I've just found out that unfortunately the Carte Orange is going to be phased out at the end of 2007, and replaced by the Navigo pass.

The Navigo is a card with a computer chip, and will be able to recharged just as a Carte Orange as a weekly or monthly pass, but unfortunately, in order to get it you have to either live or work in the Ile de France.

This will force tourists to use the Paris Visite pass, which is much more expensive. (26.65€ for 5 days as opposed to 16€ for a week)

Darn!!

aaaah, I kinda figured that gravy train would stop running soon! drat.

So I guess I better get my money's worth and go on another trip to Paris before the end of 2007?

It really is a shame!

Since one of our daughters is currently working in Paris, I'm hoping that we can use her address to have our Navigo cards mailed to us.

Once you have the card, getting it recharged shouldn't be a problem.

Just until this date, please continue to thank us : local workers and employers who pay extra transport taxes

This information is incorrect. You are working under the assumption that when the Carte Orange is phased out the existing fare structure will still be in place. The intent is to phase out ALL paper tickets and to allow tourists so have a type of temporary card. The details have not been worked out so give it time. I am sure the RATP will announce something a month or two prior to the change (whenever that may be). Until then its just pointless guesswork.

>>Just until this date, please continue to thank us : local workers and employers who pay extra transport taxes<

It's the same situation where I live (San Francisco), and I suspect every city in the world also. Hotel taxes paid by tourists also go into the subsidy "pot" to pay for public transporation.

Stu Dudley

Stu, hotel tax in France is 1 euro per person per night. A far cry from the heavy taxes in the US.

And actually in many cities hotel taxes do nothing to support local transportation. Many of them are earmarked only for special funds which generate more tourism, such as building new convention centers or marketing to attract still more tourists. Our local hotel taxes don't add a penny to the improvement or even maintenance of roads or anything else to do with transportation.

Sad news about the Carte Orange, which I only discovered last year to great advantage.

In theory, but not in actual fact, carte orange is supposedly only to be sold to residents of ile de France and every so often an RATP clerk makes a half hearted effort to enforce this reg.

The other problem here is that eu regs do not allow discrimination against citizens of any other eu country so in theory a reg could not be passed limiting this or that simply to French citizens without it being applied to citizens of all other eu countries but the poster is correct, it will have to play out.

After all when London went to oyster cards, a somewhat similar system, there are no restrictions on who can get an oyster card to pay for his or her fares.

Good grief, since when was gratitude - at least gratitude worthy of the name - a saleable commodity? Besides which, as the Beatles pointed out long ago, just 'cause she's got a ticket to ride, don't mean she's gonna care....

Strictly speaking, tourists need not feel forced to use the Paris Visite pass, which I agree is a terrible deal. They can buy tix as they go, and only for such transport as they actually need. Carnet of 10 tix is at time of writing € 10. 90,; a couple visiting Paris for 3 - 4 days (a not atypical duration) can probably get by with 3 carnets split between them, for an average of around € 16.5, the same as for a Carte Orange. As for 5 days, 2 carnets apiece would probably suffice - at just under € 22 for two, that still beats the Paris Visite.

But as MorganB points out, we're talking over a year from now, a little early to start wringing hands. And as xyz123 points out, things may well take on the look of London's Oyster card system, in which just about everybody wins.

I wouldn't bet very much that RATP follows in TfL's footsteps. After all, the Brits don't have a "specially priced" ticket aimed strictly at tourists.

I guess the best we can wish for is that the <i>Mobilis</i> card won't be retired at the same time. My guess is that it won't, since it's aimed at French people who come to Paris for a day, and uses the mag-stripe ticket similar to the <i>ticket 't'</i>. One can hope.

But how will this board continue without all the questions about what type of photo to use for the carte orange and how and where to get it taken?

&lt;&lt;In theory, but not in actual fact, carte orange is supposedly only to be sold to residents of ile de France &gt;&gt;

Where is this &quot;theory&quot; you are quoting? I wish people would stop just making things up and posting them as if they are fact. SOmeone a short time ago made some statement on here as if it were a fact that the Carte Orange says clearly that it is only for Parisians, and that wasn't true either. It doeesn't say that on it anywhere, and I've read the regulations in the original French on STIF and elsewhere, and none of them say anything like that. The Paris Tourist Office website discusses the Carte ORange right on its website, and surely they gave that some thought as tourists by definition are not local residents.

There seems to be some confusion between being a citizen and a resident that some people have in their posts, also. These are not synonymous terms, and citizenship has to do with a country, obviously, not a locality. YOu can be a citizen of a country and not even live in it, let alone be a French citizen and live in France nowhere near Paris.

So if they do phase as the regular Carte ORange and only allow chip Navigo cards, I think tourists can deal with it as transportation costs are not that high in Paris regardless of what you buy, even if you just buy regular single-use metro tickets. People spend too much time obsessing over this issue IMO, it's a trivial part of the cost of their vacation.

Christina...

Several years ago I e mailed RATP with the question regarding Carte Orange....the answer I received was that Carte Orange is intended for residents of ile de France because it is heavilly subsidized by citizens of that region...the operative word being intended....no they have never come out and said it is only for citizens of ile de France however it is interesting to note there is no mention of Carte Orange on the English language site....every so often people report some sniffy clerk refuses to sell a Carte Orange to a foreigner, especially an English speaking foreigner, but the usual remedy is to walk over to another clerk in another booth.....

I ran into the problem once when I wanted to buy a Mobilis ticket and some clerk tried to tell me I could only buy Paris Visite, which is as we know, a total rip off..I argued and argued and she reluctantly sold me one but muttered something under her breath.

So while you're right, I have seen nothing in writing prohibiting non residents of ile de France from buying carte orange, there seems to be some sort of encouragement to some clerks to steer foreigners from carte orange and mobilis....as I said whether it is a regulation or not doesn't really matter, for the most part people have little difficulty in obtaining Carte Orange whether residents of ile de France or not.

So it was &quot;intended&quot; for residents. Of course it was. So? Can anyone name any city's regular transportation only pass that WASN'T &quot;intended&quot; for residents rather than tourists. Of course not. Let's look at Vaparetto passes in Venice, or Oyster Cards in London, or Metro passes in New York. All are developed for residents, but all are available to tourists. There is nothing at all unique about Carte Orange. It's hard to imagine any city developing a special transportation only pass strictly &quot;intended&quot; for tourists.

I think it is just the perverse nature of the French &gt;

I think you can purchase a Carte Orange at a machine. How is the machine going to tell that you are not a &quot;local&quot;. If a metro police person checks your card later, I doubt if he/she will throw you off the metro or bus.

Also, Carnets are not that good for busses - I believe transfers are not allowed.

Regarding hotel tax subsidies - I was only referring to San Francisco, but I assumed that hotel taxes are used elsewhere (not everywhere). I get little benefit from the 19% VAT I pay in France, and I rarely get a (small) refund.

The bus pass I purchased in Rome this year didn't care where I was from.

Stu Dudley

Stu...

There are 2 parts to Carte Orange...one is the weekly or monthly ticket which yes you can buy at a machine....however

The ticket is not valid without the actual carte orange which is a photocard with your name and a unique number on it...upon buying the weekly (or monthly) ticket in the machine, you are required to put the number of the Carte Orange on the ticket which is what goes into the turnsttile.

If you are stopped by a ticket inspector and have the ticket without the photo card, the ticket will be confiscated and you will be fined something like &euro;40 or thereabouts for unauthorized transportation.

Thanks, xyz123

I've had the wallet &amp; photo ID card for about 5 years now, and have reused them many times.

Stu Dudley

By the way, if you get stopped by a <i>really</i> hardass inspector and the number of your photo card isn't written on the ticket, you may get fined and your ticket confiscated. The idea is that they want to be sure that a ticket isn't being used by more than one person - but the policy isn't enforced uniformly.