Paris and Ile-de-France -ready!
Mar 24th, 2004, 01:19 PM
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Paris and Ile-de-France -ready!
Well, my honey and I leave for eighteen days in Paris tomorrow. My third visit since 1978 and 1984, when I was a student and stayed only two nights each. It will be my honey's first trip to France. We are renting a studio apartment in the 7eme near rue Cler. I'll post the address if it turns out to be as good as I hope.
We plan not to eat out at all! It's a money as well as preference thing... I am a good cook and can make a far better meal for 5 euros than I can buy at a restaurant. I will enjoy shopping for the food every bit as much as I would eating in a restaurant. The markets sound fabulous! Can't wait to hit the Monoprix too! Also, we like parks, the outdoors, bird and people walking, so we will hit as many parks as possible, so picnic lunches will be l'ordre du jour. I found the Michelin Green Guide to Paris to be the best of the travel guides and will use it exclusively for Paris. For the Ile-de-France, just google the individual towns, you'll find everything you need. We will see the major sights in Paris, but not the science museums. Will stick mostly to the Louvre, Orsay, Invalides, Rodin, Cluny, Beaubourg, Cognacq-Jay, Nissim Camondo, Forney library, Hotel Soubise. Will skip Picasso, la Villette. Will do a neighborhood a day for eight days, and then return to our favorites when we have time later in the trip.
Sounds like a typical Paris trip. But we have enough time to take some nice side trips. We have the following planned, on different days: St Denis (1/2 day); Chantilly/Senlis; Ecouen (1/2 day); Meaux/Lagny-sur-Marne (1/2 day); Dourdan/Etampes/Chamarande; Sceaux (1/2 day); Chartres/Maintenon; and St Germain-en-Laye/Versailles, which we are actually visiting on a Monday, BECAUSE the chateau is closed, hoping to avoid the hordes and enjoy the gardens (which are open) in relative solitude... also interesting to note, there are regular buses between the two which accept cartes oranges and which take only 20 minutes, instead of the hour and a half it would take on a train. We will walkthroughtthe parks at Marly, Meudon and St Cloud too.
That's a lot of daytrips, I know, but I have it all organized and think we can do it. We really want to experience some of the smaller towns. The weather looks like it will cooperate... no rain in the forecast for the next ten days! Will file a report on return. Au revoir!
We plan not to eat out at all! It's a money as well as preference thing... I am a good cook and can make a far better meal for 5 euros than I can buy at a restaurant. I will enjoy shopping for the food every bit as much as I would eating in a restaurant. The markets sound fabulous! Can't wait to hit the Monoprix too! Also, we like parks, the outdoors, bird and people walking, so we will hit as many parks as possible, so picnic lunches will be l'ordre du jour. I found the Michelin Green Guide to Paris to be the best of the travel guides and will use it exclusively for Paris. For the Ile-de-France, just google the individual towns, you'll find everything you need. We will see the major sights in Paris, but not the science museums. Will stick mostly to the Louvre, Orsay, Invalides, Rodin, Cluny, Beaubourg, Cognacq-Jay, Nissim Camondo, Forney library, Hotel Soubise. Will skip Picasso, la Villette. Will do a neighborhood a day for eight days, and then return to our favorites when we have time later in the trip.
Sounds like a typical Paris trip. But we have enough time to take some nice side trips. We have the following planned, on different days: St Denis (1/2 day); Chantilly/Senlis; Ecouen (1/2 day); Meaux/Lagny-sur-Marne (1/2 day); Dourdan/Etampes/Chamarande; Sceaux (1/2 day); Chartres/Maintenon; and St Germain-en-Laye/Versailles, which we are actually visiting on a Monday, BECAUSE the chateau is closed, hoping to avoid the hordes and enjoy the gardens (which are open) in relative solitude... also interesting to note, there are regular buses between the two which accept cartes oranges and which take only 20 minutes, instead of the hour and a half it would take on a train. We will walkthroughtthe parks at Marly, Meudon and St Cloud too.
That's a lot of daytrips, I know, but I have it all organized and think we can do it. We really want to experience some of the smaller towns. The weather looks like it will cooperate... no rain in the forecast for the next ten days! Will file a report on return. Au revoir!
Mar 24th, 2004, 01:52 PM
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Sounds like you'll need to at least eat lunches out, if you're going to spend all day in a particular neigborhood. While in the Latin Quarter, you must try a chwarma...tons of meat, salad and even fries, all in a pita for 4 euro.
The markets are cute but the prices are high. Find a Monoprix as soon a possible to stock up on your milk and other staples.
If you can work the timing on your trip to St. Denis, right by the metro stop there is a huge "superwalmart" type of grocery/discount store. The prices are quite low, but then you have to get your purchases back to your flat.
The markets are cute but the prices are high. Find a Monoprix as soon a possible to stock up on your milk and other staples.
If you can work the timing on your trip to St. Denis, right by the metro stop there is a huge "superwalmart" type of grocery/discount store. The prices are quite low, but then you have to get your purchases back to your flat.
Mar 24th, 2004, 05:19 PM
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Just want to agree with Michael, especially as regards fish in the past couple of years. Prices at the markets are astronomical, yet there are bargains in restaurants. Perhaps it's that the restaurateurs get a good price for buying in bulk.
Etienne: I would seriously not expect to save a huge amount of money by buying food at supermarkets and preparing your own meals. I do a lot of that at my house in France and never find that I am saving much in the long run. With many staples, like coffee and tea and mayonnaise and mustard and sugar and whatnot, even if you buy the smallest amount possible, you'll only use half during your stay. I really can't think of a "meal" that one could prepare in Paris from storebought goods for 5 € - maybe an omelette. Don't mean to burst your bubble, just hoping to be helpful if you are seriously budgeting.
Etienne: I would seriously not expect to save a huge amount of money by buying food at supermarkets and preparing your own meals. I do a lot of that at my house in France and never find that I am saving much in the long run. With many staples, like coffee and tea and mayonnaise and mustard and sugar and whatnot, even if you buy the smallest amount possible, you'll only use half during your stay. I really can't think of a "meal" that one could prepare in Paris from storebought goods for 5 € - maybe an omelette. Don't mean to burst your bubble, just hoping to be helpful if you are seriously budgeting.
Mar 24th, 2004, 05:56 PM
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I don't find groceries in Paris to be that different from in the US, actually. At least for fresh produce. I don't think you can prepare any meal for 5 euro. There are some things in Paris that are cheaper than US (bread, for example) and some more. I think many restaurants give you very good value.
Don't expect some cosmic experience at Monoprix, it's just a general purpose low-price store.
Don't expect some cosmic experience at Monoprix, it's just a general purpose low-price store.
Mar 24th, 2004, 06:43 PM
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I'm looking forward to your trip report - in fact I'd love to receive a copy in my e-mail - especially if I miss your posting (they disappear so fast) [email protected]. I spent a month in Paris in 2001 and would love to go back with a different itinerary. I, too, stayed in a studio in the 7eme and thought the area was great. Sounds like you'll have a wonderful time.
Mar 24th, 2004, 07:00 PM
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Wait! You left out the Jacquemart-André Museum--don't miss it. If you have to substitute it for another, make that the Cognacq-Jay, which for us was underwhelming compared to the description in the guides we'd consulted.
Mar 24th, 2004, 10:37 PM
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Just a couple of remarks on the grocery issue...
My experience in France is that people don't look at Monoprix as a low-price store. It's expensive! Sometimes up to 50 centimes more than other stores for the same grocery item (a brand of organic bread that I sometimes buy is 2.79 at Monoprix, but only 2 euros at my local health-food store). When I first arrived in Paris I couldn't afford to shop at Monoprix. Still, many people shop there because it's convenient and open late, and because they have quite a wide range of goods. They're also good for fair-trade and organic produce, which you don't tend to find in the cheaper supermarkets.
However, if you want to save money on basic groceries, shop at Franprix - it's a lot cheaper. Franprix also has a good selection of inexpensive, surprisingly decent wine. The Champion supermarkets also tend to be cheaper than Monoprix.
My experience in France is that people don't look at Monoprix as a low-price store. It's expensive! Sometimes up to 50 centimes more than other stores for the same grocery item (a brand of organic bread that I sometimes buy is 2.79 at Monoprix, but only 2 euros at my local health-food store). When I first arrived in Paris I couldn't afford to shop at Monoprix. Still, many people shop there because it's convenient and open late, and because they have quite a wide range of goods. They're also good for fair-trade and organic produce, which you don't tend to find in the cheaper supermarkets.
However, if you want to save money on basic groceries, shop at Franprix - it's a lot cheaper. Franprix also has a good selection of inexpensive, surprisingly decent wine. The Champion supermarkets also tend to be cheaper than Monoprix.
Mar 25th, 2004, 11:16 AM
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Thanks for all the the terrific tips! I wish I had discovered this board sooner. Thanks especially for the tips on the Wal-marche at St-Denis, and for the info on Monoprix. I don't expect to be transported at Monoprix... I'm just a dime store diva, looking for bargains. And there is a Franprix in rue Cler, 5 minute walk from the studio.
As to the food preparation issues.... actually I do make a good omelette! We are ovo-lacto-vegetarians, so we pretty much live on bread, rice, cheese, eggs, legumes (in Paris it will be quick-cooking lentils and split peas), fresh fruit and veggies. No pre-packaged food for us! I am a very good grocery shopper and will not overpay for anything... believe me. The key rule is... buy food in season!!! It's always better and cheaper. Bananas are always a good option when all else fails. To ensure we get what we need for our picnics, our neighborhood tours are very much built around the market days in each neighborhoods. They are held on different days in different neighborhoods, but I have the complete list of where and when, as well as when the market days are in the towns in the Ile-de-France. I have spent months researching this and believe sincerely that I have it figured out as much as possible.
I am particularly excited about some of the Ile-de-France towns that never get mentioned on this board, such as Meaux and Etampes. I know we could stay in Paris the whole time and still not see everything there, but we like... make that love... the change of pace in the small towns too, even if there are no overwhelming sights. We are birdwatchers, and you pretty much have to get out of the city to see the rarer sorts. Hence all the parks and small towns. And you can recover from the crowds of tourists in the better known places.
If you'd like a copy of my trip report, just email your request to [email protected].
As to the food preparation issues.... actually I do make a good omelette! We are ovo-lacto-vegetarians, so we pretty much live on bread, rice, cheese, eggs, legumes (in Paris it will be quick-cooking lentils and split peas), fresh fruit and veggies. No pre-packaged food for us! I am a very good grocery shopper and will not overpay for anything... believe me. The key rule is... buy food in season!!! It's always better and cheaper. Bananas are always a good option when all else fails. To ensure we get what we need for our picnics, our neighborhood tours are very much built around the market days in each neighborhoods. They are held on different days in different neighborhoods, but I have the complete list of where and when, as well as when the market days are in the towns in the Ile-de-France. I have spent months researching this and believe sincerely that I have it figured out as much as possible.
I am particularly excited about some of the Ile-de-France towns that never get mentioned on this board, such as Meaux and Etampes. I know we could stay in Paris the whole time and still not see everything there, but we like... make that love... the change of pace in the small towns too, even if there are no overwhelming sights. We are birdwatchers, and you pretty much have to get out of the city to see the rarer sorts. Hence all the parks and small towns. And you can recover from the crowds of tourists in the better known places.
If you'd like a copy of my trip report, just email your request to [email protected].
Mar 25th, 2004, 12:01 PM
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A couple of comments. Your trip sounds fairly frantic. Sit in a cafe, for heavens sake! At 5 euro a cup of coffee, you'll need to rent your chair for a little while. It may be too early in the spring but have you considered the gardens on the site of the old Citroen plant in the 15th?
The food hall in the Bon Marché is wonderful. It may exceed your budget, but just to walk through and drool is great. Finally, rue Cler is not at all cheap. The market at Richard Lenoir (Sunday only) is cheap.
The food hall in the Bon Marché is wonderful. It may exceed your budget, but just to walk through and drool is great. Finally, rue Cler is not at all cheap. The market at Richard Lenoir (Sunday only) is cheap.
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