PalenQ

Paris Cracks Down on Pied-à-Terre Rentals - NYTimes.com
Jul 6, 2010 ... To Address Its Housing Shortage, Paris Cracks Down on Pied-à-Terre Rentals. Benoit Tessier/Reuters. Many foreign owners in Paris use their ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/bu...al/07rent.html -

Interesting article recently in NYTimes about people buying a pied-a-terre flat only to use it themselves for a few weeks a year and then rent it out the rest of the time - often to tourists.

To quote the article however "Most of them don't realize that they are breaking the law...

Paris Mayor ordered an agency last year to warn property owners that renting out apartments for less than a year at a time violated French law. The move was to address the lack of affordable housing in the city center. Those who ignored the warning would be prosecuted, the mayor said."

OK - Parisians cannot find affordable housing for workers and fat cats buy up properties and convert them to luxury flats to use a few weeks and then to rent them out to fat cat tourists.

Well something is rotten in the City of Light and i applaud the mayor for sticking up for the victims of wealthy tourists.

What do you think? Should the interests of wealthy tourists be put before average Parisians, who may be being priced out of living in the city?

Suzanne2

I suppose if you were an owner of a Parisian apartment you might see things a little differently. Personally, I feel you should be entitled to do as you wish with what belongs to you.
However, I have no control over the law.

I recall reading a while back that none of the workers in Aspen, Co could afford to live there. I think NYC has a similar law.

doug_stallings

I'm with you. But we have a similar problem in NYC, where short-term apartment rentals were just made clearly and finally illegal.

However, the sentiment over in the U.S. forum regarding the same exact issue in NYC is decidedly in favor of the tourists.(Except for some of the New Yorkers who contribute and continually warn people against the myriad illegal weekly or daily apartment rentals available on VRBO or Craigslist or many other sites). And the hotel columnist for USA Today is also in favor of the tourists rather than the people of NYC.

Of course, you can't stop fat cats from buying up all the available apartments in central Paris and NOT renting them out ... not unlike what happens in NYC.

avalon

It's all a bunch of baloney. There are 5 cases that have not yet been resolved. They were reported by another agency. None of the rental agencies are concerned. Several friewnds have contacted various agencies ..VRBO, VIP,homeaway, perfectlyparis . and they have no concerns

avalon

The apartments tourists would be interested in are way out of reach , moneywise, .

Parisvf

It's more and more difficult for Parisians to find a flat at an affordable price, and therefore have to move in the surburb, especially with kids...
I don't think it's only a problem of Paris, but it seems to be the same in another great towns!
As for the wealthy tourists having the benefit of living in the center, it's better for me than luxury offices with no evening life in some districts!

PalenQ

Then you may have the Venicization of Paris - where virtually no locals live - at least in the city centre - kind of like central London and thus lose a bit of the vibrancy of local cafes, boulangeries, etc and only restaurants and flats appealing to wealth foreign tourists.

I think there is a huge loss there - in the character of a place - but i can also see the other point - was being purposefully more provocative than i really feel to get the debate going.

Christina

That article is a month old and there were several posts on it when it came out, I believe.

ziggypop

PalenQ, so if I save enough money to visit Paris I am a 'Fat Cat?' That is insulting and wrong. I understand your point but it also wrong to assume that everyone that invests in an apartment is a 'Fat Cat'. I own investment property and have the mortgage to prove it! Check out the real estate market in every highly populated city in the world and you will find out the problem of affordable housing is unanimous. Take the 'Fat Cat" tourist dollars out of the Paris economy and see what happens.

Suzanne2

I stayed in central London in February and watched parents walking their children to school as we sat at Paul having breakfast. We also took long walks in very residential neighborhoods. The same is true of Paris. Also there are real estate offices everywhere with flats for sale. We love to stop and browse the offerings in the windows.

PalenQ

I still support the Mayor of Paris in all his wisdom - i am sure he has thought of losing the fat cat tourist dollars in that widsom as well

And yes luxury flats are for fat cats. Period.

ira

Pal asks,

>What do you think? Should the interests of wealthy tourists be put before average Parisians, who may be being priced out of living in the city? <

Where is it written that anyone has a right to an apartment in Paris (or anywhere else outside a few countries ruled by Communist regimes).

How about all the wealthy foreigners who might buy an apt and live there year 'round?

Also, wealthy tourists contribute more to the economy than shop assistants and waitstaff.

PalenQ

Ira-in Paris the law is perfectly clear

<that renting out apartments for less than a year at a time violates French law.>

How about all the wealthy foreigners who might buy an apt and live there year 'round?>

well that is a different thing - they conform with Parisian law -but now you have fat cats buying up flats currently used for affordable housing - the demand driving the housing price up so locals can no longer afford to live there- and then they stay there perhaps a few weeks and the rent it out to fat cat tourists.

well most folks seem fine with that but i would rather see central Paris retain a Parisian atmosphere- the local cafes, street markets- Arab-run stores, etc which, using central London as a prime example- will go away as the local Parisians go away- leaving chic bistros perhaps and upscale restaurants

What would the Rue Mouffetard be without its street market and local boulangeries -without its locals living in flats above the ground-level restaurants.

OK you get a sterile place like central London where you are hard-pressed to find any Londoners it seems - no typical English cafes at all, etc. Just Starbucks and its ilk.

And fat cats will still come to Paris even without the pied-a-terre luxury flats.

Again i applaud the Mayor of Paris for taking these steps and helping to retain a Parisian and not, like London, a foreign feel in its center.

flanneruk

"I stayed in central London in February and watched parents walking their children to school as we sat "

You're talking about London, England.

PalQ's talking about London, Ontario.

PalenQ

the only school kids i've seen in central London are those from France and Germany - gobs and gobs of them

I would like to know where in central London you see parents walking kids to school - Trafalgar Sq - Picaddilly Circus? Leicester Sq? Covent Garden?

I think the person who saw this is considering central London to be more encompassing than what i am thinking

Nearly no Brits in central touristic London except those working in shops or restaurants.

Where is there a chippie in central London that tourists will run into- a greasy cafe like Roys'Rolls on Coronation Street- a South Asian run 'Corner Shop' - they do not exist like they do in the real parts of London

And that is what i wish central Paris will not become-a place where there are no regular cafes- no boulangeries, etc.

danon

"What would the Rue Mouffetard be without its street market and local boulangeries -without its locals living in flats above the ground-level restaurants. "

less crowded?

the street if full of tourists (and students).

Suzanne2

We were on Gloucester Road in London. So who lives in all of those flats on all of those squares? Judging from the cars we saw they must be fat cats indeed. The kids I saw were speaking the kings English. I cannot imagine too many people wanting to live at Covent Garden or any of the other places you mentioned. Sort of like living at Disneyland.

We stay in flats in Paris and trust me, thay are far from luxurious. I hope we can continue to enjoy staying in flats in the future.

If someone spends hard earned money to buy a flat in Paris why should they be forced to rent it out to a low income resident? Isn't that called rent control? I would think that would discourage any prospective buyers.

kerouac

A minimum of 20% of all housing in a French city is obliged by law to be devoted to social housing. Cities that do not conform pay a fine (for example Sarkozy's suburb of Neuilly-sur-Seine with just 2%). This pretty much ensures that there will always be people living in Paris.

ncounty

couldn't they have addressed this by having a certain amount of property provided centrally that IS rent controlled so that affordable housing is available?

The hotels will certainly profit from this. There will be less available affordable rentals for families touring in Paris. With decreased supply of places to stay, demand on hotels will rise and so will their prices. It will be less affordable for a non "fat cat" family to visit Paris.

The true "fat cats" will still buy their places and just keep them empty and for their use only so there will be less tourist dollars for the local economy. The middle class person who has a dream of having a flat in Paris that is only doable with rental income will be squeezed out.

cigalechanta

Here's the answer I got on my thread last month

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...is-rentals.cfm