Paris tipping hotel maids
Jul 27th, 2015, 07:31 PM
#81
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"Money discussions will always reveal someone's true nature. I can't bear the company of cheap bastards."
Of course, judging someone on how much money they let loose for things that are really none of anyone else's affair is okay.
Of course, judging someone on how much money they let loose for things that are really none of anyone else's affair is okay.
Jul 27th, 2015, 08:24 PM
#82
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Pariswat - I miss you! And w/o going back and rereading to quote I thought you said some very valuable things about tipping.
Please don't hold it against all Americans what is written here by a few.
I learned long ago not to tip in Europe. Service charge is already included as is Tax. Why tip on an already added Service Charge? Makes no sense. As said, which people seem to ignore, is that most (all?) services get paid vacations, free medical (mostly, sick leave. That only happens in large chain restaurants in the States. And probably not even not all of those benefits.
I leave loose change and / or round up. Period.
I was given a pointed lecture from a friend in London when I mentioned I left 5 pounds for a taxi driver. Oh, wow. I never did that again ! Not after her scathing words about how American's were teaching service people to tip and it was going to ruin it for the locals.
Bottom Line - as has been said, again and again....
When in Rome! No tipping in Europe. Leave change and / or round up if it makes you feel better. Remember that Service Charge is included and the employees get many benefits that our servers in the US do not get in most of the restaurants in the US.
Please don't hold it against all Americans what is written here by a few.
I learned long ago not to tip in Europe. Service charge is already included as is Tax. Why tip on an already added Service Charge? Makes no sense. As said, which people seem to ignore, is that most (all?) services get paid vacations, free medical (mostly, sick leave. That only happens in large chain restaurants in the States. And probably not even not all of those benefits.
I leave loose change and / or round up. Period.
I was given a pointed lecture from a friend in London when I mentioned I left 5 pounds for a taxi driver. Oh, wow. I never did that again ! Not after her scathing words about how American's were teaching service people to tip and it was going to ruin it for the locals.
Bottom Line - as has been said, again and again....
When in Rome! No tipping in Europe. Leave change and / or round up if it makes you feel better. Remember that Service Charge is included and the employees get many benefits that our servers in the US do not get in most of the restaurants in the US.
Jul 27th, 2015, 11:21 PM
#83
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Hello Elizzie !
Nice to read you too.
No risk that I turn anti-US, but reading some of the stuff here makes me understand why they are disliked/hated in some places..
I'll be eating with US friends tonight and tomorrow. Normal ones (meaning not arrogant tea party supporters). I'll ask if they tip - 2 of them live and Paris and have learnt our ways (they are smart enough to not judge that one way or the other is better, simply to adapat to local uses), others are well travelled people. I'll ask if they tip.
Myriam : dank u ! Ongeloofelijk hoe sommigen zich kunnen gedragen...
Mvg.
Nice to read you too.
No risk that I turn anti-US, but reading some of the stuff here makes me understand why they are disliked/hated in some places..
I'll be eating with US friends tonight and tomorrow. Normal ones (meaning not arrogant tea party supporters). I'll ask if they tip - 2 of them live and Paris and have learnt our ways (they are smart enough to not judge that one way or the other is better, simply to adapat to local uses), others are well travelled people. I'll ask if they tip.
Myriam : dank u ! Ongeloofelijk hoe sommigen zich kunnen gedragen...
Mvg.
Jul 28th, 2015, 04:02 AM
#85
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"Not after her scathing words about how American's were teaching service people to tip and it was going to ruin it for the locals."
One of my favorite excuses of why hard working people should not be rewarded for giving exceptional service. "Ruin it for the locals"? Ruining it for whom? Certainly not the locals who are working as service people -- getting a little more money surely wouldn't "ruin" their lives in any way. Oh, you mean "ruin it for those locals who resent having to part with any of their hard earned money". OK.
Whether people want to admit it or not, tips ARE expected more and more in many European countries these days. I've watched waiters in Venice chase down leaving people screaming how they never left anything "extra". I've heard Paris waiters say -- without being asked -- the service charge is included in the bill, but no tip is included if you liked my service." I have seen discretionary tip amounts added to bills throughout Europe. You can blame such things on American tourists if you like, or maybe you could simply accept that it is a changing world and even in Europe, servers actually LIKE being rewarded for doing a good job rather than be humiliated by being rewarded. But go ahead and live in your little dream worlds. When was the last time you saw a European waiter throw money back at a guest and scream "how dare you insult me?" . . .unless it was because the amount was so low.
One of my favorite excuses of why hard working people should not be rewarded for giving exceptional service. "Ruin it for the locals"? Ruining it for whom? Certainly not the locals who are working as service people -- getting a little more money surely wouldn't "ruin" their lives in any way. Oh, you mean "ruin it for those locals who resent having to part with any of their hard earned money". OK.
Whether people want to admit it or not, tips ARE expected more and more in many European countries these days. I've watched waiters in Venice chase down leaving people screaming how they never left anything "extra". I've heard Paris waiters say -- without being asked -- the service charge is included in the bill, but no tip is included if you liked my service." I have seen discretionary tip amounts added to bills throughout Europe. You can blame such things on American tourists if you like, or maybe you could simply accept that it is a changing world and even in Europe, servers actually LIKE being rewarded for doing a good job rather than be humiliated by being rewarded. But go ahead and live in your little dream worlds. When was the last time you saw a European waiter throw money back at a guest and scream "how dare you insult me?" . . .unless it was because the amount was so low.
Jul 28th, 2015, 04:39 AM
#86
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"When was the last time you saw a European waiter throw money back at a guest and scream "how dare you insult me?" . . .unless it was because the amount was so low."
Right after we moved to Brussels, my husband and a colleague went out to lunch at Lola, an upscale restaurant on the Sablon. Like the obedient little expats Europeans here lecture us to be, they left no tip. The waiter followed them out and asked where his tip was. They shrugged. He then said they were banned from the restaurant. (which was no big loss, but still...)
Also in Brussels: the restaurant Meo Patacca was around the corner from our apartment and we liked the place. The wine and food were good, the waiters friendly. Contrary to the instructions here, we did leave a tip (5 to 10%) after a meal. Instead of being treated with scorn (as apparently we should have been), we were welcomed warmly by name on each return visit and they always found a table for us, even when the place was packed and others were kept waiting. The staff must have been masochists, to enjoy such humiliation on a regular basis.
Right after we moved to Brussels, my husband and a colleague went out to lunch at Lola, an upscale restaurant on the Sablon. Like the obedient little expats Europeans here lecture us to be, they left no tip. The waiter followed them out and asked where his tip was. They shrugged. He then said they were banned from the restaurant. (which was no big loss, but still...)
Also in Brussels: the restaurant Meo Patacca was around the corner from our apartment and we liked the place. The wine and food were good, the waiters friendly. Contrary to the instructions here, we did leave a tip (5 to 10%) after a meal. Instead of being treated with scorn (as apparently we should have been), we were welcomed warmly by name on each return visit and they always found a table for us, even when the place was packed and others were kept waiting. The staff must have been masochists, to enjoy such humiliation on a regular basis.
Jul 28th, 2015, 04:54 AM
#88
<i>"Whether people want to admit it or not, tips ARE expected more and more in many European countries these days."</i>
I can't speak for other European countries, but in France the opposite is true. People are tipping less and less and certain professions that lived off tips have all but disappeared such as <I>chaisières</i> and <i>dames pipi</i> and <i>ouvreuses</i>.
A society that lives off tips is by definition both underdeveloped since it implies that wage scales are insufficient and unfair since some people with low salaries have no access to tips no matter how much they may deserve them.
I can't speak for other European countries, but in France the opposite is true. People are tipping less and less and certain professions that lived off tips have all but disappeared such as <I>chaisières</i> and <i>dames pipi</i> and <i>ouvreuses</i>.
A society that lives off tips is by definition both underdeveloped since it implies that wage scales are insufficient and unfair since some people with low salaries have no access to tips no matter how much they may deserve them.
Jul 28th, 2015, 04:55 AM
#89
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"Yes, I do. They are: Cheap, Cheap, Cheap"
That might be the Netherlands. When I worked for an agency in Ghent, which was Dutch-owned, the office joke was that their boss had "crocodile arms" -- that is, too short to reach his wallet.
That might be the Netherlands. When I worked for an agency in Ghent, which was Dutch-owned, the office joke was that their boss had "crocodile arms" -- that is, too short to reach his wallet.
Jul 28th, 2015, 05:09 AM
#92
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"Tourists in New York City are famous for over-tipping taxi drivers. Why should I care? I'm delighted the taxi driver has an opportunity to make a little extra off of the folks who simply visit for a day or two."
Ah, but NYFoodSnob, you're not playing the game right. According to some here, you should resent that that taxi driver might actually feel rewarded for being friendly and efficient and meanwhile you're "spoiling" if for all the other people who want to keep taxi drivers in a class well below themselves so they don't want them to "expect" tips! Besides, you're "humiliating" him for pointing out that you have more money that he has! (In case his IQ was so low he couldn't figure that out on his own when you got into his taxi -- or a waiter who couldn't figure that out when you're eating in his $100 euro a person restaurant, something he's never been able to do in his life.)
Ah, but NYFoodSnob, you're not playing the game right. According to some here, you should resent that that taxi driver might actually feel rewarded for being friendly and efficient and meanwhile you're "spoiling" if for all the other people who want to keep taxi drivers in a class well below themselves so they don't want them to "expect" tips! Besides, you're "humiliating" him for pointing out that you have more money that he has! (In case his IQ was so low he couldn't figure that out on his own when you got into his taxi -- or a waiter who couldn't figure that out when you're eating in his $100 euro a person restaurant, something he's never been able to do in his life.)
Jul 28th, 2015, 06:07 AM
#93
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<i>Has anyone mentioned WW2 yet?</i>
BigRuss came pretty close. To be fair, though, he was responding to a lot of utterly stupid anti-American cliches.
Honestly, it isn't that hard. Tip according to local customs. It isn't something that requires thought, understanding, or even agreement with the practice. You do it (or don't) because it is the local custom.
That being said, I think there is a pretty dangerous tendency among many, including many of the Europeans and Europhiles on this thread, to assume that Europe is monolithic. For example, someone said that "in Europe" you don't tip. Well, Europe is a big place and many/most locals certainly do tip in some countries and in some instances.
BigRuss came pretty close. To be fair, though, he was responding to a lot of utterly stupid anti-American cliches.
Honestly, it isn't that hard. Tip according to local customs. It isn't something that requires thought, understanding, or even agreement with the practice. You do it (or don't) because it is the local custom.
That being said, I think there is a pretty dangerous tendency among many, including many of the Europeans and Europhiles on this thread, to assume that Europe is monolithic. For example, someone said that "in Europe" you don't tip. Well, Europe is a big place and many/most locals certainly do tip in some countries and in some instances.
Jul 28th, 2015, 06:18 AM
#94
<i>kerouac, but surely you aren't talking about restaurants. I'd suggest if you don't realize that more and more servers in French restaurants (particularly in Paris) aren't EXPECTING tips these days, I think you're living in La-La land.</i>
Actually there have been a number of articles in the French press about waiters saying that they are receiving only about half as much in tips as 3 or 4 years ago.
Actually there have been a number of articles in the French press about waiters saying that they are receiving only about half as much in tips as 3 or 4 years ago.
Jul 28th, 2015, 06:27 AM
#96
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>>Actually there have been a number of articles in the French press about waiters saying that they are receiving only about half as much in tips as 3 or 4 years ago.<<
Ah, then tourism from Germany and the UK to France must be picking up.
>>I'm waiting for some ignorant American to point out that, if it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German. Just wait...I know it's coming.<<
I guess you don't see the irony in your being the one to bring it up first?
Ah, then tourism from Germany and the UK to France must be picking up.
>>I'm waiting for some ignorant American to point out that, if it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German. Just wait...I know it's coming.<<
I guess you don't see the irony in your being the one to bring it up first?
Jul 28th, 2015, 08:18 AM
#98
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<i><font color=#555555>"who's arguing pro-tips"</font></i>
I don't like the process of tipping. I find it terribly inconvenient, and as I've said before, tacky. I wish all businesses would end the practice and incorporate those percentages into the final price. On tip articles in the press, I've been blogging about this for many years. Try living in a New York City Co-Op if you hate tipping.
But I also know I don't have the power to force all service businesses to restructure their finances. And a single person or a group of objectors, no matter how loud, angry, or unhappy, cannot force any change either. Service employees who gain strictly by the greased palm are not interested in changing the status quo.
Tipping is an institution in certain services. All one can do is abstain or understand, accept, and display compassion for the dilemma. These threads make it very clear which side people are on.
Some businesses are changing. Culture tends to change at a very slow rate. One can find a few restaurants now that include a gratuity in the final bill, although they haven't killed the word gratuity. My hairdresser in NYC has a "no-tip" policy. He owns his business and states his policy on his price list.
Workers in service have little power, and any decision by a customer to abstain may have personal ramifications for the server. I happen to be sensitive to that. Given the way some service businesses are structured, the only incentive for certain workers to earn a higher income is through execution of exemplary service, rewarded via gratuity. Like it or not, that's reality.
I don't like the process of tipping. I find it terribly inconvenient, and as I've said before, tacky. I wish all businesses would end the practice and incorporate those percentages into the final price. On tip articles in the press, I've been blogging about this for many years. Try living in a New York City Co-Op if you hate tipping.
But I also know I don't have the power to force all service businesses to restructure their finances. And a single person or a group of objectors, no matter how loud, angry, or unhappy, cannot force any change either. Service employees who gain strictly by the greased palm are not interested in changing the status quo.
Tipping is an institution in certain services. All one can do is abstain or understand, accept, and display compassion for the dilemma. These threads make it very clear which side people are on.
Some businesses are changing. Culture tends to change at a very slow rate. One can find a few restaurants now that include a gratuity in the final bill, although they haven't killed the word gratuity. My hairdresser in NYC has a "no-tip" policy. He owns his business and states his policy on his price list.
Workers in service have little power, and any decision by a customer to abstain may have personal ramifications for the server. I happen to be sensitive to that. Given the way some service businesses are structured, the only incentive for certain workers to earn a higher income is through execution of exemplary service, rewarded via gratuity. Like it or not, that's reality.
