter has every right to expect cleanliness, order, and decent living conditions. Dreamweaver knew she was not renting a penthouse with a full view of the Tower, but she certainly didn't bargain for what she got.

Noise is every in every large city, we've spent quite a few night on r. St.Louis, a pricey trendy street, filled with late night noise, but we had the inside of an apartment (or) hotel has certain standards to live up to, the price has nothing to do with it. 140 euros while not expensive, is certainly not rock bottom.

Truth in advertising (including websites):

"Apartment or rent in noisey section of decent area. It's not too clean, very cluttered, raggy towels and I'm a surley landlord. There is no storage space because it is MY apartment, with my things, and I am only allowing you to rent it so that you can pay my living expenses. If you are interested in a well maintained apartment, stay home or go elsewhere. This is a business to me, nothing more.

Frankly, I have no owner's pride and no time or nor desire to keep it up. Get um in, get um out. Ask any question that you want, and I'll give you any answer you want".

Four years ago we stayed in a $1,500 a week (not that cheap four years ago) St. Louis apartment which fit the above ad to a T (all except the part about the neighborhood - which as you may know is one of the best in Paris. When we complained to the agency
all we got was, 'OH that old lady, we have asked her many times to paint, clean up the apartment, blah, blah, blah...." That agency no longer has that apartment listed, but way back then, they said that the owner had been listing with other agencies too, so I doubt that they dropped her as they had rented her place for years. I tend to think that she went with someone else. If they still listed the apartment, I would give you all of the info, but it is pointless now.

Nina

Hello again to all,

Thanks for all your supportive replies. The agency has agreed to refund commission monies for the nights we didn't stay in the apartment, but has said they cannot do anything about what we paid the owner that wasn't returned. I'll wait to see if I hear anything more from the owner.

For those of you who want to know exactly where this apartment is so you can avoid it:

7 bis Rue d'Aligre, right off the Place d'Aligre in the 12th district.

I had read about the Place d'Aligre in some Paris travel book as being a great market place, so I guess I was naive to think that meant an okay neighborhood/area/street.

So, in my neck of the woods, it's a new day, and I've made my complaints to the agency and owner, and I'm going to move on now, so I can forget it. Maybe I'll sing the praises of our favorite hotel in a little town in Austria soon, so I can say something good!

hey Margie! when I read you I thought "this is exactly what I would like to write if my english was better..." and when I reached the end of your text all I can say now is Thank you! (I'm going to think I'm too cheap.. ;-) )
DW good luck and have a look at that thread, it could help for other times...
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34600709
corinne

Obviously, dreamweaver has been taken for a ride, but she obviously has a very different sense of location than the average Parisian:

- I know this is personal, but to me rue d'Aligre is no "dodgy neighborhood". dreamweaver, if you want, I can walk you through real "dodgy neighborhoods" in Paris! As a matter of fact, judging by the prices of real estate, this neighborhood is quite sought after.

- You describe Lognes as being "closer to Disney". Firstly, what a criterion ! And secondly, it is not closer, it is IN Disneyland Paris. So, if DIsneyland is your idea of perfect vacation surroundings, why not, but then, don't complain about the noise and the fact that actual people live in the neighborhood.

You are absolutely right not to be happy about the towel and drawer business - even though, at the end of the day, it's the only complaint that really holds: the internet/cable problem was only due to technical incompetence and was solved, and the linen issue, regrettable though it is, was only temporary. We are all the same, including myself of course: you always arrive at a vacation rental full of expectations, then you experience a few hiccups to start with, and there starts the psychological snowball effect, you feel everything is going from bad to worse, and you have one obsession: getting out of that rat hole. I am familiar with the feeling myself, but one or two days' cooling period normally put things in a better perspective and you suddenly realize, that, bingo, you're on vacation with a whole city/neighborhood to explore, so overreaction should be frowned upon. Apparently, the Place de Furstemberg apartment was a real ordeal, but yours was only disappointing and, if you look coolly at it, it wasn't the end of the world.

And, OK, let's be blatantly biased and non PC: in general, I am amazed by the quantity of posts in this forum related to Hôtel this over Hôtel that. People tend to over prepare and get absolutely monomaniac about the size of bathrooms, the wallpaper, the hair dryer. Focus, people, focus: Paris is no golf resort, are you going to spend your vacation in your hotel room/rental apartment ? What are you here for actually?

>The agency has agreed to refund commission monies for the nights we didn't stay in the apartment,...<

Good for them, D.

I've never rented an apartment in Paris. I'm not quite sure if I understand.

Did you have to pay for the whole stay upfront?

Is that the industry standard?

As someone else (ira?) pointed out, it seems rather outrageous to have to pay more for than one night's "penalty."

111op, when I have rented apartments in Paris, Rome and London, I have had to pay the entire rent up front. I believe this is the norm for short term vacation apartment rentals.

<<fairly good service, as european hotels go>>

That one little snippet of phrasing leads me to believe that maybe you have preconceived notions about things European, which in turn may have affected your experience.

It does sound as if the place was kind of a dump, and the owner irresponsible. But 140€ a night for an apartment for four is not much. And you have only yourself to blame for not liking the neighborhood - there are scads of resources available to check out the neighborhood, right down to the very building and street the apartment is on! Still, I think the owner should have reimbursed some of your money - maybe not all as he was left with an unrentable apartment for the remainder of the week, but certainly most of it given the condition it was in.

Now, why is your expectation of service at European hotels so low? That certainly hasn't been my experience at all.

Thanks Nikki.

It seems like a risky proposition, but I guess it tends to be cheaper than getting a hotel.

a link that could be very useful to have a look around
http://www.pagesjaunes.fr/pj.cgi?lang=en
on the right on "discover" section choose the city you want to see and then put the address
you can see a whole street with its buildings as if you were standing there.
I'm still waiting for Dijon views!!>

StCirq,

Well, this is what I love best about forums: you try to post an honest account that will be helpful to others, and there will always be someone who picks at one phrase. Since you asked: I've lived here 11 years, and my stays at European hotels have largely been slightly inferior to stays at stateside hotels in terms of amenities and service for hotels that are rated the same number of stars or diamonds.

At the hotel in Lognes, a 3 star supposedly, we had four complete sets of towels on check in, and asked for a couple of extra bath towels (my daughter and I both have long hair, hence the need for extra towels). We got the extra towels, but the next day when the maid cleaned, we had all 6 bath towels, but only two hand towels. The next day, 6 baths, no hand towels. The entire time we were there (5 nights) we never were given clean coffee cups, we had to rinse them out ourselves, and the beer glass that my husband brought to the room from the bar was never removed. The toilet room light burned out on day 3, and was never fixed, despite repeated calls to the desk.

I've never had an experience like that in a 3 star hotel (or even a 2 star) in the States. Just my experience, and my opinion FWIW. I do understand that the star and diamond rating systems are not foolproof, and may be different depending on the continent.

This is not to say that all of my European hotel experiences have been bad, or even not so good. As I said earlier, our favorite place to go is a family run hotel in Austria, which ought to be a 4 star, but I'm not sure what it is, or if it's even rated. The service is exemplary, the food is incredible, and there's never a "hair out of place" so to speak.

Having said all that, I certainly did not have "preconceived notions" about this apartment. It was an apartment, not a hotel. Why should my european hotel experiences have anything to do with what I expect from a vacation rental?

And, to Mr. Vandalay, we well know what a dodgy neighboorhood looks like, I've lived in them myself, and so has my husband, in Cleveland. If he's uncomfortable in a place, I know its not good. And yes, it's personal opinion, I'm not trying to bash anybody. And truly, I don't care about the wallpaper, size of the bathrooms (but I must say, there was no electrical outlet in the bathroom of the apartment, so how was one supposed to use a hair dryer anyway?! ), I just care that things are clean, well kept, in working order, and I feel safe with my kids there. That's all.

Yes, the other rental was worse, and I feel for her/them; but it doesn't make me feel any better about my experience.

Being "closer to Disney" was not a CRITERION, anyway. It was a locational reference for those reading the post. The only reason we went there, was that at 2:30 a.m. on the night in the apartment when we couldn't sleep, I was on the internet looking for other accomodations, and the easiest thing was to go back to the hotel that I had originally looked at in the first place. What's wrong with being closer to Disney? I have two kids, after all, and we planned to go there. And it didn't seem like it was "in Disney" to me. That would be the overpriced "Disney hotels" in Marne le Vallee (sp?). Our Metro stop was Torcy, 3 (fairly long) stops (I think) away from Disney. Sheesh.

For now, I think I'll not visit the forum anymore, because what I see (not so much in this thread, but others, like the one about smoking on planes that I peeked into today) is a lot of people who think it's okay to write things in a forum situation that polite people would never actually say to someone in person. I know this is NOT EVERYONE, or even most people, so please don't jump down my throat about what I just said. Although, since I'm not going to come back here to look at what anybody says anymore, I guess it won't matter. I'll deactivate my user id, and stay out of the forums.

Again, I do thank the supportive ones for their replies. Caio.

well, I think it was a good idea to complain to the agency about certain things to see what they would do, as you felt so strongly about it. They did refund something, so it was worth it, and the owner will be put on guard.

My comments were not meant to be critical or dismissive, but realistic based on quite a few years of experience with Parisian vacation rental apartments and what the norms are and what you get for your money (as well as the city in genearl).

One of the disadvantages to vacation rental apts is just this -- you do have to prepay, it is usually for a large amount because of long stays, and you do that sight unseen (mostly, unless you've been there before). The problem is when some people what hotel-like conveniences and conditions, but for apartments. I'm not referring to you, dreamweaver, but others who think it can be like a hotel where you don't pay until you leave, or can just get your money back if you don't like it. It's not a hotel, so you can't just leave with one night's penalty. They can't re-rent vacation apts on the spot as easily as hotel rooms.

As for the linens, they wouldn't be the dealbreaker for me (although I would complain), as they were not included with the apts I rented. That's another thing, people often want hotel-like services but in an apartment. Now, I did pay a small fee for a linen service with mine (which was an option by the owner), and they provided very decent towels/sheets once a week. You do expect a lot more services the more expensive places are, that's just natural (I sure would expect it if I were paying $300 a night).

The location has been discussed, you just have to research those. However, what I don't think some folks above understand is that 140 euro is NOT a lot of money for this size of apartment within the world of Parisian vacation rentals; it is a very low price. I viewed it online and wouldn't have booked it myself because there wasn't much information, however, I know which one it was. This was a 950 SF, 3 bedroom apt! The price alone should have been a warning, 140 euro is possible for a decent studio in Paris (1 BR if you are lucky or it's very small or not in prime area). That is just way too low to get a good 3 BR apt of that size. At least, I've never seen one and I've probably viewed hundreds. I've paid that for a studio to 1 BR in a good area (without any special deluxe amenities like free internet, or even washer/dryer).

The apts people are praising about being so wonderful and how this wasn't the norm are things like Parisperfect -- which only has two apts less than $300 A NIGHT, and their 1 BR of only 400 SF is $251 a night. So, I do think this is a problem when people may be inexperienced and don't realize you can't get a nice 3 BR vacation apt in Paris for that rate, and it's too bad one wasn't aware of. But I do think that the reason people say you sort of get what you pay for is because, as someone said, it is often true. If something is really cheap in comparison to others, you have to be cautious. Also, it helps to get referrals or comments from someone, even though it can be hard for things like this, unfortunately.

dreamweaver: You probably won't see this but . . .

>>For now, I think I'll not visit the forum anymore, because what I see (not so much in this thread, but others, like the one about smoking on planes that I peeked into today) is a lot of people who think it's okay to write things in a forum situation that polite people would never actually say to someone in person. I know this is NOT EVERYONE, or even most people, so please don't jump down my throat about what I just said. Although, since I'm not going to come back here to look at what anybody says anymore, I guess it won't matter. I'll deactivate my user id, and stay out of the forums.<<

How silly! Did you notice that thread is nearly FIVE YEARS OLD. It was topped by one of our resident trolls just to stir things up. To take ANY notice of it is just nutty.

Not one person on this thread said your complaints were totally uncalled for - but merely noted that SOME of those things are either not the owner's fault, understandable, or maybe not a big deal.

Dreamweaver, Wow, at the risk of hurting your feeling even further, isn't that a bit over reacting for the situation? I'm sorry you feel that way about this forum. No one was nasty one bit on your thread, just not everyone saw your situation in the same light as you did. If you expect all posters all the time to agree with everything you post, well I guess you won't be happy here. To my mind, that's not the purpose of a travel board. It's an *exchange* of ideas and information.