Paris tipping hotel maids
Jul 28th, 2015, 09:02 AM
#101
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FWIW, in Europe, I tip like Europeans do, in tiny token amounts that actually do seem insulting to me--I mean, why bother? But I do it that way because that's the custom.
The idea that we Americans are "pro-tip" everywhere all the time is just another straw man excuse for Europeans to get their sad little digs in. They are the ones who refuse to understand American tipping, partly because it is weird--I can easily admit that--and partly because, again, Europeans in general are terrified of losing their station in life and something as inconsequential as a tip threatens them.
American society is fluid--less so than it used to be, but still much more so than in Europe. We are therefore eternal optimists, believing that we can work our way up the economic ladder, however unrealistic that belief may be. A tip is just money in the pocket, nothing more, nothing less. Today a waiter, tomorrow a billionaire.
European countries such as Germany and France have an ossified economic hierarchy: most everyone is comfortable, but it's well nigh impossible to move up the ladder, meaning everyone is obsessed with their relative station in life. It's the only one they'll ever have! so the idea of giving or getting a tip generates existential dread: am I condescending to you? Am I being condescended to??
The idea that we Americans are "pro-tip" everywhere all the time is just another straw man excuse for Europeans to get their sad little digs in. They are the ones who refuse to understand American tipping, partly because it is weird--I can easily admit that--and partly because, again, Europeans in general are terrified of losing their station in life and something as inconsequential as a tip threatens them.
American society is fluid--less so than it used to be, but still much more so than in Europe. We are therefore eternal optimists, believing that we can work our way up the economic ladder, however unrealistic that belief may be. A tip is just money in the pocket, nothing more, nothing less. Today a waiter, tomorrow a billionaire.
European countries such as Germany and France have an ossified economic hierarchy: most everyone is comfortable, but it's well nigh impossible to move up the ladder, meaning everyone is obsessed with their relative station in life. It's the only one they'll ever have! so the idea of giving or getting a tip generates existential dread: am I condescending to you? Am I being condescended to??
Jul 28th, 2015, 09:06 AM
#102
LOL cold!
Because I love tipping threads I emailed Butchart Gardens about their CC tip percentage suggestions - reply below:
<i>Thank you for your email regarding our mobile credit card authorization machine. Our machines are programed to let our guests choose a currency, verify the total, and then prompt them regarding a gratuity. Guests can choose no gratuity, an amount or a percentage. If a guest selects a percentage one can choose 10%, 15% or 20% or, select their own percentage.</i>
Because I love tipping threads I emailed Butchart Gardens about their CC tip percentage suggestions - reply below:
<i>Thank you for your email regarding our mobile credit card authorization machine. Our machines are programed to let our guests choose a currency, verify the total, and then prompt them regarding a gratuity. Guests can choose no gratuity, an amount or a percentage. If a guest selects a percentage one can choose 10%, 15% or 20% or, select their own percentage.</i>
Jul 28th, 2015, 09:20 AM
#103
Since we have not managed to bring the discussion to WW2, I am wondering what people think of sales tax (in the US, for example) that is added onto the price of something at the very end of the transaction rather than incorporating it and listing a net price for anything for sale. I think that this might be one of the obstacles preventing certain people from thinking that the price listed is the real price anywhere in the world.
Jul 28th, 2015, 09:28 AM
#105
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<i>I am wondering what people think of sales tax (in the US, for example) that is added onto the price of something at the very end of the transaction rather than incorporating it and listing a net price for anything for sale.</i>
I don't care one way or the other. The math isn't that hard to do if it matters to you. But the presence of sales tax vs VAT, which is the real issue stems primarily from historical (and current in some countries) problems with tax avoidance in European countries. Basically, VAT is easier to enforce.
I will offer that I think many consumer goods are too expensive in much/most of Europe. If switching to a VAT system also meant raising US prices to European levels, I will pass thank you.
I don't care one way or the other. The math isn't that hard to do if it matters to you. But the presence of sales tax vs VAT, which is the real issue stems primarily from historical (and current in some countries) problems with tax avoidance in European countries. Basically, VAT is easier to enforce.
I will offer that I think many consumer goods are too expensive in much/most of Europe. If switching to a VAT system also meant raising US prices to European levels, I will pass thank you.
Jul 28th, 2015, 09:38 AM
#106
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I asked my parents last night. They were miffed because they saw the price advertised as $30 odd.
The bill came.
$30 odd plus 12% tax plus 20%. It's the 32% that pisses most Europeans off.
Janis : I hope you're getting your monies worth. I know how much you love a good tipping thread. Trying my bestest this time.
"Honestly, it isn't that hard. Tip according to local customs. It isn't something that requires thought, understanding, or even agreement with the practice. You do it (or don't) because it is the local custom"
Kin ell.
That's twice in a year I've agreed with you TG. GTG possibly? In NY ? You buy, I'll tip!
The bill came.
$30 odd plus 12% tax plus 20%. It's the 32% that pisses most Europeans off.
Janis : I hope you're getting your monies worth. I know how much you love a good tipping thread. Trying my bestest this time.
"Honestly, it isn't that hard. Tip according to local customs. It isn't something that requires thought, understanding, or even agreement with the practice. You do it (or don't) because it is the local custom"
Kin ell.
That's twice in a year I've agreed with you TG. GTG possibly? In NY ? You buy, I'll tip!
Jul 28th, 2015, 09:47 AM
#107
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"tip in Japan"
"I used to work in Japan a lot, and their customs cannot be compared to Europe's. They're not the same. Europe is far less homogeneous than any Asian country."
The OP asked about tipping chambermaids in Paris, not somewhere else in Europe.
So customs are not the same in Japan as in Europe .........- and you follow their customs in not tipping. Why is it so difficult to follow French customs?
"I used to work in Japan a lot, and their customs cannot be compared to Europe's. They're not the same. Europe is far less homogeneous than any Asian country."
The OP asked about tipping chambermaids in Paris, not somewhere else in Europe.
So customs are not the same in Japan as in Europe .........- and you follow their customs in not tipping. Why is it so difficult to follow French customs?
Jul 28th, 2015, 10:17 AM
#109
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<i><font color=#555555>"So customs are not the same in Japan as in Europe .........- and you follow their customs in not tipping."</font></i>
In Japan, hospitality and appreciation are defined by the art of gift-giving. When I travelled there for business, I presented gifts to the people who took care of my personal needs. The gifts cost money. So it's a little more work, but I view the action and intent as one and the same.
There is NOTHING WRONG WITH SHOWING APPRECIATION for a job well done. I suppose some of you negative-ninny cheapos feel the way you do because no one ever showed appreciation for you. Well, IMO, you get what you give.
<i><font color=#555555>"Why is it so difficult to follow French customs?"</font></i>
I don't find following local customs difficult at all, no matter what country I'm in. However, I'm not a robot who follows some individual's el-cheapo demagoguery. I don't view life in black and white, all or nothing. If a service professional impresses me, I will often go out of my way to let her or him know. It really is that simple, when you are generous-minded.
In Japan, hospitality and appreciation are defined by the art of gift-giving. When I travelled there for business, I presented gifts to the people who took care of my personal needs. The gifts cost money. So it's a little more work, but I view the action and intent as one and the same.
There is NOTHING WRONG WITH SHOWING APPRECIATION for a job well done. I suppose some of you negative-ninny cheapos feel the way you do because no one ever showed appreciation for you. Well, IMO, you get what you give.
<i><font color=#555555>"Why is it so difficult to follow French customs?"</font></i>
I don't find following local customs difficult at all, no matter what country I'm in. However, I'm not a robot who follows some individual's el-cheapo demagoguery. I don't view life in black and white, all or nothing. If a service professional impresses me, I will often go out of my way to let her or him know. It really is that simple, when you are generous-minded.
Jul 28th, 2015, 10:34 AM
#112
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In a galaxy, far, far away.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...ratuities.html
There was a rebellion against the evil empire.
Alas it came to nothing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...ratuities.html
There was a rebellion against the evil empire.
Alas it came to nothing.
Jul 28th, 2015, 10:51 AM
#113
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<i>In a galaxy, far, far away.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...ratuities.html
There was a rebellion against the evil empire.
Alas it came to nothing.</i>
Journalists are prone to hyperbole and exaggeration. They also prefer anecdotes to data. There was never much of a rebellion, just a handful of scattered restaurants trying different ways of pricing their product. It has never approached a trend.
I would also note that several of the higher profile "no-tip" policies were about solving different problems. Thomas Keller adopted it at Per Se and French Laundry because he kept having his chefs ask to be moved to the waitstaff in order to make more money. Alinea moved toward a "no-tip" system when they switched to a ticketing system for meals, in itself an attempt to reduce no-shows. Aside from the occasional Japanese restaurant, the only "trend" would be that adopters of the Alinea system tend to charge all-in prices.
FWIW, I can only imagine the coronary many here would have if they were confronted with widespread adoption of a ticketing system for restaurants. Not that I think it will happen - there are only so many Alineas in the world - but it would be fun to watch the reaction here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...ratuities.html
There was a rebellion against the evil empire.
Alas it came to nothing.</i>
Journalists are prone to hyperbole and exaggeration. They also prefer anecdotes to data. There was never much of a rebellion, just a handful of scattered restaurants trying different ways of pricing their product. It has never approached a trend.
I would also note that several of the higher profile "no-tip" policies were about solving different problems. Thomas Keller adopted it at Per Se and French Laundry because he kept having his chefs ask to be moved to the waitstaff in order to make more money. Alinea moved toward a "no-tip" system when they switched to a ticketing system for meals, in itself an attempt to reduce no-shows. Aside from the occasional Japanese restaurant, the only "trend" would be that adopters of the Alinea system tend to charge all-in prices.
FWIW, I can only imagine the coronary many here would have if they were confronted with widespread adoption of a ticketing system for restaurants. Not that I think it will happen - there are only so many Alineas in the world - but it would be fun to watch the reaction here.
Jul 28th, 2015, 11:28 AM
#115
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<<Every single reference to the word "cheap" was intended for anyone advocating a "no-tip" attitude. "No-tip" to me means walking away from your table and leaving nothing, not one penny, which is being recommended by some posters on this thread.>>
The 'tip' or whatever term you like, is already included in the price of the food. So feel free to Tip on the Tip if it makes you feel better.
For me, one tip included in the price of the food is enough. It doesn't make me feel better to tip twice. I usually leave loose change to lighten my pocketbook.
The 'tip' or whatever term you like, is already included in the price of the food. So feel free to Tip on the Tip if it makes you feel better.
For me, one tip included in the price of the food is enough. It doesn't make me feel better to tip twice. I usually leave loose change to lighten my pocketbook.
Jul 28th, 2015, 12:09 PM
#116
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Wait a minute, I'm wrong. The problem is less that it's the law to break out the tax, as it is very difficult for national retailers to have inclusive pricing, owing to the variation between the provinces on exactly what tax is collected. These retailers, as well as the electorate, screamed bloody murder when the government once tried to mandate a 'tax-inclusive' pricing system in part of the country.
Back to the snipping about tipping....
Back to the snipping about tipping....
Jul 28th, 2015, 12:29 PM
#117
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I didn't say I always leave loose change. Many times I do not. It's only when I don't want a full pocket of change or my coin purse is getting too heavy on long days of sightseeing.
But, you will just have a smart aleck come back so it doesn't really matter in the end. I, and many, do what is customary and you don't. We get that it makes you feel better to not follow local customs and that you prefer to tip on a meal where it's already included.
You've shouted it from every French rooftop. We get it.
But, you will just have a smart aleck come back so it doesn't really matter in the end. I, and many, do what is customary and you don't. We get that it makes you feel better to not follow local customs and that you prefer to tip on a meal where it's already included.
You've shouted it from every French rooftop. We get it.
Jul 28th, 2015, 12:32 PM
#118
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Thanks Sue.
I will pass that information onto my parents.
We too visited Vancouver Island some years ago, Sooke was our favourite place.
Although we probably prefer some of the other States of America.
I will pass that information onto my parents.
We too visited Vancouver Island some years ago, Sooke was our favourite place.
Although we probably prefer some of the other States of America.
Jul 28th, 2015, 12:36 PM
#120
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"But you are absolutely incorrect in claiming that you're doing the correct - or expected - thing when you leave money for people who do not depend on tips for their living wages."
So if you have a neighbor who is in financial need -- or you see a Facebook article about someone who has lost their home due to fire -- or you win a lottery and decide to share some of the winnings with people you know who don't make a lot -- all of whom do not depend on tips for their living wages -- then you would NOT be "correct" in doing so? Kind of sad to think it's simply "wrong" to thank someone even monetarily for doing a good job and being nice to you, just because it's not what "everyone else" does.
So if you have a neighbor who is in financial need -- or you see a Facebook article about someone who has lost their home due to fire -- or you win a lottery and decide to share some of the winnings with people you know who don't make a lot -- all of whom do not depend on tips for their living wages -- then you would NOT be "correct" in doing so? Kind of sad to think it's simply "wrong" to thank someone even monetarily for doing a good job and being nice to you, just because it's not what "everyone else" does.
