Paris tipping hotel maids
Jul 30th, 2015, 02:35 AM
#164
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"Didn't you mention CHF a few days ago when you told us how much you pay your cleaning lady?"
Yes, because I live in Switzerland, so does she, and that's the currency I pay her in. If I lived in France and she did too, I would say in euros what I paid her.
And the point I made still stands. Most of the Americans I know who travel in France do not wildly throw out 20% tips in the hopes of humiliating the staff, or because of arrogance, or even because they "only know how to have relationships with money". They tip 5 to 10%, which is close to or only slightly above what YOU said a French customer might choose to leave. And because it's likely that the visiting Americans might have more questions or need a little more of the server's time than a regular French patron, this kind of tipping pattern doesn't remotely deserve the derision, condescension, inaccurate stereotyping and ill-informed accusations against Americans coming from some posters.
Yes, because I live in Switzerland, so does she, and that's the currency I pay her in. If I lived in France and she did too, I would say in euros what I paid her.
And the point I made still stands. Most of the Americans I know who travel in France do not wildly throw out 20% tips in the hopes of humiliating the staff, or because of arrogance, or even because they "only know how to have relationships with money". They tip 5 to 10%, which is close to or only slightly above what YOU said a French customer might choose to leave. And because it's likely that the visiting Americans might have more questions or need a little more of the server's time than a regular French patron, this kind of tipping pattern doesn't remotely deserve the derision, condescension, inaccurate stereotyping and ill-informed accusations against Americans coming from some posters.
Jul 30th, 2015, 02:46 AM
#166
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". If I lived in France and she did too, I would say in euros what I paid her."
My point exactly. I live in France, I say it in €.
"this kind of tipping pattern doesn't remotely deserve the derision, condescension, inaccurate stereotyping and ill-informed accusations against Americans coming from some posters."
In which case address these posters, not me.
My point exactly. I live in France, I say it in €.
"this kind of tipping pattern doesn't remotely deserve the derision, condescension, inaccurate stereotyping and ill-informed accusations against Americans coming from some posters."
In which case address these posters, not me.
Jul 30th, 2015, 02:49 AM
#167
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"WT,, seriously.. so you couldn't just imagine dollar instead of euros.. the percentages would be the same.."
The tenor of PV's thread meant to me that she was suggesting all or most Americans carry that 20% tipping habit with them to France. And my experience (having lived in several European countries and spending time with a lot of American visitors and expats in them) is that they do NOT. In fact, I've never had dinner with Americans who tipped anything close to 20% in Europe. 10% was the max.
And as this thread was originally about chambermaids, if I leave 2 euros per day to the chambermaid cleaning a room that costs over 200 euros a night, we're talking about a ONE PERCENT OR LESS tip. That is hardly worth the hissy fit some posters here have been pitching, especially when the chambermaids are taking home about 1100 euros per month in one of Europe's most expensive cities.
The whole argument for NOT tipping has consistently been that chambermaids are paid a "Living Wage". I've yet to see anyone stand up and claim that 1100 euros a month actually constitutes a true living wage for an adult working full time in Paris. (IOW, not a student being partially or totally supported by Mum and Dad or someone trying to get their real career as an artist, actor or some other profession off the ground)
The tenor of PV's thread meant to me that she was suggesting all or most Americans carry that 20% tipping habit with them to France. And my experience (having lived in several European countries and spending time with a lot of American visitors and expats in them) is that they do NOT. In fact, I've never had dinner with Americans who tipped anything close to 20% in Europe. 10% was the max.
And as this thread was originally about chambermaids, if I leave 2 euros per day to the chambermaid cleaning a room that costs over 200 euros a night, we're talking about a ONE PERCENT OR LESS tip. That is hardly worth the hissy fit some posters here have been pitching, especially when the chambermaids are taking home about 1100 euros per month in one of Europe's most expensive cities.
The whole argument for NOT tipping has consistently been that chambermaids are paid a "Living Wage". I've yet to see anyone stand up and claim that 1100 euros a month actually constitutes a true living wage for an adult working full time in Paris. (IOW, not a student being partially or totally supported by Mum and Dad or someone trying to get their real career as an artist, actor or some other profession off the ground)
Jul 30th, 2015, 03:00 AM
#168
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" I've yet to see anyone stand up and claim that 1100 euros a month actually constitutes a true living wage for an adult working full time in Paris".
No, but you forget that people on low wages benefit from government help, from subsidised rent to free medical care - among many others.
No, but you forget that people on low wages benefit from government help, from subsidised rent to free medical care - among many others.
Jul 30th, 2015, 03:08 AM
#171
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IG Metall workers made a strike in Germany also to get more paid.
I can't imagine they had no merit either.
And pilots of Air France made quite a stike (is aleady last year ?).
They are also underpaid.
So am I actually.
I'll ask a tip when I post instead of giving tips for free.
I can't imagine they had no merit either.
And pilots of Air France made quite a stike (is aleady last year ?).
They are also underpaid.
So am I actually.
I'll ask a tip when I post instead of giving tips for free.
Jul 30th, 2015, 03:09 AM
#172
Somebody earning minimum wage in France receives housing subsidies, transportation subsidies, luncheon vouchers or a company canteen, free or low cost child care, medical coverage, extra cash payments for children (both for just raising them and also back-to-school bonues), tax credits for services, etc. That's what makes comparing wages meaningless among various countries.
I might even add that "unfortunately" the very wealthy in France receive a number of the same benefits when they probably should be paying for them. However, the government has been trying to reduce unneeded payments for the affluent.
I might even add that "unfortunately" the very wealthy in France receive a number of the same benefits when they probably should be paying for them. However, the government has been trying to reduce unneeded payments for the affluent.
Jul 30th, 2015, 03:16 AM
#173
<i>So you think the public protests by the chambermaids in Paris over their low wages had no merit?</i>
Have you studied the issue, WT, instead of just trying to throw in an unexplained snide remark? It would behoove us if you gave your analysis of subcontracted employment, illegal multiple job requirements and insanely accelerated working conditions. Would an extra tip solve these problems before the employees burn out or is industrial action more appropriate in 5-star hotels that abuse the rules while charging huge amounts for their rooms?
Have you studied the issue, WT, instead of just trying to throw in an unexplained snide remark? It would behoove us if you gave your analysis of subcontracted employment, illegal multiple job requirements and insanely accelerated working conditions. Would an extra tip solve these problems before the employees burn out or is industrial action more appropriate in 5-star hotels that abuse the rules while charging huge amounts for their rooms?
Jul 30th, 2015, 03:31 AM
#175
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kerouac wrote: "I think that the room cleaners we were talking about at the beginning of this thread have retired by now."
Only if your definition of retirement is starving to death for the want of €2 (or even 2€).
One test of how a habit of modest tipping or non-tipping is perceived by staff is to see how you are welcomed on a return visit. Herself and I dined at a restaurant, left no tip, returned three days later, and were welcomed by the server with a handshake and a big smile.
I agree that the test might not work with cleaning staff, although we always greet them when we encounter them.
Only if your definition of retirement is starving to death for the want of €2 (or even 2€).
One test of how a habit of modest tipping or non-tipping is perceived by staff is to see how you are welcomed on a return visit. Herself and I dined at a restaurant, left no tip, returned three days later, and were welcomed by the server with a handshake and a big smile.
I agree that the test might not work with cleaning staff, although we always greet them when we encounter them.
Jul 30th, 2015, 04:31 AM
#177
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<i>IG Metall workers made a strike in Germany also to get more paid.
I can't imagine they had no merit either. </i>
I can imagine it.
<i>Somebody earning minimum wage in France receives housing subsidies, transportation subsidies, luncheon vouchers or a company canteen, free or low cost child care, medical coverage, extra cash payments for children (both for just raising them and also back-to-school bonues), tax credits for services, etc.</i>
And the Roma make out like bandits. There are no poor in France. Got it.
I can't imagine they had no merit either. </i>
I can imagine it.
<i>Somebody earning minimum wage in France receives housing subsidies, transportation subsidies, luncheon vouchers or a company canteen, free or low cost child care, medical coverage, extra cash payments for children (both for just raising them and also back-to-school bonues), tax credits for services, etc.</i>
And the Roma make out like bandits. There are no poor in France. Got it.
Jul 30th, 2015, 04:44 AM
#179
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kerouac wrote: "I always just see [cleaning staff] in the hall or in the lift so I have no idea who cleans my room."
I trust that you greet them anyway.
Herself and I tend to use smaller hotels, so the chances are that the cleaning staff we meet are the ones who look after our room.
I trust that you greet them anyway.
Herself and I tend to use smaller hotels, so the chances are that the cleaning staff we meet are the ones who look after our room.
Jul 30th, 2015, 04:54 AM
#180
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'And the Roma make out like bandits. There are no poor in France. Got it.'
Roma who are bandits are illegally in France.
If you're born in France, or if you are legally in France you get free healthcare, free education, minimum allowance to live, low cost housing etc.
that is why our level of taxation is about 2/3rd of what we cost to our boss.
'IG Metall workers made a strike in Germany also to get more paid.
I can't imagine they had no merit either.
I can imagine it. '
Don't understand you. They work, don't they, so why not claim more money ?
There is another way to ensure that everybody gets money according to their needs and merits, that is called Communism.
And you don't need to tip anymore, everybody gets the same rights, same wages etc. You should try it.
Proof that it works is that nobody really goes on strike in communist countries/times.
Roma who are bandits are illegally in France.
If you're born in France, or if you are legally in France you get free healthcare, free education, minimum allowance to live, low cost housing etc.
that is why our level of taxation is about 2/3rd of what we cost to our boss.
'IG Metall workers made a strike in Germany also to get more paid.
I can't imagine they had no merit either.
I can imagine it. '
Don't understand you. They work, don't they, so why not claim more money ?
There is another way to ensure that everybody gets money according to their needs and merits, that is called Communism.
And you don't need to tip anymore, everybody gets the same rights, same wages etc. You should try it.
Proof that it works is that nobody really goes on strike in communist countries/times.
